The Apostate Church is all about Humanism

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Christian apostasy embraces a really wide spectrum of heresies. Humanism is only one of them.

 

[HappyHope]

Sorry about your childhood

Aww, no worries. It seriously could have been worse. Blessings!

 

[HappyHope]

Christian apostasy embraces a really wide spectrum of heresies. Humanism is only one of them.

Yeah, I'm new to this discovery. I latched on to humanism but after more research, I'm seeing how humanism isn't the only thing.

 

[HappyHope]

Pastor Begg has some excellent points to help us aim for Christ-shaped ministries and avoid idolatry. He makes it simple for us by telling us to keep the Gospel the focus. Keep Christ and the message of Christ center so we can be in the best position to be more transformed to Christ.

****Also, he quotes an unbelieving journalist who seems to have more of an idea what is going on in the church these days than we do. Interesting stuff.

 

[HappyHope]

Here is something I thought to recently on this subject of how many church have gotten away from a Christ-shaped ministry. I once took a church leadership course (Fall 2019) that focused on finding a vision for one's church or one's Christian organization. It was part of a cognate and not exactly up my alley but I had to pass it to complete my degree.

The material insisted lead pastors seek the Holy Spirit to find their own ministry niche and ministry motto for their church. The textbooks insisted that all congregants and lesser church leaders fall in line with the lead pastor's preferred ministry niche or else go find another church with a niche that suits themselves best.

At the time, I found it odd that the church had come to this but I tried not to think about it much. After all, I'm not a pastor and have never desired to be so. So, I didn't consider it much my business how much the church had "progressed" here.

Now I wonder if such teachings have given church leaders carte blanche to move away from Christ-shaped ministry. Hurts the heart to think about. Lord be with us if this is part of the problem.

2 Timothy 4:3 seems related to what I'm talking about. People flock to listen to what they want to hear these days. Perhaps in part they are being encouraged to do so?
**Edited to correct cognate instead of cognitive.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Here is something I thought to recently on this subject of how many church have gotten away from a Christ-shaped ministry. I once took a church leadership course (Fall 2019) that focused on finding a vision for one's church or one's Christian organization. It was part of a cognitive and not exactly up my alley but I had to pass it to complete my degree.

The material insisted lead pastors seek the Holy Spirit to find their own ministry niche and ministry motto for their church. The textbooks insisted that all congregants and lesser church leaders fall in line with the lead pastor's preferred ministry niche or else go find another church with a niche that suits themselves best.

At the time, I found it odd that the church had come to this but I tried not to think about it much. After all, I'm not a pastor and have never desired to be so. So, I didn't consider it much my business how much the church had "progressed" here.

Now I wonder if such teachings have given church leaders carte blanche to move away from Christ-shaped ministry. Hurts the heart to think about. Lord be with us if this is part of the problem.

2 Timothy 4:3 seems related to what I'm talking about. People flock to listen to what they want to hear these days. Perhaps in part they are being encouraged to do so?

I once attended a church service in which the pastor demanded complete and unquestioning loyalty from his congregation. He said, "As Moses was to Israel, so I am to you. Every word that comes from my mouth must be obeyed without question." To say the least, i was shocked and horrified, but afterward my hosts expressed surprise at my reaction. To them, it was perfectly accepted.

 

[HappyHope]

I once attended a church service in which the pastor demanded complete and unquestioning loyalty from his congregation. He said, "As Moses was to Israel, so I am to you. Every word that comes from my mouth must be obeyed without question." To say the least, i was shocked and horrified, but afterward my hosts expressed surprise at my reaction. To them, it was perfectly accepted.

I'm not anti-heirarchy concerning church leadership but that sounds nuts. I hate that you had to see that.

 

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I'm not anti-heirarchy concerning church leadership but that sounds nuts. I hate that you had to see that.

Fortunately, I realized that although the church was part of a very large denomination, it was not at all representative of that denomination.

 

[HappyHope]

Fortunately, I realized that although the church was part of a very large denomination, it was not at all representative of that denomination.

Yeah, my husband was shocked at the lack of uniformity in a denomination he once adored. His most influential mentor, an ordained pastor in said denomination, retired and moved but chose not to attend the church of said denomination in his new town because he disagreed with that church somehow. This floored my hubby because he had already determined our family would always attend that denomination wherever we moved.

I don't know how much independence local churches should have or how much they should be influenced by their denomination. It could go good or bad either way. Local churches could go rogue or denomination could embrace heresy. My only hope now for church uniformity is that they all bow to Christ and serve Him as He calls. I fear this is getting increasingly rare. Maybe not the outward service but the bowing part doesn't seem that common anymore.

 

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Yeah, my husband was shocked at the lack of uniformity in a denomination he once adored. His most influential mentor, an ordained pastor in said denomination, retired and moved but chose not to attend the church of said denomination in his new town because he disagreed with that church somehow. This floored my hubby because he had already determined our family would always attend that denomination wherever we moved.

I don't know how much independence local churches should have or how much they should be influenced by their denomination. It could go good or bad either way. Local churches could go rogue or denomination could embrace heresy. My only hope now for church uniformity is that they all bow to Christ and serve Him as He calls. I fear this is getting increasingly rare. Maybe not the outward service but the bowing part doesn't seem that common anymore.

Sadly, I agree with you. It is becoming quite rare in my neck of the woods.

 

[HappyHope]

I just watched a YouTube video that helped me understand this topic. I’d post it but I can’t find it again...

An Australian minister kind of blew me away with his analysis. He hit all the main points I associate with both the church and the apostasy and then some.

• Suffering for Christ makes us ashamed but it shouldn’t so expect rejection
• Many church-goers want comfort & Jesus but it is becoming a choice between comfort or Jesus
• Suffering is a gold refinement process many reject for comfort
• Christians are diluting the gospel message for the comfort of listeners
• Selfie generation are lovers of self
• West is raising the most anxious and depressed generation because of so much inward searching for peace/comfort/identity...
• Identify obsessions are everywhere
• There is no point in logically arguing for the gospel so much because if arguments worked we would have won long ago. We are well passed logic. It takes spiritual weapons now.
• Truth is no long his truth/ her truth/ or your truth...whatever.
• Truth is now irrelevant because people say “Well, that may be true but I feel....” People don’t logically reject truth. They just don’t care what is true. It’s about feelings now. ((At least a certain generation I assume))

Plus, he broke apart Romans beautifully.

So humanism and whatever self-worship is in part make up the western church these days. Gonna keep searching and praying about this.

 

[HappyHope]

My interest stems from a belief to that Philadelphian classified church members are being pushed out of the increasing number of Laodicean-turning churches. Not sure how clearly church leaders see this looking from the top down and not the bottom up. Just FYI.

 

[HappyHope]

Found the video. Not sure why its title and thumbnail are so weird.

 

[HappyHope]

Ok, I just got done trying to find comfort in snacking on Corn Pops but ended up weeping over them because I have something to say that I've been putting off. I even tried saying it in a quieter way in a smaller venue earlier today but it wasn't good enough. I'm ready to bite another barrel of rejection though. This so wasn't on my agenda today. I don't get excited doing this. Sigh.

All 7 churches in Revelation are in fact part of the Body of Christ and sealed unto salvation. Amen. Go Jesus! But their rewards are based on works. In sum, the current Laodicean dominate church is saved but they will not be spared persecution in the Trib obviously...unless they change. That is probably the gold and silver they need to be ready to purchase for themselves.

Philadelphians are being pushed out of churches because they are closer to Jesus in that they refuse to take in/accept Laodicean ways. It comes at a cost either way. They are being forced to make a choice in the current modern church age. It makes them look bad either way. Assimilate or go.

I'm not sure how clearly church leaders can see it. I used to think Christian leaders were compromised but maybe not. Some are solid. They might just be surrounded by Philadelphians or super positive Laodiceans that tell them what they want to hear. Or way too comfortable of a theology?

Love the church! Don't get me wrong. Peace.

 

[HappyHope]

Enlightening. I can see this being the case regarding Laodiceans and riches. Not 100 percent sold on the riches only meaning spiritual riches but could be.

Love this pastor's insightful course correction tips.

Good to remind ourselves we are still filthy, rotten sinners. Yes, we can be saved. Yes, we can be cleansed, but the fact remains that we are filthy, rotten sinners and our righteousness is like filthy rags. Jesus has to see this everyday. He was brutally slaughtered because of this very daily fact. True Story. I try to recognize this sometimes several times a day. It hurts, but it is supposed to. We ain't that glamorous. Praise him for his mercies!

One point I might amend is to put God first. Not works first. Not the church first. Not your family first. Not your ministry stats. Putting God first lets the rest fall into place. So don't put self/people first. Thats a Laodicean' trap. (Hugs in Christ!)

***Back to the meaning of riches thing. So, I came across this parable in Luke 12 this morning:
16And he told them a parable, saying, “The land of a rich man produced plentifully,

17and he thought to himself, ‘What shall I do, for I have nowhere to store my crops?’

18And he said, ‘I will do this: I will tear down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods.

19And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.”’

20But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul is required of you, and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’

21So is the one who lays up treasure for himself and is not rich toward God.”

Jesus links both the greed and contentment of someone with plenty to spiritual poverty. Methinks the Rev 3 Laodiceans could be both dissatisfied and satisfied with plenty too. For sure the point that spiritual lack carries far great significance than material holdings is the bottom line. No arguments there.

Since the letters to the churches address works, I'm guessing what counts is the work put into being content materially versus spiritually? It's a thought. Where are we laying up our treasures kind of thing.