The ability of God - Does God always get His will done?

[Kermos]

The ability of God to save man is exclusively God's. Man can not choose God. God chooses man.

The following posts of this thread are richly laden in the Word of God.

Revealing the links between John 17:20, John 15:16, and John 15:13-15 post

Paul wrote that God is the potter and we are the clay (Romans 9:18-29), but free-willians denounce the words of Paul post

Free-willians false claim that God is responsible sin in sinners (what some call cognitive dissonance) post in this thread

Neiher the IF/THEN logic conditional contruct nor a command conveys ability post along with the how the account of Cain and Abel relates with the IF/THEN logic post along with A BIBLICAL DECLARATION OF ABILITY AND INABILITY - CAPABILITY EXAMINED with COMMANDS EXPOSE GOOD AND EVIL - NOT CAPABILITY post

contrasting the old nature and the new nature post

debunking the Free-willian "sadistic cruel deity" and "spiritual rape" absurdities post

salvation and fruit, both are the acts of God alone post then expaonding into coalescing (1) fruit of the Spirit, (2) God's exclusive choosing of men, and (3) being a friend of Jesus

Our merciful and loving God is Benefactor, and we believers are beneficiaries post

Free-willians are outside of saving grace for they cannot please God (Romans 8:8) as well as they cannot understand spiritual things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14) unless God opens their eyes post

the unrighteous precepts of men includes "free will", a.k.a. "free choice", toward God post

the error of Armenians/Free-willians exposed post

The accurate grammatical structure of Revelation 13:8 analyzed post, and do not neglect the parallel in Revelation 17:8 and Matthew 25:34!

the meaning of "receive" post with application in Acts 2:38-39 and the subsequent we believers receive the Holy Spirit post

the "whoever believes" in John 3:16 is constrained by "believe" definition in John 6:29 and the "world" in John 17:9 has implications for "world" in John 3:16 post

"choose whom you will serve" in Joshua 24:15 does not indicate ability to serve God post

repentance is of/by/from God in man with accurate BIBLICAL CITATIONS post

"free will" does not occur in the New Testament except in Philemon 1:14 as an illusory metaphor post

"free will" and "self will" exist in a tightly-coupled relationship, see 2 Peter 2:9-10 and Philemon 1:14, post

proclaiming the gospel where there is no "free will"

The "you" occurrances in John 15:16 is the same as "you" occurrances in John 15:13-15 and John 15:16 and John 14:16-17 which are for all us believers in all time post. This is Love!

We believers on the Lord Jesus Christ receive the most valuable Treasure according to God's good pleasure!

Praise be to God who saves wicked men.

 

[renniks]

Actually, the natural man's state defaults to rebellion against the Word of God as demonstrated in this post in this thread; furthermore, it is written that the natural man is outside of saving grace for the he cannot please God (Romans 8:8) as well as he cannot understand spiritual things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14) unless God opens his eyes post in this thread.

If Free Will doesn't exist, then it's God's will for them to be in rebellion. Is God rebelling against himself?

 

[renniks]

Man, you are seriously confusing matters, renniks. You wrote "We have not done anything to deserve his mercy" which is a blatant contradiction to your claim of your free will choice toward your god.

Choosing God doesn't make one deserving of mercy. It's just a condition God requires before he will save us.

 

[renniks]

It's not people's choice for there is no indication of such.

"turn from your evil ways, each one of you, and reform your ways and your actions.’ 12 But they will reply, ‘It’s no use We will continue with our own plans; we will all follow the stubbornness of our evil hearts."

You are opposing God. He places all the blame on the people choices.

 

[renniks]

Now, Paul brings in the individual salvation aspect with "He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?' On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God

This is in reference to God's plan of salvation, worked through Israel, as evidenced by mention of past events. The objector who says " who resists his will?" Is obviously a rebel Jew. Notice that Paul confirms that we can resist his will, else we could not talk back to God. In reference to individual salvation, Paul confirms that faith is the catalyst.

 

[Kermos]

If Free Will doesn't exist, then it's God's will for them to be in rebellion. Is God rebelling against himself?

No, God is not rebelling against God. The natural man's default state is rebellion against the Word of God as demonstrated in this post in this thread; furthermore, it is written that the natural man is outside of saving grace for the he cannot please God (Romans 8:8) as well as he cannot understand spiritual things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14) unless God opens his eyes post in this thread.

The absence of repentance for your roll on the floor lots of laughs (ROTFLOL) mocks the Word of God, and God does not tolerate such mockery without punishment (Galatians 6:7-8). Your self will is arrogance and pride against God (2 Peter 2:9-10).

You are in rebellion in your claimed free will choice toward God - you against the Word of God Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

Choosing God doesn't make one deserving of mercy. It's just a condition God requires before he will save us.

No, you cannot choose the One True God because the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19). Your "requirement" is a man-made precept for which the Word of God says "IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN" (Matthew 15:9).

Your claim of "choosing" or "free will" is a work, after all, you think you are putting your faith into something, and I tell you that you are not putting your faith in the One True God because the God states that faith/belief is the work of God in "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29). The Word of God says a man's good works "may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21). Not your works, renniks, your works are wrought in yourself.

"turn from your evil ways, each one of you, and reform your ways and your actions.’ 12 But they will reply, ‘It’s no use We will continue with our own plans; we will all follow the stubbornness of our evil hearts."

You are opposing God. He places all the blame on the people choices.

It appears that did not read that which you posted there, renniks. That states "your actions" not choices, in fact, there is no "choices" in Jeremiah 18:11-12, but there is a command, yet a command does not convey ability (post in this thread). Then it continues with "stubbornness" which is analogous with rebellion. THIS PASSAGE INCLUDES A DESCRIPTION OF PEOPLE WHO CLAIM THE WORK OF A CHOICE TOWARD GOD!

The self-willed only make wrong choices about salvation (2 Peter 2:9-10). God raises the dead to life thus we living in the Spirit bear fruit of the Spirit (John 15:5, John 15:16, Galatians 5:22-23) including ackknowledging God for God's intrinsic quality of exclusively choosing men (Proverbs 3:5-6, John 15:16, John 15:19).

You see, you oppose God because Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19). Your claimed "choice toward God" is a man-made precept for which the Word of God says "IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN" (Matthew 15:9).

 

[PuerAzaelis]

If Free Will doesn't exist, then it's God's will for them to be in rebellion. Is God rebelling against himself?

Augustine says (Contra Julian. i, 9): "There is no possible source of evil except good."

ST Ia Q. 49 — Aquinas 101

 

[Kermos]

This is in reference to God's plan of salvation, worked through Israel, as evidenced by mention of past events. The objector who says " who resists his will?" Is obviously a rebel Jew. Notice that Paul confirms that we can resist his will, else we could not talk back to God. In reference to individual salvation, Paul confirms that faith is the catalyst.

The passage written by Paul in Romans chapter nine serves multiple purposes; specifically, the progression of the chapter is very clear, and here it is:

A - The early part of God's plan revealed.

B - Individual salvation completely dependent on God with NO work by man in salvation.

C - The grafting of the Gentiles into Israel, but Paul does not out leave individual salvation.

D - The final sentence of the chapter returning to individual salvation "HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED" (Romans 9:33).

When Paul wrote of "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated" (Romans 9:13) there Paul is about the actual individuals, that is Jacob and Esau the inheritance of whom became known as Edom. I can write "heritage" for Esau because this all refers back to Malachi 1:2-3 where the Word of God states:

2 "I have loved you," says the LORD. But you say, "How have You loved us?" "[Was] not Esau Jacob's brother?" declares the LORD. "Yet I have loved Jacob;
3 but I have hated Esau, and I have made his mountains a desolation and [appointed] his inheritance for the jackals of the wilderness."

Thus, the Word of God focuses on the individuals of Jacob and Esau then moves on to the the inheritance rapidly.

In both Romans 9:13 and Malachi 1:2 the name Jacob is used - not the newer name of Israel but the first name of Jacob because this refers to the individuals in this instance.

While Paul write of Israel and Gentiles in Romans 9:30-33, that does not negate that Paul wrote of individual salvation in Romans 9:11-23 becuase Paul starts off the passage about the twins, the individuals, with these words "for though [the twins] were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to [His] choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls" (Romans 9:11).

You desperately try to erase the absolute meaning of Paul that it's not that man that wills but the God who has mercy (Romans 9:16).

In essence, you persist with "Why did you make me like this" just as Paul wrote.

As a result, Paul agrees that you are in rebellion in your claimed free will choice toward God - you against the Word of God Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

 

[renniks]

Augustine says (Contra Julian. i, 9): "There is no possible source of evil except good."

ST Ia Q. 49 — Aquinas 101

I don't follow Augustine. He was messed up on several topics.

 

[renniks]

The absence of repentance for your roll on the floor lots of laughs (ROTFLOL) mocks the Word of God, and God does not tolerate such mockery without punishment (Galatians 6:7-8). Your self will is arrogance and pride against God (2 Peter 2:9-10).

I was laughing at your absurd contradictions, not God's Word.

 

[renniks]

appears that did not read that which you posted there, renniks. That states "your actions" not choices, in fact, there is no "choices" in Jeremiah 18:11-12, but there is a command, yet a command does not convey ability (post in this thread). Then it continues with "stubbornness" which is analogous with rebellion. THIS PASSAGE INCLUDES A DESCRIPTION OF PEOPLE WHO CLAIM THE WORK OF A CHOICE TOWARD GOD!

Nonsensical nonsense. You can't have actions without choices. I choose to get up in the morning. I choose to eat, or choose not to. Nothing happens without choices.

 

[renniks]

While Paul write of Israel and Gentiles in Romans 9:30-33, that does not negate that Paul wrote of individual salvation in Romans 9:11-23 becuase Paul starts off the passage about the twins, the individuals, with these words "for though [the twins] were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to [His] choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls" (Romans 9:11).

The twins were chosen for different jobs, not salvation. We don't know that Esau wasn't saved.

 

[Kermos]

I was laughing at your absurd contradictions, not God's Word.

Nope, the following two paragraphs are that which you wrote ROTFLLOL about. Notice you claimed to roll on the floor laughing at (1) Romans 9:16, (2) Romans 9:13, and (3) John 15:16 - with the third instance being the Word of God speaking! You mock the Word of God, and God does not tolerate such mockery without punishment (Galatians 6:7-8).

Issac. Issac. You don't even know who is who. You cannot possibly know the meaning of the scripture. Paul wrote "it [does] not [depend] on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy" (Romans 9:16), so it's "not on the man who wills" - that's you renniks for you claim that you can will toward God, but the Apostle says it's "not on the man who wills". The only indication that this is about leadership; on the other hand, the Apostle Paul says it is about man dependence on God's mercy. The Apostle says it's "on God who has mercy"; therefore, IT IS ABOUT SALVATION. BY THE ROMANS 9:16 IS AFTER ROMANS 9:13 WHICH MENTIONS ESAU, SO THIS IS LATER WHERE PAUL EXPLAINS SALVATION.

As a result, Paul agrees that you are in rebellion in your claimed free will choice toward God - you against the Word of God Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

 

[Kermos]

Nonsensical nonsense. You can't have actions without choices. I choose to get up in the morning. I choose to eat, or choose not to. Nothing happens without choices.

You have no Bible verse for "You can't have actions without choices" in the context of "choosing toward God"; therefore, you are deceiving yourself (2 Timothy 3:13). You are adding to scripture and subtracting from scripture with you assertions about "choices toward God" (Revelation 22:18-19) such that your assertion that Jeremiah 18:11-12 contains choice is false as well as evidence of you adding choice" to scripture (whether you want to call the adding of concept/words "implication" or any other method of adding).

As I previously wrote, it appears that you did not read that which you posted there, renniks. Here is the citation you provided again "Thus says YHWH, 'Behold, I am fashioning calamity against you and devising a plan against you. Oh turn back, each of you from his evil way, and reform your ways and your deeds.' But they will say, 'It's hopeless! For we are going to follow our own plans, and each of us will act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart'" (Jeremiah 18:11-12). That states "your deeds" not choices, in fact, there is no "choices" in Jeremiah 18:11-12, but there is a command, yet a command does not convey ability (post in this thread). Then it continues with "stubbornness" which is analogous with rebellion. THIS PASSAGE INCLUDES A DESCRIPTION OF PEOPLE WHO CLAIM THE WORK OF A CHOICE TOWARD GOD!

The self-willed only make wrong choices about salvation (2 Peter 2:9-10). God raises the dead to life thus we living in the Spirit bear fruit of the Spirit (John 15:5, John 15:16, Galatians 5:22-23) including acknowledging God for God's intrinsic quality of exclusively choosing men (Proverbs 3:5-6, John 15:16, John 15:19).

You see, you oppose God because Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19). Your claimed "choice toward God" is a man-made precept for which the Word of God says "IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN" (Matthew 15:9).

 

[renniks]

Nope, the following two paragraphs are that which you wrote ROTFLLOL about. Notice you claimed to roll on the floor laughing at (1) Romans 9:16, (2) Romans 9:13, and (3) John 15:16 - with the third instance being the Word of God speaking! You mock the Word of God, and God does not tolerate such mockery without punishment (Galatians 6:7-8).

Issac. Issac. You don't even know who is who. You cannot possibly know the meaning of the scripture. Paul wrote "it [does] not [depend] on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy" (Romans 9:16), so it's "not on the man who wills" - that's you renniks for you claim that you can will toward God, but the Apostle says it's "not on the man who wills". The only indication that this is about leadership; on the other hand, the Apostle Paul says it is about man dependence on God's mercy. The Apostle says it's "on God who has mercy"; therefore, IT IS ABOUT SALVATION. BY THE ROMANS 9:16 IS AFTER ROMANS 9:13 WHICH MENTIONS ESAU, SO THIS IS LATER WHERE PAUL EXPLAINS SALVATION.
Sigh. You said:
"As a result, Paul agrees that you are in rebellion in your claimed free will choice toward God - you against the Word of God Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16)".

John 15:16).
I said;" ROTFLOL. Here you manage to contradict yourself in the same sentence! How can I be in rebellion if I have no choices? I can't be against the Word of God if God is irrisistably causing everything I do. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either free will is real or there's no such thing as rebellion."
I CAN'T BE IN REBELLION IF I HAVE NO FREE WILL!!!
What is hard to understand about that?

 

[renniks]

You have no Bible verse for "You can't have actions without choices" in the context of "choosing toward God"; therefore, you are deceiving yourself

"Choose you this day whom you will serve."
Serve is an action.

 

[Kermos]

The twins were chosen for different jobs, not salvation. We don't know that Esau wasn't saved.

Oh, how it appears you cherish your supposed self-will choice toward God (a work of man, a work of you, renniks) that you try to rewrite the scripture with new words and deleting words. You try to limit the meaning to "jobs", yet the Apostle Paul wrote of a specific progression that includes that part of God's plan that includes individual salvation in "it is written, 'JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.' What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! For He says to Moses, 'I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.' So then it [does] not [depend] on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy" (Romans 9:13-16).

Paul mentions mercy of God in the passage. God is merciful to save any rebellious creature. But, wait, that's not all Paul wrote, for here are the next two verses:

"For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, 'FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.' So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires" (Romans 9:17-18).

Now, renniks, Paul wrote "He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires" (Romans 9:18), and that is about individual salvation and individual condemnation. RESTRICTING THE PASSAGE EXCLUSIVELY TO "JOBS" IS DARKNESS.

This put Paul in agreement with the recorded words of the Apostle Peter where he wrote of the self-willed "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in [its] corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

In essence, you persist with "Why did you make me like this" just as Paul wrote (Romans 9:20).

As a result, Paul agrees that you are in rebellion in your claimed self will choice toward God - you against the Word of God Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

 

[renniks]

You are adding to scripture and subtracting from scripture with you assertions about "choices toward God"

You are the one adding pagan fatalism to scripture. No where does scripture deny Free Will. In fact, the whole Bible assumes it to be reality.

 

[renniks]

Oh turn back, each of you from his evil way, and reform your ways and your deeds.'

This, to any functioning logical adult, implies that the ones he is addressing are able to do what he asked. If not, you have the god of Muslims or of many fatalistic false religions, not Jehovah.

 

[Kermos]

John 15:16).
I said;" ROTFLOL. Here you manage to contradict yourself in the same sentence! How can I be in rebellion if I have no choices? I can't be against the Word of God if God is irrisistably causing everything I do. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either free will is real or there's no such thing as rebellion."
I CAN'T BE IN REBELLION IF I HAVE NO FREE WILL!!!
What is hard to understand about that?

You are having a terribly difficult time understanding that Lord Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) then you turn around skipping all the times that I've written of the default nature of men is enimity against God (post in this thread) and that God must do a work in man unto salvation (post in this thread). This has been the consistent message that God has me here proclaiming.

When you write "I CAN'T BE IN REBELLION IF I HAVE NO FREE WILL!!!" you are effectively writing "Why did you make me like this" just as Paul asserts about people denying the Power of God (Romans 9:20).

As a result, Paul agrees that you are in rebellion in your claimed free will choice toward God - you against the Word of God Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).