The Antimasonic Propaganda Machine

[Rev Wayne]

Wb, Skip.

Wayne: wrt to Hutchinson, you are accusing your GL of quoting authors without attribution and altering their meaning in the process.

No, I'm not, you either weren't paying attention, or you are just engaging in the typical antimasonic spin move. I very clearly stated, first, concerning Hutchinson:

Hutchinson, as anyone can see, had no reservations in declaring Masonry to be of Christian content and bearing.

And secondly, in reference to the two citations from SC Ahiman Rezon, pp. 149-51:

That places this within the realm of biblical affirmations of who God is; and that, coupled with the reference also equating the idea of resurrection in both Masonry and Christianity, gives firm affirmation that the God of the Bible--both testaments--is the God of SC Masonry.

I said nothing at all about any "alteration of meaning," because I did not and do not see any.

Hutchinson stated what, in his opinion, the MM ritual implies; I stated, in no uncertain terms, what, imo, the MM ritual implies. And comparing what Hutchinson stated, and what I stated in regard to it, anyone can see, I did not accuse the SC GL of "alteration of meaning."

As to the implication, one might wonder just how "we" (meaning Masons) were "redeemed from the death of sin and the sepulchre of pollution."

Well, one thing is for sure, there's a significant point that was made in the statements that you are totally ignoring. The first statement speaks of being "raised from the grave of iniquity, and quickened into another and better existence." THIS is the action from which "it is implied," & etc.

So unless you can show us where any claim is made that "Blue Lodge ritual raises a man from the grave of iniquity, and quickens him into another and better existence," I don't think your claim as stated holds any water at all, being as full of holes as it is.

 

[Skip Sampson]

The challenge has been presented, and I present it once again: show me anywhere in South Carolina's Ahiman Rezon, which is the book of constitutions for the Grand Lodge of SC, that God is incontrovertibly declared to be any other god than the God of the Bible, and I will post a retraction. As it stands, since it is incontrovertibly shown, from the MM section of our manual, that the God of the Bible is affirmed, I stand on record in saying this presents no conflict nor challenge to my Christian faith.

Here's a quote you should have considered before making your challenge:

Sec. 99. Qualifications-general. An applicant for the degrees of Freemasonry must believe in a Supreme Being, ...(Ahiman Rezon, 2010 edition, pg. 389)

Since the quote mentions "a Supreme Being" it means that any one will do, with the decision being in the eye of the beholder. Thus, it cannot be said that this phrase applies to just the God of the Bible. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Rev Wayne]

Since the quote mentions "a Supreme Being" it means that any one will do, with the decision being in the eye of the beholder.

That still doesn't change what I cited, nor the implications:

It Is hardly necessary to say that the letter G, wherever spoken of in Masonry as a symbol, is merely a modern substitution for the Hebrew letter yod,~, which was the Initial of Jehovah, the tetragammaton, and, therefore, constantly used as a symbol of Deity. (Ahiman Rezon 2003, p. 151)

The small hill near Mount Moriah can be clearly identified by the most convincing analogies as being no other than Mount Calvary. Thus Mount Calvary was a small hill; it was situated in a westerly direction from the Temple, and near Mount Moriah; It was on the direct road from Jerusalem to Joppa, and is thus the very spot wiser. A weary brother, traveling on the road, would find It convenient to sit down to test and refresh himself; it was outside the gate of the Temple; and lastly, there are several caves, or clefts in the rocks, In the neighborhood, one of which, it will be remembered, was, subsequently to the time of this tradition, used as the sepulchre of our Lord. The Christian Mason will readily perceive the peculiar character of the symbolism which this identification of the spot on which the great truth of the resurrection was unfolded in both systems—the Masonic and the Christian—must suggest. (Ahiman Rezon 2003, p. 149-50)

The first citation clearly identifies the Masonic letter G as Jehovah, and is further identified as a variation of the Hebrew yod. This CANNOT be any other than God as revealed in the OT.

In the second citation, the resurrection as presented in the MM degree is here equated with the resurrection of Christ as found in the Christian system.

Therefore, unless either of these has been removed in the 2010 version of Ahiman Rezon, it still clearly identifies God as the God of the Bible--not that it wasn't already pretty clear from the inclusion of so many Bible quotes, with references, throughout all three degrees. And of course, if these had been altered in the least, I'm sure they would have been the first points you would have challenged, rather than going for more generally-stated matters.

Since the quotes I cited clearly identify this as the God of the Bible it does NOT mean that "any one will do, with the decision being in the eye of the beholder." Thus, it cannot be said that the phrases I cited do not refer to the God of the Bible; nor can it be denied, since these are CLEARLY set forth and clearly identify the God of SC Masonry to be the God of the Bible, with no "OTHER" god identified as such.

It's really pretty humorous to watch you focus on all the general statements you can find and try to use them to offset all the specific references that show beyond any doubt that the biblical God is being referred to. Has your automatic denial button got stuck, or do you just not understand the obvious?

 

[ChristianMasonJim]

Welcome back, Skip!

Jim:
You are assuming all Masonic teachings are symbolic. That is not so. Many are blunt statements of 'fact' whose meaning is perfectly clear in a literal sense. Consult the apron lecture, for example.

No, I do not assume that all Masonic teachings are symbolic, however I do believe that much more of it is symbolic or can be legitimately interpreted symbolically than most will admit. And the apron lecture is a wonderful example of such symbolism.

As has been pointed out in other postings, the white lambskin apron clearly can be interpreted as an amazing representative of salvation through Jesus Christ. Jesus, being the Pascal Lamb, the Lamb of God, is represented by, of course the lambskin. And "white", being the color historically representing purity and innocence, can be interpreted as sinlessness. And the apron itself, by its very definition, is a covering that covers and protects the wearer. So the white lambskin apron can clearly symbolize the covering of redemption afforded to us by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

But more specifically, to address the "magic bullet" that the Masonic Attackers point to: "...purity of life and conduct which is so essentially necessary to his gaining admission into the celestial Lodge above...", that clearly refers to a condition that can never be obtained by man's own doing--it can only be obtained by the redeeming covering of Jesus Christ, symbolized appropriately within the context of Masonic working tools by the white lambskin apron. His sacrifice covers our sins so that we, at judgment, appear sinless to God. This is a completely legitimate interpretation. Further, as stated in the very book that Masonic Attackers quote, is an explanation about the lecture in which the above quote is found to sufficiently legitimize said interpretation:

The second section of the first lecture, according to the system prevailing in this country, is occupied with an explanation of the symbolic meaning of the ceremonies that are detailed in the first; without, therefore, a knowledge of the second section, the first becomes barren and insignificant. It must, however, be confessed that many of the interpretations given in this section are unsatisfactory to the cultivated mind, and seem to have been adopted on the principle of the old Egyptians, who made use of symbols to conceal rather than to express their thoughts. Learned Masons have been, therefore, always disposed to go beyond the mere technicalities and stereotyped phrases of the lectures, and to look in the history and philosophy of the ancient religions, and the organization of the ancient mysteries, for a true explanation of most of the symbols of Masonry, and there they have always been enabled to find the true interpretation. The usual lecture is, however, still preserved as a brief mode of acquiring a general knowledge of the mode of Masonic instruction, and as furnishing sufficient proof of the definition that "Freemasonry is a system of morality veiled in allegory and illustrated in symbols."-Ahimen Rezon, 2003, page 82-83

So what you assert is not symbolic can and is very symbolic to the Freemason.

 

[Rev Wayne]

Ahiman Rezon as we have it is basically still Mackey's edited version of it, Which is essentially Webb's version, handed down by way of Dermott and Dalcho. His explanation of the "hill near Mount Calvary" clearly sees it as a symbolic representation of the resurrection of Christ. This explanation, as already stated above, is a part of the SC Ahiman Rezon MM degree lecture.

If there be any doubt concerning Mackey's intent, it is dispelled by a look at his comments in his Encyclopedia, where he is even more explicit than in the particular portion found in Ahiman Rezon:

Mount Calvary has always retained an important place in the legendary history of Freemasonry, and there are many traditions connected with it that are highly interesting in their import.

One of the traditions is, that it was the burial place of Adam, in order, says the old legend, that where he lay, who effected the ruin of mankind, there also might the Savior of the world suffer, die, and be buried. Sir R. Torkington, who published a pilgrimage to Jerusalem in 1517, says that ''under the Mount of Calvary is another chapel of our Blessed Lady and St. John the Evangelist, that was called Golgatha; and there, right under the mortise of the cross, was found the head of our forefather, Adam." Golgotha, it will be remembered, means, in Hebrew, the place of a skull ; and there may be some connection between this tradition and the name of Golgotha, by which, the Evangelists inform us, in the time of Christ, Mount Calvary was known. Calvary, or Calvaria, has the same signification in Latin.

Another tradition states that it was in the bowels of Mount Calvary that Enoch erected his nine-arched vault, and deposited on the foundation-stone of Freemasonry that Ineffable Name, whose investigation, as a symbol of Divine truth, is the great object of Speculative Freemasonry. A third tradition details the subsequent discovery of Enoch's deposit, by King Solomon, whilst making excavations in Mount Calvary during the building of the Temple.

On this hallowed spot was Christ the Redeemer slain and buried. It was there that, rising on the third day from his sepulcher, He gave, by that act the demonstrative evidence of the resurrection of the body and the immortality of the soul.

And it is this spot that has been selected, in the legendary history of Freemasonry, to teach the same sublime truth, the development of which by a symbol evidently forms the design of the Third or Master's Degree.
(Mackey, Encyclopedia, "Calvary")

 

[Rev Wayne]

Continuing with the presentation of articles from the Order of Former Freemasons website: here are an assortment of comments made in articles from the site, and in articles to which the site provides a link.

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Satan always hides behind a facade; and he does not need a password or dues card to enter the lodge in order to grip the hearts and minds of Masons. If this is true, it is of utmost importance for us to discern how the devil has used Freemasonry to distort the Biblical record. Satan is not interested in destroying other faiths; he already knows that they are counterfeit. He only cares about deceiving Christians, hence the use of Bible "scripture twisting" in Freemasonry-one of his craftiest works of art-rather than the counterfeit "Volumes of Sacred Law" of other religions.
("Essential Masonic Doctrines")
There are probably going to be plenty of peaks and valleys in your life. Satan doesn't like losing, and he just lost you. ("Freemasonry's Plan of Salvation")
Satan always hides behind a facade; and he does not need a password or dues card to enter the lodge in order to grip the hearts and minds of Masons. Since this is true, it is of utmost importance for us to discern how the devil has used Freemasonry to distort the Biblical record. Satan is not interested in destroying other faiths; he already knows that they are counterfeit. He only cares about deceiving Christians, hence the use of Bible "scripture twisting" in Freemasonry, which is one of Satan's craftiest works of art. Rather than using the bogus "Volumes of Sacred Law" of other religions, Freemasonry uses the real thing — the true inspired Word of God — the Holy Bible. ("The Temple of God")
Freemasonry: The Devil's Playground
　
Anton LaVey, the High Priest of the Church of Satan states:
　
"...Masonic orders have contained the most influential men in many governments, and virtually every occult order has many Masonic roots. ("Freemasonry and the 20th Century Occult Revival")
　
Helena Petrovna Blavatsky
Her most famous book, The Secret Doctrine, is one of the foundational occult works of all time. Her preeminently wicked book made no distinction between the serpent and the God of the Bible and taught that Satan was the one that made man into a god:
("Freemasonry and the 20th Century Occult Revival")
　
Aleister Crowley: Father of Modern Satanism
　
The most disturbing example of someone being recruited out of Freemasonry into more bizarre occult orders is that of 33rd degree Mason, Aleister Crowley. During his lifetime, Crowley was proclaimed by the press as the most wicked man alive. Crowley's perverted life left a string of casualties among those who were foolish enough to get close to this evil man. . . .
　
It is perfectly understandable that this hater of Christianity would love the Royal Arch degree of Freemasonry. In this degree, Freemasons blaspheme the God of the Bible by uniting God's name with pagan gods. The secret word of the Royal Arch that Crowley is referring to is :Jah-Bul-On. The Jah represents Jehovah, Bul represents the pagan god Ba'al, and On represents the Egyptian sun god. It is no wonder Crowley's Satanic heart jumped for joy when he was able to blaspheme the God of the Bible by uniting the true God with the pagan god, Baal to whom human children were sacrificed. . . .
　
Since their early existence, the O.T.O. and the Golden Dawn have maintained close ties. The father of modern Satanism, Aleister Crowley, was a member of both organizations. . . .
　
While Crowley was working the rituals of the Book of Abramelin he became possessed with his lifelong spirit guide (demon), Aiwass. The demon Aiwass dictated the truly satanic book, The Book of Law, to Crowley. We have previously studied some parts of that book in the information on the O.T.O. ("Freemasonry and the 20th Century Occult Revival")
　
Waite was more than a Freemason; he was an authority on Freemasonry and was the author of A New Encyclopedia of Freemasonry. Waite is also the author of such occult titles as, The Book of Black Magic, and Devil Worship in France. The Book of Black Magic by Waite contains terrible conjurations given in the name of Satan and has spells to conjure Lucifer. ("Freemasonry and the 20th Century Occult Revival")
　
It is indeed hard to disagree with the conclusion of our witch experts, Janet and Stewart Farrar, when they stated that the biggest influence in the modern occult explosion has been the Freemasons of the Golden Dawn. The foundational works for Ritual Magic and Satanism are found in the writings of the men involved in the Golden Dawn. Anton Szandor LaVey, high priest of the Church of Satan gives credit to the Golden Dawn as the source of his satanic invocations found in the Satanic Bible. LaVey tells about his translations:
　
"I have presented my translation of the following calls with an archaic but Satanically correct unvarnishing of the translation employed by the Order of the Golden Dawn in the late Nineteenth Century....the Enochian Calls are the Satanic paeans of faith. ("Freemasonry and the 20th Century Occult Revival")
　
It should also be pointed out that the pentagram is one of the most common symbols of the occult and is used in countless magick rituals. Masons may use it to symbolize humanity, but other groups give this occultic symbol entirely different meanings. Satanists, for example, use the upside-down pentagram to represent Satan [Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible (New York: Avon Books, 1969), pp. 129-30].
("A Closer Look at A Bridge to Light")
　
Masonry taught me that it does not matter who, or what I believe, just as long as I believe in the existence of "a" Supreme Being. I've often wondered, does this mean that even if a man believes that Satan is God; can he still become a Mason? Apparently this is true based upon the testimony of an Ex-Mason for Jesus, who turned his life over to the Lord after worshipping Satan as God during the time he was an active Mason. And, there are other examples of this as well. ("Our Founder's Testimony")
　
I now had an irresistible force meeting an immovable object, namely the God of the Universe, Jesus Christ, and the god of Freemasonry, Satan. ("Testimony of Jack Harris")
　
I took my belt buckle, my apron, the books I had gotten from the Lodge – except for the Monitor. I burned all of that in my back yard, and have not looked back since. I knew that I needed the Monitor to prove some things. I took that Monitor and gave it to a friend by the name of Larry Kunk, so I no longer have that as a tie to Satanic activity. I went back to the Lodge and I bought another Monitor that I can use to prove the truth. ("Testimony of Tom Hilton")
　
Requiring that a candidate for Masonry believe in the existence of "A Supreme Being," is merely causing him to bind his Masonic vows in the name of whatever god he may hold himself accountable to. Freemasonry has no problem with those who have faith in the gods of witchcraft, Satanism, Mormonism, etc. ("Testimony of Ken C.")
　
========================================================

 

[Rev Wayne]

The above types of articles, and links to articles o.f.f. the site itself, have been typical of the fare presented by the organization's founder. Yet in a candid moment on this forum some time ago, he willingly admitted to quite a different story on the matter. He was presented with the following question, after he had been making suggestions of "satanism" in association with the lodge:
　

Bill M: When you were a Freemason did you ever see any Freemason indulge in any Evil or Satanic worship, or was there any mention of Wiccan content in your Lodge...Just your personal testimony for the benefit of Andrew who seems to think Masonry is based on Witchcraft and Satanism.

　
O.F.F.: Other than our periodic jolly, tipsy, 'boys-will-be-boys' carousing mayhem of wine, women, and song, that's about as evil as it got. Yes, that was sinful on our part in most cases, but no, I have never personally witnessed deliberate Wiccan, Satanism or Witchcraft. But, that has never been my contention. You and I know that those issues exist, and have existed among some Masons, but if so, they are the exception and not the rule.

　
Yet he has posted links to the SaintsAlive page "Freemasonry and the 20th Century Occult Revival" as recently on this forum as July 2007, over three years after making the above statement. And he continues to maintain a link to the site, despite his full knowledge that the "Freemasonry" criticized by that website is not the Freemasonry he joined, nor is it the Freemasonry which he assails. No, he understands fully and undeniably, that "Ordo Templi Orientis," "Golden Dawn, and the like are NOT Freemasonry, but pseudo-Masonry; and he understands equally well that the likes of Aleister Crowley, C.W. Leadbeater, and Foster Bailey are NOT true Masons; and by his own admission, he knows also that "satanism" is not a part of the Masonry of which we speak. Yet the O.F.F. website engages in the deception of posting such a link, even to this day.
　
By way of comparison, that's like citing a website with information about Jehovah's Witnesses, the Unification Church, Mormons, Swedenborgians, Unitarians, Christadelphians, and Christian Science, while trying to support an accusation against mainstream Christianity. The "support" offered has nothing to do with the accusation.
　
This type of self-contradiction--declaring never to have seen "satanism" first-hand (despite his having been a 32nd-degree Mason), while openly supporting on the O.F.F. website with both articles and links to articles which clearly espouse a diametrically opposite view--is unfortunately a part of the history and track record of this site and its founder.
　
But I would point your attention to an even more bizarre self-contradiction. On the same website can be found articles with the following comments:
　

The Light that is found in John 8:12 is the way, the truth, and the life, of John 14:6, who is the Son of God of John 3:16-17. But Freemasonry ignores that Light; it ignores the way; it ignores the truth; it ignores the life; it ignores Jesus Christ. It tells its members — "You can do it yourself. All you need, if you are a MASON, is your good works". All that is "essentially necessary", according to the lodge, is that "purity of life and rectitude of conduct". Simply be a good person, and do good things. And if you will just be a good person, and do good things, you will pass "upward and inward through the pearly gates..." (Freemasonry's Plan of Salvation)

The Bible teaches that faith without works, deeds or conduct of behavior demonstrating that one's faith is actually alive, vibrant and true, then such faith is dead (James 2:14-26). In other words, the Bible instructs us that good works are the by-product of genuine faith in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8-13). Freemasonry, on the other hand, teaches that good works — without the need of faith in Jesus — will get a Mason into heaven. If not, where is the biblical prerequisite for salvation, of faith in Jesus Christ alone found in Masonic ritual? Don't bother looking, because you will not find it. It doesn't exist in Masonic ritual! Yet, clearly the Masonic lecture of the Common Gavel and of the White Leather Apron both tell the Freemason that by applying the principles of Freemasonry and performing "good works" he can expect to gain admission to the Celestial Lodge above. (The Religion of Freemasonry)

　
Can you think of anything more ridiculous, than trying on the one hand to assert charges of "satanism" by Freemasons--while on the other hand, trying to justify accusations that these same men allegedly engaged in "satanism" are making every effort to get into heaven? That thought would be ludicrous, no matter HOW they were supposedly trying to get in, because it goes completely against the grain of "satanism" in the first place.
　
Just one more example of the totally self-refuting claims being made by the accusers of Masonry.

 

[ChristianMasonJim]

"The lamb has in all ages been deemed an emblem of innocence; by the lambskin, the Mason is, therefore, reminded of that purity of life and conduct which is so essentially necessary to his gaining admission into the celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides." -Ahimen Rezon, 2003

To tag onto my previous post, this really is a great example of symbolism at work. This passage itself really is pretty straight forward: It plainly and simply refers to the condition that one must be in, in order to gain entry into Heaven. This is a fairly universal belief across many religions. The passage, however, does not discuss "how" one attains that condition--only that the condition exists. Nor does it address the "truth" of any of those "hows". Freemasonry leaves the understanding of the "how" and the "truth" of that "how" to the individual to learn and discover. And the interpretation typically comes from the worldview of the interpreter.

For example, to a Muslim, the "how" is by being faithful to the laws given my Muhammad in the name of Allah. The "truth" lies in their belief in the inerrancey of the Koran. And yet there still is no guarantee because it is ultimately up to God to decide who gains entry.

To a Jew, the "how" really is more about being good and to have a healthy relationship with God, man, and oneself than attaining entrance to Heaven. And the "truth" is found in the Jewish scriptures and laws given to them by God.

To the fundamentalist Christian, the "how" is only by believing in and accepting Christ's sacrifice on the cross. By this act, one's sins are forgiven so that when he stands in judgment and claims Christ as his Savior, his sinfulness is covered by Christ's redemption leaving him pure and innocent in God's eyes. The "truth" is in the Word of God,and through the words of Jesus Christ as written in the Bible. Some Christians, notably Catholics, view the "how" as good works. This viewpoint is debated by some non-Catholic Christians.

(As a side note, in comparing just these three religions, it seems clear to me that the Apron Lecture really applies mostly to the Christian, further giving evidence that Freemasonry, has clear Christian undertones.)

But the problem with all this is that Masonic Attackers typically fail to understand or accept that other perceptions or viewpoints exist outside of the worldview of Christianity. From the Christian perspective, they may be "false" viewpoints, but they exist, none-the-less.

 

[Rev Wayne]

Well stated, Jim.

(As a side note, in comparing just these three religions, it seems clear to me that the Apron Lecture really applies mostly to the Christian, further giving evidence that Freemasonry, has clear Christian undertones.)

Freemasonry arose in a country which was Christian. The only question to be settled as far as religion goes, was, will it be Catholic or Protestant? The earliest manuscripts of Masonry exhibit distinct expressions of Catholic Christianity, some even say they give evidence of being written by a cleric. Later manuscripts (but still pre-modern era date of 1717) show signs of moving toward Protestantism, which probably signalled the persecutions that began from the Catholic church.

There are those who still, despite that clear history, try to insist on a later "Christianization" of Masonry. The evidence indisputably shows it was just the opposite way around. Masonry's archaisms are still one of the strongest evidences of it. "So mote it be" used to be a common Christian prayer form, and being found in usage prior to the Masonic expression of it, it is almost certain that the church is the source from which Masonry derived it. The same is true for the written prayers of Masonry, many of the expressions used in those prayers are directly attributable to the Book of Common Prayer, which was extensively used and widely available in England. Even the language of the rituals reflects Christian usage.

This is true of the apron lecture and the language used there as well. I have presented various examples of the phraseology of Masonry, side-by-side in comparison with the same Christian expressions. Among these are "purity of life" and "rectitude of conduct" as found in some of the various forms of the apron lecture. Another would be the "Vices and superfluities of life," an expression which also gets characterized by accusers as an example of "works righteousness."

The accusation in this instance is really an argument that derives from Christian theology more than anything else. There are branches of Christianity that insist on sola fide, who believe that other branches which make even the scarcest mention of "works" are guilty of some monstrous error. And yet Scripture affirms, even in one of their favorite proof texts (Ephesians 2:8-10), that we are "created unto good works." Confront them with it, and they will insist that "if the faith is there, the works will be also." It does no good, it seems, to point out the obvious to them, that (1) if the works are NOT there, there's something wrong with the claim of faith, as James clearly tells us in his epistle; and (2) that the exhortations unto good works are still very clearly before us throughout the gospels and epistles. Nor does it do any good to point out to them that the phrase "purity of life and rectitude of conduct" does not by necessity denote "works." "Purity of life" for example, generally bespeaks the notion of its synonymous twin phrase "purity of heart," which has to do with one's inner disposition and therefore cannot be construed as "works" to begin with.

But we've been that route with them before, I will not launch into it again here. If the notion garners enough attention to spark a return, though, I will certainly find one of the more detailed engagements of the point where the most salient points have already been thoroughly covered, and post a link.

 

[ChristianMasonJim]

Wayne, very interesting!

And again, I assert that the apron lecture, which Masonic Attackers so consistently and viciously attack, represents the condition one must be in to gain entrance to Heaven, not a method to gain entrance to Heaven as they so often misrepresent. And a Christian should not only recognize that condition very clearly, but also understand the solution through Christ alone.

 

[Skip Sampson]

And again, I assert that the apron lecture, which Masonic Attackers so consistently and viciously attack, represents the condition one must be in to gain entrance to Heaven, not a method to gain entrance to Heaven as they so often misrepresent.

Jim, let us suppose that Adolf Hitler, just in his last dying breath in his bunker, called upon Jesus to save him. Would you expect to see him in heaven given your comments above? Cordially, Skip.

 

[ChristianMasonJim]

Jim, let us suppose that Adolf Hitler, just in his last dying breath in his bunker, called upon Jesus to save him. Would you expect to see him in heaven given your comments above? Cordially, Skip.

Putting any debates about the genuineness of death-bed conversions aside, based on my understanding of salvation by Grace, if Adolf Hitler genuinely confessed his sins and accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior, then yes, I would expect to see him in Heaven. If he was truly saved, then when he is judged by God, God will not see the sins of the man, bit will see the covering of Jesus' redemption ie: the purity and innocence of the sinless. Salvation does not make the sinner a non-sinner, it covers his sins making him sinless in the eyes of God. And thus the interpretation of the apron lecture illustrating this concept.

 

[O.F.F.]

If he was truly saved, then when he is judged by God, God will not see the sins of the man, but will see the covering of Jesus' redemption ie: the purity and innocence of the sinless. Salvation does not make the sinner a non-sinner, it covers his sins making him sinless in the eyes of God. And thus the interpretation of the apron lecture illustrating this concept.

But Jim, what you fail to acknowledge is the fate of the Mason who is not truly saved. I agree, true salvation does not make the sinner a non-sinner. But you must also agree that the Apron Lecture doesn't make a non-Christian a Christian. Yet your comment assumes that it does.

Since your very own Grand Master of South Carolina has affirmed that Freemasonry accepts ALL faiths? What about the non-Christian Mason who puts his trust in his good works for his acceptance from God and for his salvation? All other religions outside of Christianity teach this, and therefore, in light of his own faith, and such an interpretation of the Apron Lecture, it offers him a false promise and a false hope of salvation.

The only way a Christian interpretation of Masonic symbolism can stand as the only valid interpretation, is for Freemasonry to be an exclusively Christian fraternity made up solely of Christians. And, we all know that is not the case. If it were, I would still be one. This is why the Apron Lecture, and many of the other explanations of Masonic symbolism, which are opened to a wide range of interpretations, is so detrimental. They ultimately reinforce the heresy that all paths lead to God.

For a "professing" Christian to persist in Masonry, and hide behind his "own" interpretation, is tacit approval of this heresy; whether he chooses to accept it or not.

 

[Rev Wayne]

The only way a Christian interpretation of Masonic symbolism can stand as the only valid interpretation, is for Freemasonry to be an exclusively Christian fraternity made up solely of Christians.

Same ole error, different day. Of course the Christian interpretation of the symbolism is "valid." It is valid to the Christian. Masonry doesn't present any of its symbols with the intent that a man shall interpret it for anyone else but himself.

By your suggestion, Christians ought not to wear crosses as a Christian symbol, since it is not unique to Christianity, because by the same estimation you used concerning the apron symbolism, the cross would also be deemed "invalid" as a symbol strictly emblematic of Christ's resurrection.

And since you suggest there are other than Christians in the lodges here, how about producing some proof? That accords with another stance you adopted here in regard to African-American members of our lodges, right? No believing the claim until there's proof? You have no proof of what you claimed about non-Christian members of our lodges, so toss it out the window. It has even less "validity" than you allow for the statement I made earlier about African-Americans in our lodges, because with that prior claim, at least there are two evidentiary points to support it, (1) I saw them myself, and (2) Grand Secretary Marsh confirmed it.

 

[ChristianMasonJim]

But Jim, what you fail to acknowledge is the fate of the Mason who is not truly saved. I agree, true salvation does not make the sinner a non-sinner. But you must also agree that the Apron Lecture doesn't make a non-Christian a Christian. Yet your comment assumes that it does.

If you read my comment in the context of my prior comments, you find that I specifically stated that the apron lecture "...does not discuss "how" one attains that condition--only that the condition exists" so I did acknowledge that, however for the record, I will state now: Neither the apron nor the apron lecture makes a non-Christian a Christian.

Since your very own Grand Master of South Carolina has affirmed that Freemasonry accepts ALL faiths? What about the non-Christian Mason who puts his trust in his good works for his acceptance from God and for his salvation? All other religions outside of Christianity teach this, and therefore, in light of his own faith, and such an interpretation of the Apron Lecture, it offers him a false promise and a false hope of salvation.

From a Christian perspective, you are correct, and that is why, as a Christian, it is my duty to evangelize to the non-Christian. But what you fail to acknowledge is that Freemasonry is not speaking solely to Christians, it is speaking to non-Christians as well. And that is where we have our disagreement.

The only way a Christian interpretation of Masonic symbolism can stand as the only valid interpretation, is for Freemasonry to be an exclusively Christian fraternity made up solely of Christians. And, we all know that is not the case. If it were, I would still be one. This is why the Apron Lecture, and many of the other explanations of Masonic symbolism, which are opened to a wide range of interpretations, is so detrimental. They ultimately reinforce the heresy that all paths lead to God.

Your false premise is that a Christian interpretation must "stand as the only valid interpretation" which, is of course false, for Freemasonry speaks to not just Christian men, so therefore multiple interpretations may and do exist for many of Freemasonry's symbols and writings.

For a "professing" Christian to persist in Masonry, and hide behind his "own" interpretation, is tacit approval of this heresy; whether he chooses to accept it or not.

Again, your premise is false because this "heresy" only exists based on one of possibly many interpretations.

 

[O.F.F.]

But what you fail to acknowledge is that Freemasonry is not speaking solely to Christians, it is speaking to non-Christians as well.

Jim, go back and read my post, this is precisely my point. Since Freemasonry speaks to both Christians and non-Christians about what is "essentially necessary to gain admission" into heaven, it speaks HERESY because Christ IS NOT mentioned in the Apron Lecture. And Jesus is purposely NOT specifically mentioned AT ALL in Masonic ritual, so that it (the ritual) and all its symbolism CAN be interpreted by ALL religions, including Christianity. That's what makes it HERETICAL!

Your false premise is that a Christian interpretation must "stand as the only valid interpretation" which, is of course false, for Freemasonry speaks to not just Christian men, so therefore multiple interpretations may and do exist for many of Freemasonry's symbols and writings.

There is NO false premise on my part; as a former Mason I know perfectly well that Masonic symbolism is opened to, and welcomes, any interpretation from the perspective of any religion. Again, that's what makes it HERETICAL! You can't claim that the Apron Lecture alludes to salvation though Jesus Christ alone, and at the same time say it can be viewed as a means to salvation by any Mason from a non-Christian religion, and affirm that either interpretation is valid.

There is only ONE way to heaven (John 14:6) and since Freemasonry allows any belief of any path to God it allows heresy. As a result, any professing "Christian" that insist on being a Mason supports such heresy. And, since you profess to be a Christian and a Mason, your comments in defense of it proves that point.

By your suggestion, Christians ought not to wear crosses as a Christian symbol, since it is not unique to Christianity, because by the same estimation you used concerning the apron symbolism, the cross would also be deemed "invalid" as a symbol strictly emblematic of Christ's resurrection.

First of all, the cross is a symbol of Christ's crucifixion, not His resurrection. Secondly, your logic is flawed in that the cross is not presented in a formal 'ritual' to any group, I'm aware of, whose members are mixed with people of different religious faiths; that are allowed to interpret it from the vantage point of their own religion; including those outside of Christianity. If it were, as far as I'm concern, the group would as heretical as Freemasonry.

Thirdly, and most importantly, the Apron Lecture is strictly unique to Freemasonry. And given what it suggests to all Masons, regardless of their religious persuasion, it proves that Freemasonry teaches heresy from a biblical perspective.

And since you suggest there are other than Christians in the lodges here, how about producing some proof?

First of all Jim, a Mason from South Carolina, just stated in the context of the Apron Lecture, which I assume he is only referring to how it is applied in his jurisdiction that:

From a Christian perspective, you are correct, and that is why, as a Christian, it is my duty to evangelize to the non-Christian.

If there are ONLY Christians in the lodges in South Carolina, there would be no need for him to feel the need to "evangelize to the non-Christian" Masons in his jurisdiction.

Secondly, since your Grand Master is the only authority to speak for Freemasonry in his jurisdiction, and NOT you or Mr. Marsh, I assume there are non-Christians in lodges there. Why? Because he told me, personally, that all faiths are welcomed in his jurisdiction. Besides, you cannot claim that only Christians attend Masonic lodges — anywhere — any more than you can claim that only Christians attend churches — everywhere — to include South Carolina.

One thing we both know for sure is that, in an orthodox Christian church, there is only ONE clear message being proclaimed to believers and non-believers alike; and that is the gospel of Jesus Christ. And, there is NO room for interpretation as to Him — and Him alone — being the ONLY way to heaven. That claim, of course, can NEVER be made by any Masonic lodge in America; let alone in South Carolina.

It has even less "validity" than you allow for the statement I made earlier about African-Americans in our lodges, because with that prior claim, at least there are two evidentiary points to support it, (1) I saw them myself, and (2) Grand Secretary Marsh confirmed it.

First of all, your "evidentiary points" don't prove a thing. If you actually "saw them" I am sure a man of God like yourself would have made it a point to "meet" and "greet" them. And, in doing so, you would have learned their names, where they're from, and what lodge they belong to. Therefore, you would have been able to ask them to happily come here to confirm their existence. Maybe you didn't care to meet them, or the situation in which you "saw them" didn't allow it. Either way, you have yet to prove there are black Masons in your jurisdiction.

Secondly, as I mentioned before, if anyone can produce proof of African-American membership, surely your Grand Secretary can. That assumes, of course, that your Grand Lodge requires racial data to be collected from its applications for membership. Or, perhaps he knows the secretaries of the lodges these black men you claim you "saw." Either way, until either of you provide real PROOF that these few "tokens" exist, all you have been giving us is a bunch of hearsay.

 

[ChristianMasonJim]

Secondly, as I mentioned before, if anyone can produce proof of African-American membership, surely your Grand Secretary can. That assumes, of course, that your Grand Lodge requires racial data to be collected from its applications for membership. Or, perhaps he knows the secretaries of the lodges these black men you claim you "saw." Either way, until either of you provide real PROOF that these few "tokens" exist, all you have been giving us is a bunch of hearsay.

The Grand Lodge of South Carolina does NOT prohibit membership by any Black man in ANY lodge in South Carolina. That is a fact. If a Black man wants to petition a lodge in South Carolina, he is free to do so. Whether he is elected to join is up to the membership of the local lodge.

The Grand Lodge of South Carolina DOES recognize ANY Blank man who is a member of ANY recognized regular lodge. That is fact. Should a Black Mason desire admittance into a South Carolina Lodge, his admittance is up to the discretion of the Worshipful Master.

The Grand Lodge of South Carolina does NOT recognize Prince Hall Freemasons as being regular. That is a fact. Any member of a Prince Hall lodge who wants to gain admittance to a regular lodge will be turned away.

There are many White Prince Hall Freemasons around the world. That is a fact. Because the Grand Lodge of South Carolina does not recognize Prince Hall Freemasons as regular, they therefore do not recognize those men as well.

 

[O.F.F.]

Jim,

I'd rather stick to the heretical teachings at this time; as in the Apron Lecture. We know racism exist in Masonry on both sides, but the fact that the majority of the Confederate states still do not recognize Prince Hall Masonry speaks volumes.
Racism is terrible, and it is certainly not Christian, but it is not heretical from a biblical doctrinal perspective; yet the Apron Lecture and other Masonic symbolism is very heretical. Besides, unlike Wayne, you've never mentioned ever seeing any black Masons in the lodges you've attended in South Carolina. In fact, he has never seen any in the lodges he's attended there either; just supposedly at a golf tournament a few years ago. It would be sufficient proof to me to just see a few pictures of some in Masonic regalia on your Grand Lodge website, but none can be found there either.

 

[Skip Sampson]

And thus the interpretation of the apron lecture illustrating this concept.

Could you explain that a bit more? Your going-in concept on the Apron lecture was that

I assert that the apron lecture, ... represents the condition one must be in to gain entrance to Heaven,

How did Adolf gain that condition in the few moments before his demise? Cordially, Skip.

 

[Rev Wayne]

It's called imputed, I'm surprised that the pseudo-scholars continuing this non-issue have not heard of it.