The Age of the Universe

[Michael]

I wonder why the gas station keeps charging me for gas since it's all a 'net zero' amount of energy I'm getting from them anyway, at least according to Hawking. I wonder how my car does all that work with a net zero amount of energy in the tank?

 

[Davian]

Do you consider Hawking not to be an authority on astrophysics? It's not a fallacy if the person is an actual authority on the subject.

Not exactly, <snip straw-man>

lol. Do you start to believe your own straw-man arguments now?

I didn't fail. Alfven did win the Nobel, and he also wrote over 100 papers related to astrophysics.

Dodge and another fail, again with the fallacious appeal to authority. If he wrote 1000 papers, would he be even more believable? 10000?

 

[Davian]

Imagine me trying to ridicule your questions about God, and how impressed you'd be by it. That's about as effective as that argument.

You could try to ridicule my questions about god, but on what would you base it? How can you show that I am wrong?

 

[Davian]

I wonder why the gas station keeps charging me for gas since it's all a 'net zero' amount of energy I'm getting from them anyway, at least according to Hawking. I wonder how my car does all that work with a net zero amount of energy in the tank?

Burn the Strawmen

• Davian
• Apr 9, 2014

 

[Michael]

Burn the Strawmen

• Davian
• Apr 9, 2014

It's not really even a strawman in the final analysis. Hawking is claiming that the entire universe has a "net zero" amount of energy and that gravity is somehow a "negative" form of energy. That's pure nonsense as demonstrated by basic chemistry, and yet that nonsense is being spewed by someone that you're claiming is an expert in astrophysics. Alfven never said anything that ridiculous.

 

[Michael]

You could try to ridicule my questions about god, but on what would you base it? How can you show that I am wrong?

Same set of questions about Hawking's dark energy deity, and his mythical magical "net zero" energy universe.

 

[Michael]

lol. Do you start to believe your own straw-man arguments now?

No, I believe your so called "expert" isn't much of an expert on astrophysics. He can't name so much as a single source of dark energy, nor can he explain how "gravity' somehow cancels out all the energy from "dark energy".

Dodge and another fail, again with the fallacious appeal to authority. If he wrote 1000 papers, would he be even more believable? 10000?

The important part is that his beliefs actually work in the lab, which is why he won the Nobel for MHD theory, and that's also the key difference between their two beliefs about the universe. One set of ideas is based upon *empirical physics*, whereas the other person's beliefs are based on mostly invisible sky entities which are entirely impotent on planet Earth. One person claims the universe is full of energy which is consistent with the sun shining on my face, while the other is spewing "net zero energy" nonsense, and wild claims about gravity being a negative energy, while ignoring energy use over time entirely, including all chemical energy.

 

[joshua 1 9]

All of the references I have read state that none of the gospel writers were disciples, nor did they ever meet Jesus. Luke and Matthew plagiarize Mark for the most part.

I have never seen anyone so misinformed in my whole life. I mean I know about the apostasy and revisionism but I did not know that it has gone this far. By far and away this is evidence of the soon return of Jesus. You are living, walking talking evidence that we are very close to the end of the current era that we are living in right now.

 

[Davian]

It's not really even a strawman in the final analysis. Hawking is claiming that the entire universe has a "net zero" amount of energy and that gravity is somehow a "negative" form of energy.

It is my understanding that he is building on the works of others. I get the impression that you are not familiar with modern cosmology, your protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.

 

[Davian]

Same.

I do not know that your gods are the same as those scientific concepts. I am only aware of gods as characters in books.

No, I believe your so called "expert" isn't much of an expert on astrophysics. He can't name so much as a single source of dark energy, nor can he explain how "gravity' somehow cancels out all the energy from "dark energy".

Lucky for him that he need not address your straw-man arguments to be seen as credible in the real world.

The important part is that his beliefs actually work in the lab,

Still stuck in the lab? When you can convince the crowd at Cosmoquest, or the like, let me know.

 

[Michael]

It is my understanding that he is building on the works of others.

If by others, you means this completely *misguided* clan that begins with Pope Guth, and his generation? Prior to Guth's introduction of pure pseudoscience into cosmology theory, it really wasn't that bad. These days however, we have Pope Guth claiming 5+ sigma Bicep2 claims are "Nobel Prize Worthy", only to have the whole claim turn to dust in mere months. It's like watching the Keystone Cops.

I get the impression that you are not familiar with modern cosmology, your protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.

I'm old enough to be familiar with both modern cosmology claims, as well as less modern ideas. Most folks don't even understand the problems with mainstream theory, let alone have any idea of what alternatives might exist.

Most folks are like you, blissfully unaware of what the mainstream models are *actually* based upon, namely an affirming the consequent fallacy, followed by a healthy dose of confirmation bias.

 

[Michael]

I do not know that your gods are the same as those scientific concepts. I am only aware of gods as characters in books.

Hawking's dark energy, invisible sky entity is an impotent character in a book about a mythical creation event. It serves *no other useful purpose* in physics and it remains *utterly impotent* on Earth. That's about as fictional as it gets, particularly after they admitted that "standard candles" used to support their claims about dark energy aren't actually 'standard' after all. Holy smokes! The whole thing is a metaphysical house of cards that's falling down as we speak.

Lucky for him that he need not address your straw-man arguments to be seen as credible in the real world.

Lucky indeed. He'd wilt under the pressure in no time.

Still stuck in the lab?

What exactly was your beef with people having "faith' in God without laboratory evidence again?

When you can convince the crowd at Cosmoquest, or the like, let me know.

Yawn. When they stop holding online witch hunts and they actually allow for real and honest dialog, let me know.

 

[joshua 1 9]

What is amazing is that you can proclaim it is a true story with no evidence to back it up. You are the one who claims that the gospels are true. It is your job to prove it.

I will pass. You have already demonstrated that you do not know enough about the Bible to have a conversation about it. We better stick to science, as you may know a little bit more about that subject.

 

[joshua 1 9]

All of the references

When you were in school did you ever actually read the book or did you just get by trying to read the quick notes on the book you were suppose to study? Perhaps you should read the Bible for yourself with the Help of the HOLY Spirit of God to guide and lead you into all truth. The people that your turning to for help seem to not be doing your understanding any good.

 

[Davian]

If by others, you means this completely *misguided* clan

Not Hawking's, then.

I'm old enough to be familiar with both modern cosmology claims, as well as less modern ideas.

Yet you still seem unfamiliar with them.

Most folks don't even understand the problems with mainstream theory, let alone have any idea of what alternatives might exist.

Or care.

Most folks are like you,

Are you telling me how I think?

blissfully unaware of what the mainstream models are *actually* based upon,

As are you, based on what you post here.

 

[Davian]

Hawking's dark energy,

Hawking conceived the idea of dark energy? Were you there?

What exactly was your beef with people having "faith' in God without laboratory evidence again?

What is a "god"?

Yawn. When they stop holding online witch hunts and they actually allow for real and honest dialog, let me know.

lol.

 

[Michael]

Not Hawking's, then.

Oh ya, it's the very clan and the very same dogma, complete with the inflation deity, the space expansion deity, the dark energy entity, and of course the ever shy around the lab "dark matter" thingy.

Yet you still seem unfamiliar with them.

Your problem is that I'm *more* familiar with their ideas than you are, and I know where all their skeletons are buried. When the mainstream insists that their beliefs are based on Hubble's redshift findings, they don't bother to tell you that Hubble himself *rejected* their theory. It's minor like "issues" like that which the mainstream fails to acknowledge or explain to anyone "new" to the ideas.

Or care.

Ya, it's amazing that evangelical atheists seem to "care" about the topic of "God", but they apply completely different standards to the idea than any concept in "science".

Are you telling me how I think?

Nah, it was actually a generic observation. You're certainly not alone in 'not caring', that's for darn sure.

 

[Michael]

Hawking conceived the idea of dark energy? Were you there?

Nah, he just mindlessly promotes that bogus claim like the rest of the mainstream. Never mind the fact that their "standard candles" were found to not be "standard" as they claimed, they're still clinging to their original numbers and claims anyway. It's a belief system that constantly requires one to simply bury their heads in the sand every time their theory bites the dust, and/or the claims fall apart.

What is a "god"?

It's the thing that people pray to on a daily basis, and the thing that changes their lives according to their testimonies.

A better question would be: What is "dark matter"? Based on results from LHC, LUX, PandaX and those electron roundness 'predictive tests" that they performed and failed, It's apparently the most impotent and invisible form of matter in the universe.

 

[Loudmouth]

When you were in school did you ever actually read the book or did you just get by trying to read the quick notes on the book you were suppose to study? Perhaps you should read the Bible for yourself with the Help of the HOLY Spirit of God to guide and lead you into all truth. The people that your turning to for help seem to not be doing your understanding any good.

I grew up in the church. I have read the entire bible many times over.

 

[Loudmouth]

I have never seen anyone so misinformed in my whole life. I mean I know about the apostasy and revisionism but I did not know that it has gone this far. By far and away this is evidence of the soon return of Jesus. You are living, walking talking evidence that we are very close to the end of the current era that we are living in right now.

What evidence do you have that the gospels were written by the disciples?