Good intentions will not change the outcome of the ungodly.
With none of what you say being found written in scripture, I would say that you have been led astray.
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He surely did, and they are grave warnings. But he is not therefore saying that God will destroy body and soul in hell. I'd suggest that's a big leap.
Certainly, it's not going to be pleasant for these pharisee types to have their pride and arrogant sense of superiority shattered. That's the humiliation which is experienced as 'fire'. I think we've all had those experiences to some extent, being brought down a notch, humbled and knocked off our pedestals as it were.
That's the process that person who's lived a life of stubborn self-righteousness and hypocrisy will have to go through, in order to be reconciled to God, to the truth. That's what the lake of fire is all about, the sinner being delivered from the false notions he clings to stubbornly.
Only when those bad habits and false ways are overcome can the carcass of the old man be left aside in everlasting contempt, and the new humble and grateful man come forth.
Well yes they converted and became saved but did not lose their salvation/eternal life after they became saved which was my point.How so? Historically many Jews converted. And the Roman at the foot of the cross was converted. Ultimately, we're bound for Revelation 15:4, the new song of Moses ad the Lamb:
"Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy; For ALL THE NATIONS WILL COME AND WORSHIP BEFORE YOU, FOR YOUR RIGHTEOUS ACTS HAVE BEEN REVEALED."
Now, this is THE revelation of Revelation. That God's judgments save, and consummate the great covenant promises of the OT (esp. to Abraham and Cyrus), and the mission of Jesus to save the world from its condemnation by the wages of sin.
How is it consistent with these great Biblical pillars of love faith and hope that the many end up doomed to eternal torment?
Good intentions will not change the outcome of the ungodly.
With none of what you say being found written in scripture, I would say that you have been led astray.
Well yes they converted and became saved but did not lose their salvation/eternal life after they became saved which was my point.
Do you agree ?
Here, this list might help.I've heard of it but we're not reading the same one!
Every knee... every tongue... in heaven, on earth, and under the earth (in the realm of the dead)No where in scripture do we have a hint that hell releases its condemned.
Are you claiming that God predestined the majority to eternal conscious torment with no hope of escape? And that is the perfect justice of God? What's wrong with this picture?Jesus is salvation, just as you said. He is the same Jesus who said, You hypocrites and snakes, how shall you enter the Kingdom of God.
He also said, Narrow is the way to life and few there be that find it.
The usual argumentative UR nonsense. IIRC Lazarus was a follower of Jesus when he died. Lazarus was not a dead sinner saved in the grave. Where does this say or imply that all of lost mankind in the grave/hell will be saved? It doesn't. And of course there will be a resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous. You should read about it Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 20:11-15And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. (Jn 11:43)
Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached. (Lk 7:22)
Like shooting fish in barrel with your objections der Alter.
Jesus delights in raising the dead. It's in the mission statement. And those with new life in Christ are filled with gratitude and awe. Now is that not a recipe for repentance?
Next?
More ridiculous UR nonsense. You would be well served to try to learn something about Greek grammar. Greek is an inflected language the correct meaning of a word is determined by tense, voice, mood, gender and number. That a Greek word is in the indicative, the subjunctive, the optative, or the imperative "moods" has absolutely nothing to do with the emotional mood of the speaker or writer.So God is moody and arbitrary now? Not in the Bible I'm reading.
The truth is everyone ever born deserves an eternity without God in hell- the lake of fire along with the devil and his angels.Are you claiming that God predestined the majority to eternal conscious torment with no hope of escape? And that is the perfect justice of God? What's wrong with this picture?
If God is "rich in mercy and grace" (and I believe he is) he would not predestine the vast majority of those created in his image to spend eternity in torment with no hope of escape. That sounds more like POOR in mercy and grace.But God rich in mercy and grace has chosen some to be with Him for all eternity.
And you are strictly looking at this from your human perspective.If God is "rich in mercy and grace" (and I believe he is) he would not predestine the vast majority of those created in his image to spend eternity in torment with no hope of escape. That sounds more like POOR in mercy and grace.
No one deserves the hell described by Damnationists. No one. Those raised in the church seem completely callous to the reality of what they describe as hell. Which amounts to a scare tactic to gain converts to control.
On the contrary.And you are strictly looking at this from your human perspective.
Nowhere does God promise to save every person who has ever lived in fact declares that most are under His Judgment. In your view Gods judgments are temporal and not permanent when in fact the same promises of eternal life that is forever also included His judgment and wrath that are everlasting, never ending such as the eternal fire that is never quenched, where the worm never dies, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth etc..................On the contrary.
You have correctly identified that God is "rich in mercy and grace", however you then violate your own confession with a belief in hell. These two are not compatible either biblically, or rationally.
Saint Steven said: ↑
If God is "rich in mercy and grace" (and I believe he is) he would not predestine the vast majority of those created in his image to spend eternity in torment with no hope of escape. That sounds more like POOR in mercy and grace.
No one deserves the hell described by Damnationists. No one. Those raised in the church seem completely callous to the reality of what they describe as hell. Which amounts to a scare tactic to gain converts to control.
There is some controversy about the translation of some words from the original in reference to...Nowhere does God promise to save every person who has ever lived in fact declares that most are under His Judgment. In your view Gods judgments are temporal and not permanent when in fact the same promises of eternal life that is forever also included His judgment and wrath that are everlasting, never ending such as the eternal fire that is never quenched, where the worm never dies, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth etc..................
You are making Gods word and promises not true by denying all the scriptures which describe eternal torment for the wicked. God has no obligation to save those who hate Him and love their sin.
hope this helps !!!
hope this helps !!!
Why not?God has no obligation to save those who hate Him and love their sin.
God NEVER requires unbelievers to love their enemies just believers.Why not?
Does he not require that we love our enemies? But you claim that he will incinerate his enemies? And what of those countless billions that have never so much as heard the name of Jesus? Consigned to eternal torment with no hope of escape?
That concept of God is too small.Saint Steven said:Why not? Does he not require that we love our enemies? But you claim that he will incinerate his enemies? And what of those countless billions that have never so much as heard the name of Jesus? Consigned to eternal torment with no hope of escape?
That has nothing to do with what I wrote. Of course I was referring to us loving our enemies. Now with that clarification, please reply to the post. Thanks.God NEVER requires unbelievers to love their enemies just believers.
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