The Apocrypha

[Canadian75]

I actually don't like the NAB very much. I'd much rather use the Ignatius Bible (Revised Standard Version - Catholic Edition).

I've got a copy of that one in paperback. Do you find the margins near the gutter are a little small? I have to pry the book open quite a bit to read it all.

Its pretty clear this thread is nothing more than a thinly-veiled piece of Anti-Vatican Catholic propaganda...

I agree.


Personally I like the Apocrypha. I don't know what the big deal is? Aside from Macc. 2 where it refers to prayers for the dead, there is little if no Christian doctrine developed from the rest of the books of the Apocrypha.

Are people worried they'll go blind from bird poo and have to use the cure used in Tobit?? I mean really, what IS the big deal?


Peace.

 

[Canadian75]

What translations can one find the Apocrypha in?

I'm aware of the NAB, NRSV, RSV-CE, Good News, some KJV, and DRV. Are there any others?


Peace.

 

[ScottBot]

I've got a copy of that one in paperback. Do you find the margins near the gutter are a little small? I have to pry the book open quite a bit to read it all.

You have to ante up about $50.00 to get a good leather bound one. Its worth the money though.

 

[Jig]

Oops! Sorry....for a second I thought he said NAB was not a Catholic Bible....

 

[Canadian75]

You have to ante up about $50.00 to get a good leather bound one. Its worth the money though.

Hmmm....$50 US.....that's what $300 Canadian....

I didn't realize that there was a leather bound one. The local Catholic bookstore only has the hard and soft cover ones. I may look into it. Thank you.

Peace.

 

[NPH]

Oops! Sorry....for a second I thought he said NAB was not a Catholic Bible....

hehe, it's ok. So many abbreviations nowadays it's easy to get confused. Every time i've ever gone to a local Christian bookstore and ask for an NAB they start pulling out the NAS or NASB And if I ask about a Douay-Rheims, they look at me like i'm a martian or something

 

[ScottBot]

hehe, it's ok. So many abbreviations nowadays it's easy to get confused. Every time i've ever gone to a local Christian bookstore and ask for an NAB they start pulling out the NAS or NASB And if I ask about a Douay-Rheims, they look at me like i'm a martian or something

That's because Catholics aren't Christian to most "Born-again" Christians.

 

[Catholic Dude]

Thats great...now if Paul would of just defined "all scripture" we wouldn't be having this little discussion.

Remember, since I can find contradictions in Sirach, I don't consider it scripture.

We woulndt be having this discussion? You mean Paul had the complete 66 book Bible in his hands (including the books he had not written yet) and yet he failed to list each book that "All Scripture" is talking about?

Your contradictions are nothing, its misunderstanding and misinterpreting. When the Jews looked up at the bronze snake to be saved were they being saved by the power of the bronze molded into a snake? When people were told to put on sack cloth and fast while they were repenting does that mean going hungry and wering a rag forgives sins?

There are many references all through the Bible that say sins are forgiven by doing some given act, the point you miss is that those are not done outside grace.

Mark9: "41 For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you bear the name of Christ, will by no means lose his reward." Does a cup of water give heavenly reward? When done in the name of Jesus for the sake of the Gospel it does give a reward.

 

[Jig]

We woulndt be having this discussion? You mean Paul had the complete 66 book Bible in his hands (including the books he had not written yet) and yet he failed to list each book that "All Scripture" is talking about?

Come on....do you really think thats what I meant? Paul most likely had some if not all of the OT on hand...but how would you know what it included and didn't include? I never claimed to have known...I'm asking questions here, and your not truely answering them because you guys take them as attacks and try to undermine me by finding small flaws in my comments that "most of the time" go around my original question, leaving it as a secondary topic.

Your contradictions are nothing, its misunderstanding and misinterpreting. When the Jews looked up at the bronze snake to be saved were they being saved by the power of the bronze molded into a snake? When people were told to put on sack cloth and fast while they were repenting does that mean going hungry and wering a rag forgives sins?

My contradictions are nothing? I guess since you couldn't give me a soild answer to stand on... ...everthing you gave me was built on sand.

You keep on going around in circles...the Jews believed in this and that...well guess what? The Jews were wrong on alot of things and Jesus had to put them in their place.

There are many references all through the Bible that say sins are forgiven by doing some given act, the point you miss is that those are not done outside grace.

Is this your understanding of Sirach and Tobit?

 

[DrTheophorus]

Come on....do you really think thats what I meant? Paul most likely had some if not all of the OT on hand...but how would you know what it included and didn't include? I never claimed to have known...I'm asking questions here, and your not truely answering them because you guys take them as attacks and try to undermine me by finding small flaws in my comments that "most of the time" go around my original question, leaving it as a secondary topic.

St. Paul was a Greek speaking Jew and would have used the Septuagint which included the Deuterocanonicals.

Deus misereatur

 

[Jig]

St. Paul was a Greek speaking Jew and would have used the Septuagint which included the Deuterocanonicals.

Deus misereatur

You can't proof that at all. Your assuming.

 

[ScottBot]

You can't proof that at all. Your assuming.

Paul was a Pharisee from Tarsus, which was located in what is now Turkey. Since all of the Jews outside of Palestine (Israel) were called Diaspora Jews, they used the Alexandrian cannon (also called the Septuagint) which was written in Greek, the language of commerce, trade, and written communication for the entire Roman empire. Is it so hard for you to acknowledge that there may be people on the earth who know a little more about the history of Christianity than you do, are do you just like to argue for arguements sake?

 

[Jig]

Paul was a Pharisee from Tarsus, which was located in what is now Turkey. Since all of the Jews outside of Palestine (Israel) were called Diaspora Jews, they used the Alexandrian cannon (also called the Septuagint) which was written in Greek, the language of commerce, trade, and written communication for the entire Roman empire.

Paul turned from being a Pharisees and became a Christian. He was no longer even Jewish, besides in background, and he used his roots to help convice others about Jesus.

I'm not saying they could have used that....but is it not possible that what he carried around wasn't that complete canan? He probably only took what he needed....which was probably only prophecy and the torah.

Prove that Paul taught anything out of Sirach or Tobit or MAccabees.

 

[DrTheophorus]

Paul turned from being a Pharisees and became a Christian. He was no longer even Jewish, besides in background, and he used his roots to help convice others about Jesus.

I'm not saying they could have used that....but is it not possible that what he carried around wasn't that complete canan? He probably only took what he needed....which was probably only prophecy and the torah.

Prove that Paul taught anything out of Sirach or Tobit or MAccabees.

St. Paul was always Jewish. St Paul did not carry any Scriptures but would have relied on the Scriptures in the Synagogues. They were much too valuable to carry around and even a person of substantial means could not afford them. When he traveled outside of Jerusalem he almost certainly encountered the Alexandrian Canon everywhere he went.

Deus misereatur

 

[Kripost]

Paul turned from being a Pharisees and became a Christian. He was no longer even Jewish, besides in background, and he used his roots to help convice others about Jesus.

I'm not saying they could have used that....but is it not possible that what he carried around wasn't that complete canan? He probably only took what he needed....which was probably only prophecy and the torah.

Prove that Paul taught anything out of Sirach or Tobit or MAccabees.

You missed the point. The Septuagint was already widely used, especially among Jews in diapora who did not know Hebrew.

 

[ScottBot]

You missed the point. The Septuagint was already widely used, especially among Jews in diapora who did not know Hebrew.

History is irrelevant. If it isn't contained in the text of the KJV, it never happened.

 

[Catholic Dude]

St. Paul was always Jewish. St Paul did not carry any Scriptures but would have relied on the Scriptures in the Synagogues. They were much too valuable to carry around and even a person of substantial means could not afford them. When he traveled outside of Jerusalem he almost certainly encountered the Alexandrian Canon everywhere he went.

Deus misereatur

Agreed.

Look at Phil4:

3 And I ask you also, true yokefellow, help these women, for they have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.
​

For people who dont know who Clement was he was an early Christian leader who knew Paul personally.How much closer does someone have to be to the Apostles? Here is Clement's famous letter (on a Protestant webpage) to the church at Corinth around 100AD, Im not kidding, around 100AD. Its not Scripture, but it doesnt have to be, its simply a look at what the first Christians believed. Look at it as just history, as if you were reading a historical document, you dont have to agree with it, just note what it says.

Jig I challenge you to read that letter, it should take less that 30 minutes (or if your me about 45min) to read it. The facts are waiting to be discovered.

 

[Jig]

Agreed.

Look at Phil4:

3 And I ask you also, true yokefellow, help these women, for they have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.


​

For people who dont know who Clement was he was an early Christian leader who knew Paul personally.How much closer does someone have to be to the Apostles? Here is Clement's famous letter (on a Protestant webpage) to the church at Corinth around 100AD, Im not kidding, around 100AD. Its not Scripture, but it doesnt have to be, its simply a look at what the first Christians believed. Look at it as just history, as if you were reading a historical document, you dont have to agree with it, just note what it says.


Jig I challenge you to read that letter, it should take less that 30 minutes (or if your me about 45min) to read it. The facts are waiting to be discovered.

I went through it....I'm not sure what you expected me to get out of it...

But here's a question...(not trying to challege anything, I seriously just want to know)...can you prove if that Clement in that passage was the same that wrote your letter? In the OT there are several people with the same name...

 

[Ioann1972]

You can't proof that at all. Your assuming.

This can be proven very easily. The evidence is right there in the NT.

St Paul wrote all his letters in Greek, and he regularly quotes texts from the OT using the same wording as the Septuagint.

In some Bible verses, there are differences in meaning between the Septuagint and the Masoretic text (The Masoretic text is the standardized Hebrew text of the Jewish Holy Scriptures that is used by most modern translators).

For example, look at the way St Paul renders Psalm 51:4 in Romans 3:4:

as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. (KJV)

Here St Paul quotes from the Septuagint. In the Masoretic text (which was used by those who translated OT in the KJV) the same verse (Psalm 51:4) goes:

that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. (KJV)

 

[Catholic Dude]

I went through it....I'm not sure what you expected me to get out of it...

But here's a question...(not trying to challege anything, I seriously just want to know)...can you prove if that Clement in that passage was the same that wrote your letter? In the OT there are several people with the same name...

There are many things to get out of it, one major one was that Clement was quoting from the Septuagint according to the footnotes (which were written by protestant authors). Not to mention Clement explicitly cites the DC book of Judith by name and comments about it as any other Scripture.

I dont know if it can be proven, but Im not the one who discovered that in Phil4:5, from what I have read there were church Fathers who said it was the same guy. I dont know if there is indesputable truth.
There are many people with the same name, sometimes people who seem to be separate but may even be the same person, there is not really any indisputable info on any given random person mentioned. For one I have read the name Mark a few times, I dont know if its the same guy in each, or if it was the author of the 2nd Gospel account, but Im sure it is the same guy.