The A & P

[Shrewd Manager]

Everyone in hell and going to be in hell sent themselves there, God didn't do it!!!

They refused His Grace, everyone of them.

Hi Charlie permit me to return serve with a forehand into center court. These ppl (the unsaved) are put on the tennis court wearing blindfolds and their shoelaces tied together. They can't be expected to see the ball, let alone play a game. It takes Jesus to remove the blindfold and untie their knots so they can start to play ball.

The veil needs to be lifted, the dead need to be raised, the sight needs to be restored... and umpire the ball was clearly OUT!

That's why the Book's called Revelation, not God's Bbq-Grill apalooza.

 

[Charlie24]

Hi Charlie permit me to return serve with a forehand into center court. These ppl (the unsaved) are put on the tennis court wearing blindfolds and their shoelaces tied together. They can't be expected to see the ball, let alone play a game. It takes Jesus to remove the blindfold and untie their knots so they can start to play ball.

The veil needs to be lifted, the dead need to be raised, the sight needs to be restored... and umpire the ball was clearly OUT!

That's why the Book's called Revelation, not God's Bbq-Grill apalooza.

Hello SM, the UR has a serious misunderstanding of how God works. I believe it comes from a willful negligence of scripture to ones own agenda, not God's.

Our Lord gives us light and then more light to His word if we choose to walk in it. God has placed His Word above His name (Psalms 138:2) and that is all we need to know from God. If we walk in that light He will give us more. It is through His Word that God speaks and works through us.

The light the UR has been given didn't come from God's Word, it came from another source. Nothing the UR claims can be proven from scripture and that is a big no-no for any born again christian.

God's Word is the bottom line, the UR is taking the light of God's Word and turning it into a lie. It comes from not walking in the light, but walking in ones own light.

 

[Saint Steven]

Everyone in hell and going to be in hell sent themselves there, God didn't do it!!!

They refused His Grace, everyone of them.

Those are the standard claims of Evangelicalism. There is no basis for them.
1) No one wants to go to hell.
2) Not everyone has had the opportunity to choose (or reject) Jesus Christ.
Countless billions in fact. And Evangelicalism consigns them to eternal conscious torment.

 

[Saint Steven]

There are untold millions, past, present, and future who simply will not do so. As the scripture says, "they will not see the Kingdom of God."

Can you qualify this claim?

 

[Charlie24]

Those are the standard claims of Evangelicalism. There is no basis for them.
1) No one wants to go to hell.
2) Not everyone has had the opportunity to choose (or reject) Jesus Christ.
Countless billions in fact. And Evangelicalism consigns them to eternal conscious torment.

That's what burns me up about the UR, they will take no time at all to study the scripture to learn the nature of God, who He is, WHY He does things in a certain manner.

The only way to do this is to think spiritually when reading and studying His Word. Everything you need to know about God is found there.

But the UR folks refuse to do this, if it's not what they think it should be, then God is wrong. We damnationists, as you call us, are nothing more than accomplices to murder with God.

There's a common term found in scripture that describes perfectly the folks who will not allow God to be God, they are constantly in rebellion against God. They know better than God what should be done.

 

[Saint Steven]

That's what burns me up about the UR, they will take no time at all to study the scripture to learn the nature of God, who He is, WHY He does things in a certain manner.

The only way to do this is to think spiritually when reading and studying His Word. Everything you need to know about God is found there.

But the UR folks refuse to do this, if it's not what they think it should be, then God is wrong. We damnationists, as you call us, are nothing more than accomplices to murder with God.

There's a common term found in scripture that describes perfectly the folks who will not allow God to be God, they are constantly in rebellion against God. They know better than God what should be done.

Is this the gospel?
Receive the free gift of eternal life in Christ Jesus. If you don't, God will incinerate you.

 

[Charlie24]

Is this the gospel?
Receive the free gift of eternal life in Christ Jesus. If you don't, God will incinerate you.

This post is a prime example of what I have been explaining.

 

[Saint Steven]

This post is a prime example of what I have been explaining.

Did Jesus die to save you from God? That's ridiculous.
You have failed to address the key issues here. Preferring to uphold the status quo. Which claims exactly what I am saying about it.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Is this the gospel?
Receive the free gift of eternal life in Christ Jesus. If you don't, God will incinerate you.

 

[Saint Steven]

The only way to do this is to think spiritually when reading and studying His Word. Everything you need to know about God is found there.

What is your spiritual thinking on this one?

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Those are the standard claims of Evangelicalism. There is no basis for them.
1) No one wants to go to hell.
2) Not everyone has had the opportunity to choose (or reject) Jesus Christ.
Countless billions in fact. And Evangelicalism consigns them to eternal conscious torment.

Where does the bible say no one wants to go to hell ?

Where does the bible say everyone gets an opportunity to choose Jesus ?

I'm sure you have been told or taught that but where is that in the bible ?

 

[Der Alte]

Where does the bible say no one wants to go to hell ?
Where does the bible say everyone gets an opportunity to choose Jesus ?
I'm sure you have been told or taught that but where is that in the bible ?

The Universal Reconciliationists [UR] believe that everyone will be saved the righteous and unrepentant unrighteous even after death. Although the unrighteous may or may not be punished in the lake of fire for some indeterminate period somehow, inexplicably they will be transformed into faithful believers.
What about children, infants, the mentally handicapped etc. and people who have never heard the gospel?

Psalms 19:1-4
1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
Romans 1:18-24
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Romans 4:15
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Romans 5:13
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Romans 2:14-15
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )
​

 

[Saint Steven]

Where does the bible say no one wants to go to hell ?

Where does the bible say everyone gets an opportunity to choose Jesus ?

I'm sure you have been told or taught that but where is that in the bible ?

I am not claiming that everyone gets a chance to choose Jesus. That is a claim of Damnationism.

Common sense says no one wants to go to hell. If you aren't sure, see how long you can hold your hand against a red hot stove. Any reason that you wouldn't want to do that?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I am not claiming that everyone gets a chance to choose Jesus. That is a claim of Damnationism.

Common sense say no one wants to go to hell. If you aren't sure, see how long you can hold your hand against a red hot stove. Any reason that you wouldn't want to do that?

common sense is not the bible but the facts are scripture declared man loves their sin and hates God. So why would those who hate God want to be with Him in the afterlife. They get what they deserve everlasting life apart from God in the lake of fire.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Saint Steven]

They get what they deserve everlasting life apart from God in the lake of fire.

In that case, what do you deserve?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

In that case, what do you deserve?

hell but God saved me.

 

[Saint Steven]

hell but God saved me.

Why you and not everyone else?
Is Jesus an eternal failure? What was he sent to do?

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Why you and not everyone else?
Is Jesus an eternal failure? What was he sent to do?

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

Salvation is of the LORD period.

 

[Saint Steven]

Salvation is of the LORD period.

I haven't said otherwise.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

 

[Saint Steven]

common sense is not the bible but the facts are scripture declared man loves their sin and hates God. So why would those who hate God want to be with Him in the afterlife. They get what they deserve everlasting life apart from God in the lake of fire.

hope this helps !!!

How long did you hold your hand against that red hot stove? (claiming people want to go to hell)

 

[Der Alte]

***

Why you and not everyone else?
Is Jesus an eternal failure? What was he sent to do?
1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

UR-ites like to quote selective proof texts out-of-context trying to show that God will save all mankind righteous and unrighteous alike even after death
Yes, "the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world," but there is a condition

1 John 4:13-16
13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.​

One of the conditions is "we dwell in him, and he in us" vs. 13 The converses of that is "If we do NOT dwell in Him He does NOT dwell in us."
The next condition is "Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God" The converse is "Whosoever shall NOT confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God does NOT dwell in him, and he does NOT dwell in God"
Is there a verse anywhere which states that the unrighteous have an opportunity after death to repent?

John 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Isaiah 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Psalms 88:10-11
10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
JPS Proverbs 24:20
(20) For there will be no future to the evil man, the lamp of the wicked shall be put out.
Ephesians 2:12
(12) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
1 Thessalonians 4:13
(13) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
Psalms 115:17
17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Ecclesiastes 9:10
10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.​