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The A & P

Saint Steven

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Who is the Holy Spirit? Is He not the third person of the triune Godhead. Is He not God?

When God the Holy Spirit convicts your heart of sin, is He, that is God, calling for repentance?
It's so funny when you talk down to me as if I know nothing. - lol
Every Universalist I have ever met is smarter than the average Bear, Yogi.
Or maybe you think you need to talk all religious to me for some reason. ???
Can't we just be friends and talk like normal people would?
Or maybe you don't want to associate with "my kind". ???

Anyway, don't you see a difference between a "call" and a "calling"?
 
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Saint Steven

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@Charlie24
Here you go buddy.

Notice the balanced statements here.
"the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation"
"the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life"
"by one man's disobedience many were made sinners" (how many were made sinners?)
"by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous"

Romans 5:18-19 KJV
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
 
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Charlie24

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I'm typically using the NIV unless otherwise specified.

You're pretty funny. You pick your favorite translation (not misleading) and then explain it away. - lol

It says, "the free gift came upon all men", but then you ask, "What does Peter say we must do to receive the free gift?" Nothing. It already CAME upon all men. Hello?

As if to say, "It's a FREE gift; here are the conditions..." I thought you said it was free. ??? (free means NO strings attached)
If you are correct then every one on earth has received the Holy Spirit.

It's free just as Peter said, you're calling him a liar not me.
 
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Charlie24

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It's so funny when you talk down to me as if I know nothing. - lol
Every Universalist I have ever met is smarter than the average Bear, Yogi.
Or maybe you think you need to talk all religious to me for some reason. ???
Can't we just be friends and talk like normal people would?
Or maybe you don't want to associate with "my kind". ???

Anyway, don't you see a difference between a "call" and a "calling"?
It wasn't very thoughtful on your part to ask that question. Maybe I expect to much.
 
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Charlie24

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@Charlie24
Here you go buddy.

Notice the balanced statements here.
"the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation"
"the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life"
"by one man's disobedience many were made sinners" (how many were made sinners?)
"by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous"

Romans 5:18-19 KJV
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
You just can't accept the fact that one must repent to become righteous.

That is a fundamental teaching of scripture. If you can't see that we are wasting our time.
 
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Saint Steven

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If you are correct then every one on earth has received the Holy Spirit.

It's free just as Peter said, you're calling him a liar not me.
Or it is a seed that hasn't sprouted yet in many cases.
 
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Saint Steven

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It wasn't very thoughtful on your part to ask that question. Maybe I expect to much.
Which question are you referring to?

Saint Steven said:
It's so funny when you talk down to me as if I know nothing. - lol
Every Universalist I have ever met is smarter than the average Bear, Yogi.
Or maybe you think you need to talk all religious to me for some reason. ???
Can't we just be friends and talk like normal people would?
Or maybe you don't want to associate with "my kind". ???

Anyway, don't you see a difference between a "call" and a "calling"?
 
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Saint Steven

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You just can't accept the fact that one must repent to become righteous.

That is a fundamental teaching of scripture. If you can't see that we are wasting our time.
Once again, you misunderstand the greater hope. Repentance is vital.

You seemed to claim that Universalism has no scriptural basis.
Can't you see what this one is telling us?

Romans 5:18-19 KJV
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
 
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Saint Steven

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Well, we didn't accomplish anything but that is to be expected on such a subject.

I appreciate your time and thank you for a good conversation.

I'm sure we'll have have more conversation down the road. Thanks
Nonsense. I think you are beginning to understand at least the surface level of the greater hope.

Yes, thanks for the discussion. Let's continue when you are ready. Stop in any time.

If you prefer to read rather than watch YouTube videos, this is highly recommended.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin
 
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Saint Steven

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GOD THE LORD, OR OWNER OF MEN
3. All men, of right, belong to God.

"Behold, all souls are mine," saith the Lord. "As the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine." Ezek. 18:4

God will not give up what belongeth to him, to the dominion of sin and Satan forever. All men are God's by creation; he made them all. They are his by preservation; he sustains them all. They were his at first, and they always have remained in his care. "The earth is the Lord's, and the fullness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein." That God, who says to men, "If any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith and is worse than an infidel," can never abandon his own creatures. He will ever exercise a gracious care over them, as will be more fully seen in the following reasons.

From:
100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind
by Thomas Whittemore
See introductory statement in post #14 of this topic. Thanks.

read:100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind
 
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Charlie24

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Once again, you misunderstand the greater hope. Repentance is vital.

You seemed to claim that Universalism has no scriptural basis.
Can't you see what this one is telling us?

Romans 5:18-19 KJV
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
I can plainly see the free gift is there for whosoever, but for sure all men will not repent to receive it.

I can plainly see that we were all made sinners, but for sure all men will not be made righteous without repenting.
 
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Saint Steven

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I can plainly see the free gift is there for whosoever, but for sure all men will not repent to receive it.

I can plainly see that we were all made sinners, but for sure all men will not be made righteous without repenting.
That was NOT a rebuttal.
Once again, this is in agreement with the greater hope.
 
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Charlie24

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Nonsense. I think you are beginning to understand at least the surface level of the greater hope.

Yes, thanks for the discussion. Let's continue when you are ready. Stop in any time.

If you prefer to read rather than watch YouTube videos, this is highly recommended.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin
Barking up the wrong tree, but thanks. I'll come back when you build that foundation.
 
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Saint Steven

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"The greater hope" is that intended to be the opposite of "the damnation story."
I wouldn't say "the opposite". More like with a happy ending.

You've read the bible, or a good deal of it, I suppose.
So you already know that God loves a good story. Why would he write one for himself with a bad ending?

Ephesians 1:7-10
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.
 
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Lazarus Short

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That's not what the scripture teaches.

Jesus said, If you believe not that am He, you shall die in your sins.

What does it mean to die in your sins? What are the legal consequences of sin in Gods law.

A fair question. Here is my answer:

The legal consequences of sin: death...but just death. God told Adam and Eve they would die if they ate of the wrong tree, and so they did. Later, God told other people (I remember Abimelech in that regard) they were as good as dead for having sinned. In no case that I know of did God warn them of anything else...like Hell. Now why would a loving, honest and holy God hold back that information...if Hell existed? Be aware that Hell is never mentioned as part of the Creation, and let that sink in. It is also never mentioned as a punishment in the Law that God gave to Moses, so let that sink in too.

So all through the OT, death reigns. Lots of people die. Is there a solution? As Abner asked, "Shall the sword devour for ever?" I noted that every instance of "Hell" in the OT is better rendered as "Sheol," and half the time is translated honestly as "the grave" or "the pit." But I digress...it's not easy to pass up a chance to get a dig in at Hell.

Then Jesus the Christ arrives. John the Baptist calls Him the Lamb that takes away the sin of the world. Did he lie? Remember that he was full of the Spirit. Now consider:

Jesus either took away the sin or the world...or He didn't. Faith demands that He did.

Jesus, as part of the Godhead, was witness and participant to what Job was told: "Is anything too difficult for Me?" It's God, so the answer must be "NO."

Therefore I must conclude that taking away the sin of the world is not too difficult for Jesus.

Problem: When Jesus was alive, when He died to make the taking away possible, and down to the present day, sin is still in existence. So...for Jesus to NOT FAIL, He must finish the work of taking away...after the resurrection.

He tried to tell us. He gave us the parable of the lost sheep. He fed multitudes on two occasions, and told His disciples to gather up the crumbs, which amounted to more than He started with. He even asked His Father to forgive those who were killing Him. Do I need to say more?

If anyone remains in their sins, Jesus has failed.

If anyone, then remains dead, Jesus has failed.

If anyone goes to Hell (if Hell exists), Jesus has failed.

If anyone is forever excluded from the Kingdom, Jesus has failed.

But no! Nothing is too difficult for Jesus, and being the Savior of the World, the One Who takes away the sin of the world, and the One who is both willing and able, then:

everyone's sin will be dealt with and forgiven - but it won't be pleasant for the wicked

no one will remain dead and/or in Hell

no one will be forever excluded from the Kingdom.
 
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Charlie24

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I wouldn't say "the opposite". More like with a happy ending.

You've read the bible, or a good deal of it, I suppose.
So you already know that God loves a good story. Why would he write one for himself with a bad ending?

Ephesians 1:7-10
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.
God didn't write a bad ending for Himself. He wrote the ending man prepared for himself.
 
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Saint Steven

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Then Jesus the Christ arrives. John the Baptist calls Him the Lamb that takes away the sin of the world. Did he lie? Remember that he was full of the Spirit. Now consider:

Jesus either took away the sin or the world...or He didn't. Faith demands that He did.
Wow. That is a dynamite insight. Thanks.
 
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