The Antimasonic Propaganda Machine

[O.F.F.]

O.F.F., I find it ironic that you chastise Freemasonry as being so anti-Christian while puffing yourself up as such a good and knowledgeable Christian, yet you continually spew such garbage as this. It really does nothing to support or give credibility to the walk you claim to be walking.

Ain't that calling the kettle black! And you completely ignore and overlook, without comment, what your colleague in Masonry spewed out at me; even to the point at the end when he stooped low enough to even mock the very blessing of God granting me a job during the worse recession since the Great Depression?

You accuse me, yet it is you who are violating the 1st Commandment by your involvement in Freemasonry, which effectively views all gods as the same. Freemasonry embraces idolatry, commits blasphemy, promotes works-based salvation, denies the exclusivity of the deity of Christ, denies the exclusivity of the Holy Bible as the only inspired Word of God, practices racism, and you know good and well I could go on and on.

But you got the nerve to question my walk with the Lord when your hypocrisy from being a Mason does absolutely nothing to support or give credibility to the walk you claim to be walking! And the same most assuredly holds true for your partner in such biblical crimes; the pseudo-Rev. Wayne; who in his last post proved his real loyalty to the Body of Christ, by taking sides -- not with his follow brothers in Christ -- but with a Mormon; the Mason, D. Charles Pyle.

So you both can have fun alone here for awhile, gloating with your fellowship with your pagan brothers in Masonry. Meanwhile, I will simply continue to be O.F.F. rather than from!

 

[ChristianMasonJim]

Ain't that calling the kettle black! You accuse me, yet it is you who are violating the 1st Commandment by your involvement in Freemasonry, which effectively views all gods as the same. Freemasonry embraces idolatry, commits blasphemy, promotes works-based salvation, denies the exclusivity of the deity of Christ, denies the exclusivity of the Holy Bible as the only inspired Word of God, practices racism, and you know good and well I could go on and on.

Blah, blah, blah. Around and around you go with the same replies that have been addressed and given reasonable and legitimate responses, yet you continue to reject them, circling back to the same old accusations. It's obviously a futile discussion.

But you got the nerve to question my walk with the Lord when your hypocrisy from being a Mason does absolutely nothing to support or give credibility to the walk you claim to be walking! And the same most assuredly holds true for your partner in such biblical crimes; the pseudo-Rev. Wayne; who in his last post proved his real loyalty to the Body of Christ, by taking sides -- not with his follow brothers in Christ -- but with a Mormon; the Mason, D. Charles Pyle.

Hmmm. And to that, I simply let your words speak for themselves, as they are so extremely obvious--maybe not to you, but definitely to many others.

 

[Rev Wayne]

If you "never" throw anything away, you have a huge problem buddy. Not only do you lie about others, you were just caught lying about yourself!!!

This is unbelievable. Did you totally miss it when I said it was most likely from EMFJ posts, and that I had not searched those yet? Why on earth would you make a fool of yourself ranting in this fashion, when I clearly indicated I was not done with my search?

And even if it had turned out that I DIDN'T have the file on hand, how would that automatically be an indication I had "lied" about it, and contrary to what I stated, had "thrown them away?" After all, there are more ways to lose such materials than by throwing them away. This is just more of the bizarre ravings that you try to present as some kind of logical conclusion, when in reality it is based on nothing with any logic to it at all.

In the seven intervening years since then, I have endured the loss of one internal and two external hard drives. One of those involved the archive of files from this forum. Fortunately, they don't throw anything away either, and using their search feature, I was able to track down all the threads where I had been involved, to preserve every statement. That advice was given to me by D. Charles Pyle, who warned me seven years ago that there would be repeated attempts to misrepresent me, and I needed to be able to establish every word of it to prevent the attempt. And over the course of time, his words have proven wise indeed, for it has continued from that point right up to this very moment.

But now that you have jumped in with both feet, get used to the fire, "buddy," because you have nobody to blame for the heat but yourself. I anticipated that without the original, you would just ramp up the hatemongering tone of your remarks. So when I figured out it was probably in the EMFJ archive, I decided to wait and see what you WOULD do if I posted before searching there, just to see if you'd dig yourself even deeper into this hole. Thank you for not disappointing me.

This conversation began on the thread at emfj, "Hiram--the Masonic Savior?" In a conversation with William Wagner, you stated, in post #54, 6/6/03:

You are entitled to your opinion, and you and your Masonic colleagues can continue trying to use the fact that Skip has never been a Mason as grounds for discounting his arguments. Yet don't forget, that there is an army of men called the Order of Former Freemasons (Ex-Masons for Jesus) who serve as firsthand primary witnesses in the Christian case against the teachings of Freemasonry.

Wagner replied in an unnumbered post immediately following:

And just how many are in this army? Would you mind giving us the number of men who are members of O.F.F.

Just so we know what we are up against.

Three posts later, in another unnumbered post, "Rhonda" chimed in with Wagner:

The MINUTE I read Mr. Gentry's statement that there is an "army" of men in the Order of Former Freemasons I wanted to know what the membership count was.

They after all, seem to have endless statistics on the *membership decline* in several GLs.

So...Mr. Gentry...how many? Or do you publish your numbers as openly as the GLs from which you obtain your info, and if so, may I have the web link?

Our good friend Skip had the next two posts, and in the second (#154) he picks up on the comments about the "army":

Incidentally, what do you call one person who stands with God? Answer: an army.

Well, whaddya know? We not only have you to roast for this one, but your bosom buddy Skippy who was the first one to suggest it.

Five posts later, you chimed in, thanking Skip for his comment, and never denying the point about the "army of one." In fact, you decided to embellish it:

Skip:

QUOTE
Thanks, Mike. Appreciate the backup. Incidentally, what do you call one person who stands with God? Answer: an army.
UNQUOTE

Thanks to you too Skip. Also, I would add two things, what do you call one person who stands with God? Answer: The Majority.

Secondly, let me paraphrase what David said in 1 Samual 17:26, "Who are these, that they should defy the army of the living God?"

Sincerely, your brother and fellow soldier in the Army of the Lord,

Mike Gentry
Order of Former Freemasons

So you not only did not dispute the "army of one," you EMBRACED it, thanking Skip for the "backup," and then you added to it, an additional comment about being a "majority of one."

As for your suggestion that Masons are "defying the army of the living God," all I can say is, the army of the living God does not tell one lie, and then tell another lie to cover it up when caught in the act.

In the past, you have simply changed the subject, or simply ignored it and came back later when everyone had moved to other things. I bet you thought this purposeless bluster would divert attention away from it once again, eh? Well, not really, and I'll get to that in a moment. But first, the manner in which the comments about the conversation at emfj got started on this forum. In the conversation already cited from "Freemasonry and Witchcraft," you had first said this in post #628:

Has it ever occurred to you, that since the multitude of thousands of Ex-Masons for Jesus came to the same conclusion about Freemasonry's teachings independently, that there must be credence to it?

THAT was the remark to which I responded with:

Yes, it occurred, but it didn't stick. For one thing, I have never seen any indication anywhere at anytime that there were "thousands" of you at all. In fact, some of us had a hunch there were at best a handful, and when we challenged you on the issue of O.F.F. membership, you got all defensive and made comments about an "army of one," confirming (we felt) our suspicions. At the E-511 boards, they have (I estimate) 50 or 60 people registered in total. Of those who are registered, half are Masons and the majority of the others have never been members of any lodge, even one of the moderators. And I suppose the real kicker was the ill-treatment and general ill-will mood of the anti's that caused me to see the light. And finally, most of the Ex's I have had any chance to observe have all been cut from practically the same cloth, with a few exceptions: Hard-line, dogmatic, strict literal interpretation, my-way-or-the-highway types, which in my opinion tends to lend less credence to their postion, not more. I've heard it said that being dogmatic is all right when you're right, but when you're wrong, it means being mistaken at the top of your voice.

Of course, you did try to give it ONE counter-punch, with this lame response:

Most people I come across who may not share my entire biblical worldview don't necessarily see us all the same way. Also, just because thousands of Ex-Masons for Jesus don't come running online to Masonic or Christian discussion boards, doesn't mean they don't exist. Some choose to rather speak out in their churches and communities, others choose not to be be active at all for one reason or another. Not all Masons are active on the Internet either, so your "hunches" are unfounded. Likewise, you don't see hardly any active Prince Hall Masons on these boards either. I can't begin to tell you why, but you & I know that there are hundreds of thousands of Prince Hall Masons around the world.

To which I replied:

M: Just because thousands of Ex-Masons for Jesus don't come running online to Masonic or Christian discussion boards, doesn't mean they don't exist.

W: No, but when they never seem to materialize anywhere else either, you start putting 2 and 2 together.


M: The Internet is only one medium to inform the world about Freemasonry. In fact, one Ex-Mason for Jesus is not active online, but recently wrote an article in a secular newspaper regarding the racism of Freemasonry in his state of N.C., which he said contributed to his resignation from the lodge. You can view his article by clicking on to it from the announcement section of our website's home page

W: So this one "token" offering is meant to convince me there are thousands?

M: Some choose to rather speak out in their churches and communities, others choose not to be be active at all for one reason or another.

W: Yes, now that you mention it, some of them also conduct "Ministry to Masons" conferences across the land. On the other hand, they seem for the most part to be the same handful doing the websites, so it’s back to square one.

M: Not all Masons are active on the Internet either, so your "hunches" are unfounded.

W: But in searching for antimasons, on- or off-line, they are a very scarce breed indeed. For the most part you find a website here and there, with the founder and at best half a dozen others on each. And what happened to your original assertion of "multitude of thousands of Ex-Masons for Jesus"--"Ex-Masons for Jesus," of course, being essentially an internet organization, implying that the ones you spoke of are on-line? Now that’s a sidestep worthy of your infamous "one-man army" dodge!

I finished that part of the post with:

Let’s face it, when you do the math, it’s easy to figure the odds. I haven’t seen any definable group yet that breaks down any differently percentage-wise when you separate them into categories of on-line/off-line (unless you want to go the insensitive route of polling for categories like blind, paraplegic, 3rd world countries, or other groups you would expect to find less-represented for obvious reasons). With that in mind, the ratio of anti-masons to the general population, or of anti-masons to Masons should not be expected to differ significantly if broken down further into on-line/off-line. That being the case, when you look at the vast assortment of pro-masonic sites . . . and then compare it with the scarcity of anti-masonic sites, odds are the Masons are not flocking out of the lodges to join the anti-masonic cause by the thousands. Appearances can sometimes be deceiving, yes, but for the most part they tend to be pretty accurate. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and ducks the issue when challenged, it probably is a duck.

And now, since you are clearly ducking the issue once more, I reiterate what I already stated:

Since you would be divulging no personal information in doing so, what possible motive could you have for not revealing the number, other than sparing your own embarrassment if the total is particularly low: you know, like one to three? (And just in case you DO have a lucid moment and decide to give us a number? Please try to restrain yourself and avoid the temptation to try to boost your numbers by including emfj members who have never joined your "club." We are, after all, speaking of O.F.F., not emfj. You won't fool readers into thinking the two are synonymous, it's well-known history that you are not really in emfj's good graces.)

My guess to why you WON'T provide a simple total figure for us is: you already made a serious mistake in the one instance in which you ever DID give us a number, by exaggerating the numbers when you made your claims about "multitude of thousands of Ex-Masons for Jesus."

And now you don't DARE give us the TRUE number, because it would be shown once again just how fast and loose you play with the truth. Not that it wasn't obvious already.

 

[O.F.F.]

Wayne,

Like I said earlier, and now your current post confirms it. Anyone with an ounce of brains can see that you took me & Skip's comments out of context; and that I in no way suggested or implied that there is only one member of O.F.F. I have nothing more to say on the matter, because thanks to you, the readers can see I was right.

That advice was given to me by D. Charles Pyle, who warned me seven years ago...

Interesting how you take the advice and warnings given to you by a Mormon, over the advice and warnings given to you by Christians. But, that's okay, we know the reason why.

 

[Rev Wayne]

But you got the nerve to question my walk with the Lord when your hypocrisy from being a Mason does absolutely nothing to support or give credibility to the walk you claim to be walking! And the same most assuredly holds true for your partner in such biblical crimes; the pseudo-Rev. Wayne; who in his last post proved his real loyalty to the Body of Christ, by taking sides -- not with his follow brothers in Christ -- but with a Mormon; the Mason, D. Charles Pyle.

At least you're predictable. Why don't you share with the readers here exactly what Mormonism has to do one way or the other with what was presented? The answer, of course, is nothing at all. He just happened to be the other person who mentioned the incident. At least he told the truth about it by acknowledging that it happened, which you have yet to do.

 

[Rev Wayne]

Anyone with an ounce of brains can see that you took me & Skip's comments out of context.

Really? The context looks pretty solid to me. Skip said one man makes an army, you patted him on the back for it, and added that one man whsides with God (ostensibly anyway) constitutes a majority. No wonder you pontificate all over the place, you're actually convinced you're a one-man organization.

Interesting how you take the advice and warnings given to you by a Mormon, over the advice and warnings given to you by Christians. But, that's okay, we know the reason why.

Yep, we sure do. His advice has been shown to be reliable, for one thing, and it was advice on mundane matters, not matters of the faith. For you to mischaracterize it in this manner just shows what was already stated, you manipulate, twist, and flat out lie without compunction, just to try to massage your guilty conscience for having violated your obligations over mistaken notions planted in your thinking by pseudo-Christians like Ankerberg & Weldon who do the same manipulating, twisting, and lying.

When you get tired of all the twisting and manipulation and avoidance, we're still waiting for that figure on how many members of your organization there truly are.

Were you lying when you said there were "multitude of thousands of ex-Masons for Jesus?" I don't know the answer to that question, mainly because the o.f.f. organization is apparently even more secretive about their "club" than they accuse Masons of being. I'd say that's pretty telling. What I'd also say is pretty telling is, that's not even the question that was asked anyway, so you were being deceptive even with that answer.

Your original comment was:

don't forget, that there is an army of men called the Order of Former Freemasons (Ex-Masons for Jesus). . .

Apparently you thought the readers were too stupid to know that EMFJ and O.F.F. are two separate organizations? Serious, they have completely separate websites and everything. You are the founder and leader of one of them, the other one, you are not. Or come to think of it, maybe you weren't aware of it, given your spiel on the previous page:

Not to mention the fact that, as far as we (O.F.F.) are concern, every Ex-Mason for Jesus is also a member of O.F.F. whether they have been formally recognized as such or not.

This just gets sadder and sadder. I think I'm gonna move to another forum, or at least to another area of this one, before that lightning bolt hits you. I can't figure your thinking on this one, do you just think the Lord will look the other way while you engage in deliberate deceit?

 

[O.F.F.]

Skip said one man makes an army, you patted him on the back for it, and added that one man sides with God (ostensibly anyway) constitutes a majority.

Yes, metaphorically speaking; but you knew this already (Mr. Symbolism) and intelligent readers can see that’s all we meant. What we said in NO WAY suggests or implies that O.F.F. membership consist of only ONE individual; which is precisely what you were lying about to the readers here. And you knew that back then when you posted your response to it, and you know it now, but you still have no problem continuing to mischaracterize what was said. Yet you have the gall to take issue when one calls what you're doing "dishonesty."

Apparently you thought the readers were too stupid to know that EMFJ and O.F.F. are two separate organizations? Serious, they have completely separate websites and everything.

No, I just know of one reader who is so stupid to think that anyone was suggesting that they were not two completely separate organizations in the first place. But to answer your question, for one it's call solidarity, because we share a common purpose; and two, it's because EMFJ as an organization does not determine who is an Ex-Mason for Jesus. Jesus does the moment He led us out of the Masonic Lodge because of our love for Him and His teachings, rather than those of Freemasonry. And on that basis alone, we can confidently say, as far as we (O.F.F.) are concern, every Ex-Mason for Jesus is also a member of O.F.F. whether they have been formally recognized as such or not.

Besides, as long as I've known of them, EMFJ doesn't even have a 'formal' membership. Why? Because when an man chooses to no longer be a Mason for Jesus, by virtue of his denunciation of Freemasonry, that automatically makes him an Ex-Mason for Jesus. There is nothing formal about it; it's just a fact. If one would like to formalize it, they are welcome to join O.F.F. because we do have a formal process for membership. But if they join us or not, no one can ever deny that they are an Ex-Mason for Jesus!

As far as I am concern, the same would be true when one leaves Mormonism, or the Watchtower Society, Homosexuality, or any number of ways of life that are contrary to biblical Christianity. In my mind, by virtue of their denunciation of their former life, they would become Ex-Mormons for Jesus, Ex-JW's for Jesus, Ex-Gays for Jesus, etc. But again it's nothing formal, it's just a fact; and because they would now be brothers and sisters in Christ that's precisely how I would look at them.

That's why you will often see it written as you quoted, Order of Former Freemasons (Ex-Masons for Jesus). O.F.F. is not just an Order of former Masons; if it were, we'd allow any "Ex-Mason" to join regardless of their reason for resigning from the Lodge. But that is not the case; which some mistakenly think when they seek to join us. However, we make it perfectly clear to everyone seeking to join us, that we reserve membership only to those Ex-Masons who have made a conscience decision to renounce and denounce the biblically incompatible teachings of Freemasonry for the sake of Jesus Christ; and who are in agreement with our Mission Statement, Charge and Statement of Faith.

This just gets sadder and sadder.

The sad thing is, even after providing this clear explanation, past experience tells me that you will still find a way to mischaracterize what I just said; and/or ridicule those statements posted on our website. Nevertheless, believe it or not, I still pray that perhaps one day you'll be part of our ministry. Judging by how well you defend Freemasonry, I think you'd make an outstanding contribution as a member if you would ever decide to denounce it.

Sincerely in Christ,

O.F.F.

 

[Hiroyuki]

From earlier on this forum:



Certainly an accurate quote, but a truncated one, and not all Coil has to say on the matter. No one can rightly take this to be a full statement of Coil’s position, when he continues a discourse on the subject of religion from page 511 to page 522. Just before he said this, for example:



In other words, he uses the same terms as Masons have used in the same discussion for some time now, and for which they have received much criticism. And he makes this definitive statement against the idea that Masonry is a religion:



Coil also rightly recognizes Masonry’s Christian roots, as we have consistently maintained here and elsewhere against strenuous opposition—ironically, from Coil-quoting antimasons:



So despite what antimasons on this forum have tried to suggest to us about Coil’s position on the matter:

• Masonry may have religious content, but would not be accurately described as “a religion,” or “one of the religions.”
• There is no consistency by which it may be described as a religion, being Christian in Christian countries, Muslim in Muslim countries, etc.
• Its roots are thoroughly entrenched in Christianity.

But then, Coil is a Mason. Why would we expect him to express an opinion contrary to that expressed consistently by Masons on this thread?

Conversely, antimasons have been shown to be liars, mis-quoters, and mis-representers, when it comes to quoting from Masonic sources. Why should we have suspected they would do any differently with Coil?

That's not to say, of course, that the entire lot of them are guilty of lying. Most of them, or so it would seem, are merely guilty of swallowing without chewing. So, if it looks like a wolf, acts like a wolf, and eats like a wolf. . . . . .

FYI, I am sorry Masons get so much flack, but both the masons and their critics have been invaluable in serving God.

Now whether or not they did so consciously and in good heart is another matter. Clearly, true slander is not a good thing.

Any manner of secret group is bound to arise suspicion in people's hearts, but the masons are not a real secret group... just a convenient patsy for real ones, good and bad.

 

[O.F.F.]

FYI, I am sorry Masons get so much flack, but both the masons and their critics have been invaluable in serving God.

Now whether or not they did so consciously and in good heart is another matter. Clearly, true slander is not a good thing.

Any manner of secret group is bound to arise suspicion in people's hearts, but the masons are not a real secret group... just a convenient patsy for real ones, good and bad.

Hi Hiroyuki,

Thanks for weighing in; but I must respectfully disagree. When you consider the three points you quoted from one of the proponents of Freemasonry:

• Masonry may have religious content, but would not be accurately described as “a religion,” or “one of the religions.”
• There is no consistency by which it may be described as a religion, being Christian in Christian countries, Muslim in Muslim countries, etc.
• Its roots are thoroughly entrenched in Christianity.

(underlined emphasis added)

Collective they represent an oxymoron. Something "cannot be a religion," while at the same time "be" Christian in Christian countries, Muslim in Muslim countries, etc; and have its roots thoroughly entrenched "in a religion" called Christianity. See the glaring contradiction when you juxtapose these points?

Furthermore, this same Masonic proponent has argued that "if" Freemasonry were a religion, the only one it could possibly be is "Christianity." Yet given the "flack" as you put it, that Masons get, you would think that if they really wanted to eliminate it, then at least in America (a predominantly Christian country) every Grand Lodge would declare that it is "thoroughly Christian." But you will not find ONE Grand Lodge in America that has made such a declaration; to include the Grand Lodge of South Carolina where this Masonic proponent hails.

Moreover, when evaluated under the closest scrutiny, as the following link thoroughly does for those who are interested; if it looks like a religion, sounds like a religion, and as the article points out, in many ways functions like a religion there is only one conclusion you can arrive at.

Is Freemasonry a Religion?​

So it's not a question as to whether or not Masons and their critics have been invaluable in serving God; because believers and unbelievers alike are known to do some "good," to include charitable works. The question for followers of Jesus Christ is, how can any organization "being Christian in Christian countries, Muslim in Muslim countries, etc. (other countries that worship false gods)" be of any value to the One True Living God of the Bible when not all of them acknowledge Him, or His Son for who they truly are?

 

[ChristianMasonJim]

FYI, I am sorry Masons get so much flack, but both the masons and their critics have been invaluable in serving God.

Now whether or not they did so consciously and in good heart is another matter. Clearly, true slander is not a good thing.

Any manner of secret group is bound to arise suspicion in people's hearts, but the masons are not a real secret group... just a convenient patsy for real ones, good and bad.

Hiroyuki, welcome!

If you took the opportunity to read through this entire thread, you really should have your head examined! Seriously, you should find herein some very excellent and informative information from both sides of this debate.

It should be also very plain to see that both sides have those representatives who support very specific yet often conflicting or irreconcilable positions. While it is commendable to stand firm in one's beliefs, just remember the reasons behind the comments. There are definitely several stated and unstated agendas at play here. Some are here to specifically try to lead people away from Freemasonry. Others, I cannot speak for (and should they choose to do so, may state their agendas.) I, myself, am here because I read some statements that I interpret to be misunderstanding, misinterpretation, and sometimes misrepresentation of issues. I will concede I am sometimes in error in some of my statements to which I always acknowledge. I will also stand firm based upon what I see, am told, read, pray about, and study with regards to Freemasonry and Christianity.

Again, welcome!!

 

[ChristianMasonJim]

So it's not a question as to whether or not Masons and their critics have been invaluable in serving God; because believers and unbelievers alike are known to do some "good," to include charitable works. The question for followers of Jesus Christ is, how can any organization "being Christian in Christian countries, Muslim in Muslim countries, etc. (other countries that worship false gods)" be of any value to the One True Living God of the Bible when not all of them acknowledge Him, or His Son for who they truly are?

Freemasonry is not about being a religion. It is about presenting time-tested lessons of morality to a person who has an understanding of and belief in the concept of a single, creator God. It does not care what his specific religion is. And that appears to be the precise point of disagreement: You assert that if an organization is religious, then it must therefore be exclusively Christian, otherwise it has no value to God and is heretical. I believe otherwise.

 

[O.F.F.]

Freemasonry is not about being a religion.

Perhaps not deliberately intending to do so, I'll say that much, but by default given the thorough explanation outlined in the article to which I provided a link to in my last post.

It is about presenting time-tested lessons of morality to a person who has an understanding of and belief in the concept of a single, creator God.

And since it welcomes ALL gods from any religion that views Him (or it) as the "single" creator, what you just stated sounds like it implies that all gods are the same regardless of the name attributed by anybody, Christian or not. I don't know about yours, but my Bible tells me that Christians should flee from such implications.

It does not care what his specific religion is.

That makes perfect sense, since it also doesn't care what his specific god is either.

You assert that if an organization is religious, then it must therefore be exclusively Christian, otherwise it has no value to God and is heretical.

No Jim that is NOT my assertion. I assert that if an organization is religious, by virtue of the fact that by design its beliefs can be interchangeable with those of ALL monotheistic religions, it violates the 1st Commandment among other things, making it heretical and, as a result, it has no value to the God you claim to serve.

 

[Rev Wayne]

EMFJ as an organization does not determine who is an Ex-Mason for Jesus.

No, but that wasn't the point anyway. The issue was, you were claiming emfj's were automatically members of O.F.F. I assure the readers here, you are being deceptive, first, in making that claim, and second, in trying to spin it some other direction with this bizarre reframe.

Recently, on the CARM forums when you and I were engaged in an exchange in which a connection between EMFJ and O.F.F. was insinuated, I was immediately hit with an email from Duane Washum, quickly disavowing any connections between the two organizations. Like it or not, he and others there have distanced themselves from you. So no, you cannot claim that all Ex-Masons for Jesus are, by default, members of O.F.F., because most of them wouldn't have any part of your organization if you paid them.

But if they join us or not, no one can ever deny that they are an Ex-Mason for Jesus!

Well, you've got my vote for "Straw Man of the Year." I'm not that ignorant, nor am I impressed by highlighting, as you seem to think. The straw man you just objected to was said by neither you nor I, nor for that matter anyone else here. What YOU were trying to claim earlier was that members of Ex-Masons for Jesus are AUTOMATICALLY members of the Order of Former Freemasons--which is why I immediately mentioned how tickled Duane would be, to know he had just been inducted--because I knew he had already disavowed any connection. Now you're just employing Clintonian ethics like defining the word "is," to try to sell a bill of goods an idiot wouldn't touch.

You really won't make any headway trying to pretend your numbers are in the "multitude of thousands" by trying to connect your "club" with his anyway. Apparently they fare no better than O.F.F. in that department.

From Ed King's Masonicinfo website:

2001 Update:　
Despite the many claims by both Larry Kunk (whose website is paid for by US taxpayers through his ability to claim it as a tax deduction - registered as a "charity" under the U.S. Tax Code) and Duane that the Ex-Masons for Jesus 'outfit' has converted "thousands", there are STILL the same SIX people listed there that they had three years ago!　 Wouldn't you think they could have found at least one or two more names from the supposed "thousands" to add to their claims?　
And just who do they list as members? Well, one of the six (Lora Burton) is not even a Mason: she was a RAINBOW girl (Rainbows are aged 11-20)!　 Ex-Masons for Jesus with one non-Mason brings it now down to five meager names! There's Jack Harris, another person like Duane who spent years attending meetings and didn't have a clue as to what was going on there apparently.　 For several years, Jack never seemed to publicly acknowledge Duane but apparently now he does.　
And in a very interesting twist, there's a listing for Bill Schnoebelen who is described as follows: "Bill Schnoebelen was the High Priest of a coven of witches and a member of the Church of Satan when he joined the Masonic Lodge. Bill was able to embrace the teachings of Masonry wholeheartedly; he immediately recognized the symbolism." That's interesting - because that's not how Bill relates his life. Of course, the chronology of Bill's life seems to change with the audience so who knows....　 There's Mick Oxley and Harmon Taylor　and there's Duane himself.　Five years and five members - all of whom were against Freemasonry before this organization began. Quite an impressive list - and even more so since they've supposedly gotten THOUSANDS to leave Freemasonry. And just think: if you're a US resident, your tax dollars support their activities!
　
2002 Update: Curiously another name now appears on the notice for the "Missions to Masons" conference in September, 2002, billed as a co-founder of Duane's organization. He must have wanted to keep an awfully low profile during the past decade: we wonder why.... And, strangely, the testimonies of the supposed thousands of ex-Masons who're so very eager to embrace Duane's beliefs still has only four 'testimonies' - one of which is from what appears to be a totally phony doctor (see next paragraph) and one from a "Chuck H.". Why is Chuck's surname hidden? Is this a version of "ex-Masons anonymous"? And why isn't there a 'testimony' from Duane's co-founder, Thomas Hilton telling us all about HIS Masonic career and personal history, such as it was? Very, very strange, isn't it?
2006 Update: And now it's FOUR! The individual whom we had previously had here and whom we described as an apparently phony doctor has written to us. We were wrong and he is, in fact, a medical doctor as confirmed by a US medical licensing board through an online link which he provided. The real reason for his message, however, was to tell us that he has since returned to Freemasonry and rejoined the fraternity. He asked Duane to remove his name from their website and but it took this site writing about it to make that happen. For folks who seem particularly proud to 'crow' about Freemasonry's dwindling numbers, we'd suggest that the 'Ex-Masons for Jesus crew isn't doing too very well themselves....
So here's the February 2006 scorecard:
Five persons willing to be listed as providing 'testimony' for the Ex-Masons for Jesus:
One of them is Duane Washum - the founder. Back (apparently to replace that of the doctor) is the testimony of his co-founder.
One is "Chuck H." Yeah, now THAT'S something anyone could certainly validate, isn't it?
One is that of Jack Harris whom we've described above. Curiously, Bill Schnoebelen's listing is missing. Was he embarrassed by Duane's bizarre claims? Bill makes many of his own so we must really wonder why these 'birds of a feather' wouldn't want to cooperate.
And the final one is a supposed former Rainbow Girl who has never been and would never be eligible to become a Mason.
That's pretty scrawny list of "Ex-Masons for Jesus", isn't it - out of a couple of million Masons?
They have a website, Duane flogs his group at every opportunity, and they have (almost-) annual meetings - yet only four Masons, one of whom could simply be a figment of their imagination and two of whom by their actions appear congenitally obtuse, have 'testimonies' on the subject. GOSH! The millions of Masons are all out of step except them, huh?
2009 Update
After only ten years, it's apparently time to start manufacturing more fake identities to bolster their ranks. As the Ephesians 5-11 message board clearly shows, only Duane and Skip Sampson really do much to bang their tax-exempt drum any more. Nevertheless, Duane is not one to go without attention for more than a decade so it would see that he's invented one "Ed Garner" to provide testimony against Freemasonry. In a post made by Duane (doesn't Ed have the ability to use a computer?), he brags about his youth and accomplishments, making vague claims about participation in various places around the globe, none of which - not surprisingly - have enough details to provide evidential or circumstantial proof of this individual's existence. A statement is made that he was a member in some of the several states he mentions yet two of them that I've checked (out of 5 - 2/5ths) fail to show an individual with that name at any time during the past few decades. To give his testimony even more weight, he adds " I even wrote an article criticizing inactive lodge members." Must have been pretty important since there's no connection whatsoever online with the name or anything to do with Freemasonry - not that having something online proves or disproves an individual's existence but in light of Duane's many and frequent misrepresentations in the past, he really should provide some bona fides here.
Do we even need to mention that the invisible Mr. Garner once again recites Duane's favorite old saw, the Taxil Hoax - as described in the story below which appeared in U. S. News & World Report? Naw.... You could have seen that one coming a mile away!
Don't these guys EVER learn????

Wow, you just might have quadrupled your "army of one!" Oops, better leave one of those off, Duane has already disavowed any connections. And Bill Schnoebelen, the "ex-vampire," who also says Masons are aliens who have infiltrated the planet from flying saucers? Are you sure that's the kind of personnel you want to have in your camp? Get a grip, man, the group is faring badly enough with the damage control made necessary by O.F.F.'s flounder, er, founder.

But hey, thanks for the comic interlude. Now, can you lay aside all the nonsense, and tell us how many ACTUAL members of O.F.F.? (Umm, that would be the ones who have actually joined, not the ones inducted by O.F.F.ian osmosis, or abducted by antimasonic aliens--y'all do have those too, don't you?)

Nevertheless, believe it or not, I still pray that perhaps one day you'll be part of our ministry.

Gee, I can't wait. I'm going down to see my physician immediately, and go ahead and get the paperwork started for my lobotomy. It is a requirement, right?

 

[Rev Wayne]

Yes, metaphorically speaking; but you knew this already (Mr. Symbolism) and intelligent readers can see that’s all we meant. What we said in NO WAY suggests or implies that O.F.F. membership consist of only ONE individual; which is precisely what you were lying about to the readers here. And you knew that back then when you posted your response to it, and you know it now, but you still have no problem continuing to mischaracterize what was said. Yet you have the gall to take issue when one calls what you're doing "dishonesty."

Don't be ridiculous. Of COURSE I take issue with it when someone accuses me of "dishonesty" while lying through their teeth. I think anyone would.

Nothing was even REMOTELY suggested as you claim, this was NEVER about trying to claim "there is only one member of O.F.F." In fact, I wasn't making any claim at all, YOU were, and all I was interested in, was showing it was not true.

This WAS all about the completely untrue statementYOU told when you said you never made any comments about an "army of one." It's already been proven false, because you not only heartily endorsed Skip's comment to that effect, thanking him "for his help"; you ALSO added to it a comment about one person with God constituting "a majority."

Not only that, you made matters worse, after I gave you a little rope to hang yourself higher, by claiming I was "lying" about the conversation that actually DID take place, just as I stated, on the emfj boards. That little mis-step turned your one lie into two.

No, I said only that you DID make comments to that effect. I said nothing one way or the other about whether there was or was not only one member. Because really, I didn't have to, your own comments speak for themselves on that point.

But there's more than this to illustrate your duplicity. Just while ago you said:

as far as we (O.F.F.) are concern, every Ex-Mason for Jesus is also a member of O.F.F. whether they have been formally recognized as such or not.

You see that, right, readers? "EVERY" Ex-Mason for Jesus "IS ALSO A MEMBER of O.F.F." And that, he claims, is true "WHETHER THEY HAVE BEEN FORMALLY RECOGNIZED AS SUCH OR NOT."

In typical fashion, THAT was THEN.........but THIS is NOW:

If one would like to formalize it, they are welcome to join O.F.F. because we do have a formal process for membership . . . .

That's why you will often see it written as you quoted, Order of Former Freemasons (Ex-Masons for Jesus). O.F.F. is not just an Order of former Masons; if it were, we'd allow any "Ex-Mason" to join regardless of their reason for resigning from the Lodge. But that is not the case; which some mistakenly think when they seek to join us. However, we make it perfectly clear to everyone seeking to join us, that we reserve membership only to those Ex-Masons who have made a conscience decision to renounce and denounce the biblically incompatible teachings of Freemasonry for the sake of Jesus Christ; and who are in agreement with our Mission Statement, Charge and Statement of Faith.

Wow, suddenly it dies the death of qualifications. The first time, it's "Every emfj is also a member of o.f.f. whether they have been formally recognized as such or not." But the second time around, instead of being automatic, suddenly it's "we reserve membership" for certain ones, and suddenly there are other things they have to agree to in order to join.

it's becoming clearer and clearer with each passing day, Masons don't have to do anything at all in response to antimasonic psycho-babble. Just sit back and leave them to their own devices, and they will self-contradict and self-destruct right before your eyes.

 

[duanewashum]

A poster here wrote: "as far as we (O.F.F.) are concern, every Ex-Mason for Jesus is also a member of O.F.F. whether they have been formally recognized as such or not."
I do not consider myself to be a member of O.F.F. And Mr. Gentry is most certainly not in any way, shape, or form, affiliated with Ex-Masons For Jesus in spite of his obvious efforts to claim otherwise. We are not that loose with our membership standards. I will make no further comments on either of those matters, because as far as I am concerned, that issue was settled quite some time back.
And as far as your own "source", Wayne, it is outrageously void of facts. I didn't realize you had become that loose a cannon. I will pray for you.

Duane Washum
Director, Ex-Masons For Jesus

 

[Rev Wayne]

And as far as your own "source", Wayne, it is outrageously void of facts. I didn't realize you had become that loose a cannon.

Call it what you will, I notice that you, like Mr. Gentry, do not elaborate, only deny. Except for one point-blank question to him, of course, "Did you send that bizarre email commending Ed King for his website?"

As for the material about the Ministry to Masons conferences, I'm not surprised, since I myself had noticed how sparse the mentions to any such conferences has become in recent years. The last one I recall even getting the least mention was the Arkansas debate. And the 2006 conference at Asbury Seminary, if it ever took place at all, has been one of the best-kept secrets in the world for anyone trying to find out information about what happened. Even the Masons can't keep a secret as well as the anti's have done with that one.

So, just as the one question I have for Mr. Gentry which he can't seem to answer (or won't answer), I also have one for you:

The latest conference I can find any reference to anywhere is 2008, by the Cephas Ministries site. But they have Asbury listed as the site, and a link provided. And lo and behold, the link is in reference to Ephesians5-11! They even have Larry Kunk's name displayed at the top.

But follow the link and you find there a list of conferences that reads:

Conference in 2011?

Conference in 2010
No plans

Conference in 2009
No plans

Conference in 2008
No plans

No 2007 Conference.

2006 Conference
Audio and video tapes are available see below.

But the "below" it refers to is simply an ad announcing the conference, as though it were still upcoming. All the other links on the site appear to be updated. For instance, there is a link for "controversial talk shows and conferences," with some 2010 events listed. So it appears the events and dates have been updated each year since 2006, but with no conferences taking place, and still left open for next year, 2011, with a question mark.

This all seems to be confirmed on the emfj discussion boards, where there is a section pertaining to the conferences, with the last one mentioned being 2006. When someone had a query about the conference, you yourself replied:

It has been a while since we last had a Ministry to Masons Conference, and not really sure when the next one might be.

That was in 2009.

I've listened to the 2004 Arkansas debate, and it was easy to tell that the anti's were out of their element when it came to direct confrontation and/or challenge. Or maybe it's just the absence of the advantage afforded by the control enjoyed at the emfj discussion boards, where the responses of their debating opponents can be edited, relocated, or simply ignored.

Which still leaves the burning question, whatever happened to the 2006 conference, and the promised tapes that don't seem to have ever been made available? What happened (or didn't happen) at Asbury that year that was so embarrassing that no one has dared mention one detail about it since?

 

[duanewashum]

To elaborate: I don't remember that we have ever claimed to have converted "thousands"; I'm not a co-founder of Ex Masons For Jesus; and it is not like Freemasonry or some churches who place success on nickels and noses. We are a non-profit ministry with a total of five people who constitute the board of officers. We co-ordinate our efforts with other ministries, one of which is Rooftop Ministries, which Lora Burton is the director of. We also maintain a list of former Masons, and former members of other Masonic affiliated organizations, assisting them in their witnessing endeavors when asked to do so.

As far as the doctor goes that your own "source" called phony: We knew he was a doctor all along. It was your reliable "source" that was phony. Also, your "source" had nothing whatever to do with our removal of the man's testimony from our website. When the doctor made contact with me directly, we discussed it, and it was removed.

Your "source" is also a liar about my supposedly "favorite old saw, the Taxil Hoax." You know better than that, but hey, you've never let a good lie get buried with the truth, so why should I be surprised.

I participate in Ministry to Masons conferences; I have nothing to do with tape distribution. You are asking the wrong person about that. If you have a "burning question" concerning that, I suggest you take it up with Larry. I'm sure you can find his email address on his site.

As far as your idiotic question of what did or didn't happen at our last conference that was supposed to be so embarrassing?: Huh??

That's enough of this nonsense. More important things to do than cast pearls before swine. I'll leave the mindless rants up to you and the guy from O.F.F.

 

[Rev Wayne]

To elaborate: I don't remember that we have ever claimed to have converted "thousands"; I'm not a co-founder of Ex Masons For Jesus; and it is not like Freemasonry or some churches who place success on nickels and noses. We are a non-profit ministry with a total of five people who constitute the board of officers. We co-ordinate our efforts with other ministries, one of which is Rooftop Ministries, which Lora Burton is the director of. We also maintain a list of former Masons, and former members of other Masonic affiliated organizations, assisting them in their witnessing endeavors when asked to do so.

As far as the doctor goes that your own "source" called phony: We knew he was a doctor all along. It was your reliable "source" that was phony. Also, your "source" had nothing whatever to do with our removal of the man's testimony from our website. When the doctor made contact with me directly, we discussed it, and it was removed.

Your "source" is also a liar about my supposedly "favorite old saw, the Taxil Hoax." You know better than that, but hey, you've never let a good lie get buried with the truth, so why should I be surprised.

I participate in Ministry to Masons conferences; I have nothing to do with tape distribution. You are asking the wrong person about that. If you have a "burning question" concerning that, I suggest you take it up with Larry. I'm sure you can find his email address on his site.

As far as your idiotic question of what did or didn't happen at our last conference that was supposed to be so embarrassing?: Huh??

That's enough of this nonsense. More important things to do than cast pearls before swine. I'll leave the mindless rants up to you and the guy from O.F.F.

I didn't cite from Ed King for the purpose of trying to establish his every word. I did so to make the point to Mike, since he wishes to remain secretive concerning membership in his organization, that he can't seek to pad his numbers by claiming affiliation with emfj. Naturally, he was being facetious in the effort anyway, since his attempt to make the connection was by deconstructing the entire meaning of the phrase "ex-Masons for Jesus" in an attempt to do an end-around justification for his attempt to imply that emfj and o.f.f. were affiliated.

Unforunately, in past encounters with our o.f.f-handed friend, if you do not cite mounds of material, he also tries to deconstruct the meaning of "out of context," and loosely makes that accusation with just about any one-paragraph (or less) quote. Hence the inclusion of the details not pertaining to my main point.

I've visited the sites enough to know who is and who is not a "co-founder" of emfj. I assure you what was posted was in no wise intended as any kind of assertion by me, I stuck throughout what was presented, with only the point about membership figures. I notice, too, that like Mike, you hem and haw and circumlocute your way all around the subject from every angle, without ever really giving a figure either, which really ought to be quite a simple thing to do, given the meticulous management of such things which you claim to be a part of the organization.

And you can boo-hoo all you want to about the Taxil Hoax, you are still affiliated with an organization which does not mind trying to connect the dots between Masonry and the same issue of "luciferian doctrine" which is part and parcel of the Taxil Hoax. Try as you may, you won't fare any better than Pilate in trying to wash your hands.

And as for your idiotic answer to my question about the MTM conferences: huh????

Hey, I'll bet that comes across to you as being just as much a non-answer as your own.

 

[O.F.F.]

"Is Christ divided? Was EMFJ or the Masonic Lodge crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of O.F.F.? . . . You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? For when one says, "I follow the Grand Lodge of South Carolina (GLSC)," and another, "I follow EMFJ or O.F.F.," are you not mere men? What, after all, is O.F.F. or EMFJ? And what is Freemasonry? Only servants, through whom you may have, came to believe. . ." (1 Corinthians 1:13 and 3:3-5 modified)

To whom it may concern:

In light of the most recent posts made here, and despite how those who made them may respond, I would like to declare the following position statements as to the position of O.F.F. (the ministry) on the matters discussed (and several others), which we (O.F.F.) now choose to address to this audience:

What we are NOT

The Order of Former Freemasons (O.F.F.) is not:

1. An "anti-mason" organization.
   
2. A group of Conspiracy Theorists.
   
3. While we do believe that the Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching, we are not "fundamentalists" as defined or depicted by contemporary media.
   
4. On a "Witch Hunt."
   
5. A hate group.
   
6. A group of "Religious Intolerants."
   
7. A greedy group of self-serving, "money hungry" Charlatans.
   
8. A group of "Fanatical Extremists." The root word for "fanatic" is "fan," and while we are indeed fans of Jesus, we do not impose the Gospel on anyone and certainly do not commit, condone, or advocate violence and hostility of any kind to promote the cause for Christ.

What we ARE

The Order of Former Freemasons (O.F.F.) is:

1. An organization that believes in the power of biblical unity (the unity of the Body of Christ – John 17:20-25), that is exemplified by our love toward one another and our adherence to the Essential Doctrines of the historic Christian faith, as derived from the Bible and confirmed through the ancient ecumenical creeds listed in Our Statement of Faith.
   
   
2. An organization that believes in the solidarity of those who oppose Freemasonry on biblical grounds; and who share Our Statement of Faith, regardless if they accept us or not; or if they believe that such solidarity exist between us or not.
   
   
3. An organization that considers any Mason who resigns from, and denounces and renounces Freemasonry, automatically as an informal member of O.F.F. and an "ex-mason for Jesus;" if in fact, he resigns from the Masonic Lodge as a direct result of his knowledge of how Masonic heresy violates the Word of God (the Holy Bible); and his loving relationship with Jesus Christ our Lord; regardless if he ever is – or is not – acknowledged or accepted by the organization formally known as "Ex-Masons for Jesus."
   
   
4. An organization that has a formal process to acknowledge any "ex-mason for Jesus" as a formal member of O.F.F. should he ever want to join our ministry as a Christ-centered alternative to the Masonic Order.
   
   
5. An organization that believes that a man can be lured and deceived into becoming a Mason, and be a Christian at the same time; but if such a brother in Christ persists in doing so, after learning about the biblical incompatibility of Freemasonry, he is in direct violation of the First Commandment; and is therefore in deliberate rebellion against the One True Living God of the Bible. And he should repent from this sin.

In closing, judge this however you may, but regardless of what you believe on these matters; just know that the One True Living God of the Bible will one day judge us all. In the meantime, I will bid you God speed, and leave you all in His hands.

 

[Rev Wayne]

Just a point of clarification: I feel I can safely say without fear of contradiction, nor with any reasonable expectation that I would be unduly speaking for another in doing so, that neither Mr. Washum nor myself were concerned at all with what O.F.F. is or is not, only with the recently expressed insinuations of who the group is/is not affiliated with.

That makes this. . .

In light of the most recent posts made here, and despite how those who made them may respond. . .

a real puzzler, since what was just posted had nothing to do with the most recent posts here.