The 7th trumpet signals more than a woe event

[Timtofly]

Why limit yourself? We have the whole bible. God has to have sheep and goats. You would rob him of both.

Do you deny that in the 40 years in the wilderness, Moses, Joshua, and Caleb were the only ones left who actually lived in Egypt? For 40 years, God killed every single one who stood at the base of Mount Sinai who worshipped a golden calf, and who refused to fight for ownership of Canaan. God only used some children born in the wilderness and millions of grandchildren. God did that in 40 years. The Millennium is 1000 years. Some may be cursed and die after they reach 100 years of age. But it will be repopulated by multiplication. Millions will keep having offspring for hundreds of years. Every 20 years a new generation will keep doing the same. At least 49 generations. The last generation will not be old enough. That includes sometimes twins, triplets, etc. That is not imagination. That is just seeing the realization of the last 300 years in a sin infested world. Removing sin, will not decrease a population. It will allow natural population growth without any worries of an over populated world.

 

[Messenger 3k]

Do you deny that in the 40 years in the wilderness, Moses, Joshua, and Caleb were the only ones left who actually lived in Egypt?

I don't understand this.

 

[iamlamad]

I presented Scripture. I am not sure why you think I have stepped out of bounds.

The earth is repopulated by those resurrected on the Monday, the day after Revelation 14, or the battle of Armageddon. It is in clear text in Revelation 20. If you change the chronology of Revelation, I will not trust anything you attempt to say. Monday comes after Sunday. That will not change in the next 5+ years, will it? Do you deny that at the first advent, Jesus entered Jerusalem on a Sunday and appeared to Mary on the following Sunday? That is the same template for the Second Coming week, Sunday to Sunday. It is the template of God’s current created reality. Two Lord's Days, with 6 days in between for Adam's descendants.

Many people here present scripture, but often it is scripture out of context or just scripture that does not fit the discussion - as was your scripture. I said nothing about "out of bounds." I just presented what the REAL third "woe" is.
I am going to do a test, and search Revelation for "Monday" and the other days of the week. Stand by. Well, I searched for every day of the week in the KJV and found nothing, not in the whole bible. Perhaps then you could explain to all of us where you came up with these days of the week.

That is the same template for the Second Coming week, Sunday to Sunday. Who said? Can you find scripture for that?

Anyway, you have side stepped. We were talking about the 3rd woe. You said it was something in chapter 14. I showed you it was when Satan was cast down, John wrote WOE!

It is the template of God’s current created reality. Two Lord's Days, with 6 days in between for Adam's descendants. Find scripture for this, and I will agree. Otherwise, it is just more imagination.

It seems you post a lot of "stuff" that is not scriptural. Where do you come up with it? Are you following someone else, or is this YOUR imagination?

 

[iamlamad]

Do you deny that in the 40 years in the wilderness, Moses, Joshua, and Caleb were the only ones left who actually lived in Egypt? For 40 years, God killed every single one who stood at the base of Mount Sinai who worshipped a golden calf, and who refused to fight for ownership of Canaan. God only used some children born in the wilderness and millions of grandchildren. God did that in 40 years. The Millennium is 1000 years. Some may be cursed and die after they reach 100 years of age. But it will be repopulated by multiplication. Millions will keep having offspring for hundreds of years. Every 20 years a new generation will keep doing the same. At least 49 generations. The last generation will not be old enough. That includes sometimes twins, triplets, etc. That is not imagination. That is just seeing the realization of the last 300 years in a sin infested world. Removing sin, will not decrease a population. It will allow natural population growth without any worries of an over populated world.

Do you deny that in the 40 years in the wilderness, Moses, Joshua, and Caleb were the only ones left who actually lived in Egypt? I would agree that they were the only adults who lived in Egypt. You forgot the children. What is your point here?

You are the one that wrote, " All living humanity will be dead at the end of the 7th Trumpet." If this is truth, then you will rob God of any next generation.

 

[Rachel20]

I see the 7th of each set of sevens as containers - the 7th seal containing the 7 trumpets, the 7th trumpet containing the 7 bowls. Thus at the 7th trumpet, the voices in heaven can say "the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord" even though the nations aren't gathered and defeated until the 7th bowl.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7------------------------->
-------------1 2 3 4 5 6 7------------>
--------------------------1 2 3 4 5 6 7​

7th Seal:
And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. Revelation 8:1-2

7th Trumpet:
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 11:15

And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened: And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles. And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever. Revelation 15:5-7

7th Bowl:
And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. Revelation 16:12-20

 

[iamlamad]

I see the 7th of each set of sevens as containers - the 7th seal containing the 7 trumpets, the 7th trumpet containing the 7 bowls. Thus at the 7th trumpet, the voices in heaven can say "the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord" even though the nations aren't gathered and defeated until the 7th bowl.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7------------------------->
-------------1 2 3 4 5 6 7------------>
--------------------------1 2 3 4 5 6 7​

7th Seal:
And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. Revelation 8:1-2

7th Trumpet:
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 11:15

And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened: And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles. And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever. Revelation 15:5-7

7th Bowl:
And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. Revelation 16:12-20

Many people see it that way, but I do not. It is very difficult for a literal wax seal sealing a book to "contain" anything. I suspect, as each seal is opened, that there is something that was or will be read. Once the 7th seal is opened then the BOOK gets opened and the first thing read inside the book will be something like: 7 angels are to be given 7 trumpets.

In the same way, how can SOUND contain anything but sound? There is much TIME between the 7th trumpet and the first vial. God will wait to pour out the vials, for He will use them to shorten the days of GT. There may be two years between - or even more.

In other words, what we read in chapter 8 it what is written INSIDE the book. Of course this makes such states as "the 7th trumpet sounds at the 6th seal" as both impossible and silly. Anyway, you certainly have the right idea, they are very linear. No trumpet can sound with any seal, and no trumpet can sound with any vial. The seals come first, as sealing a book; then the book gets opened to reveal what comes next. I suspect the entire 70th week is written inside the book.

 

[Timtofly]

Many people here present scripture, but often it is scripture out of context or just scripture that does not fit the discussion - as was your scripture. I said nothing about "out of bounds." I just presented what the REAL third "woe" is.
I am going to do a test, and search Revelation for "Monday" and the other days of the week. Stand by. Well, I searched for every day of the week in the KJV and found nothing, not in the whole bible. Perhaps then you could explain to all of us where you came up with these days of the week.

That is the same template for the Second Coming week, Sunday to Sunday. Who said? Can you find scripture for that?

Anyway, you have side stepped. We were talking about the 3rd woe. You said it was something in chapter 14. I showed you it was when Satan was cast down, John wrote WOE!

It is the template of God’s current created reality. Two Lord's Days, with 6 days in between for Adam's descendants. Find scripture for this, and I will agree. Otherwise, it is just more imagination.

It seems you post a lot of "stuff" that is not scriptural. Where do you come up with it? Are you following someone else, or is this YOUR imagination?

So you accept God is just going to pick a random day of the week? That's fine. I posted the Scriptures. If you just look for words in the Bible, does that rule out any ideas?

 

[Douggg]

1 2 3 4 5 6 7------------------------->
-------------1 2 3 4 5 6 7------------>
--------------------------1 2 3 4 5 6 7​

Hi Rachel20,

What about this line of thinking...

1 2 3 4 5 6 (seals)------------>7 (seal)----1 2 3 4 5 6 (trumpets) ------> 7 (trumpet)... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 (vials).


1 2 3 4 5 6 (seals) chapter 6
7 (seal) chapter 8
1 2 3 4 5 6 (trumpets) chapter 8, 9
7 (trumpet) chapter 11
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 (vials) chapter 16

 

[iamlamad]

So you accept God is just going to pick a random day of the week? That's fine. I posted the Scriptures. If you just look for words in the Bible, does that rule out any ideas?

Time, there is no scripture what includes Monday or any other day of the week.
What do you mean, for Jesus' coming to the rapture? I find no scripture that tells us the day of the week.

 

[iamlamad]

Hi Rachel20,

What about this line of thinking...

1 2 3 4 5 6 (seals)------------>7 (seal)----1 2 3 4 5 6 (trumpets) ------> 7 (trumpet)... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 (vials).


1 2 3 4 5 6 (seals) chapter 6
7 (seal) chapter 8
1 2 3 4 5 6 (trumpets) chapter 8, 9
7 (trumpet) chapter 11
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 (vials) chapter 16

I think you are very close: but let me change it slightly:

1 2 3 4 5 6 (seals)------------>7 (seal)----1 2 3 4 5 6 (trumpets) ------> 7 (trumpet)... 1 2 3 4 5 6 (vials)--------->7th (vial).

Why? Because God has used the 7's for markers.

 

[Rachel20]

What about this line of thinking...

1 2 3 4 5 6 (seals)------------>7 (seal)----1 2 3 4 5 6 (trumpets) ------> 7 (trumpet)... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 (vials).

Very similar in that we both see them chronologically. But your diagram suggests the 7th seal is complete when the 1st trumpet begins, and the 7th trumpet is complete when the 1st bowl begins? This may be where we differ (or am I wrong?). I see the 7th seal as being the 7 trumpets, and the 7th trumpet as being the 7 vials.

 

[Douggg]

I think you are very close: but let me change it slightly:

1 2 3 4 5 6 (seals)------------>7 (seal)----1 2 3 4 5 6 (trumpets) ------> 7 (trumpet)... 1 2 3 4 5 6 (vials)--------->7th (vial).

Why? Because God has used the 7's for markers.

I don't see the 7th vial that far detached sequentially from the other 6 vials. The 6th vial, the kings of the east march, which would be right at the end of the seven years, God drawing all nations into the region in Zechariah 14, to shortly go up to Jerusalem.

Once the kings of the earth unite and assemble their armies at Armageddon to make war on Jesus. With 7th vial being right before Jesus descends to earth.

 

[Douggg]

Very similar in that we both see them chronologically. But your diagram suggests the 7th seal is complete when the 1st trumpet begins, and the 7th trumpet is complete when the 1st bowl begins? This may be where we differ (or am I wrong?). I see the 7th seal as being the 7 trumpets, and the 7th trumpet as being the 7 vials.

I did not intend to give that impression. What I was trying to highlight is that 7th seal has special implication, and is why it is detached from the other 6 seals.

The same reason the 7th trumpet is not grouped with the other 6 trumpets.

On the other issue, I think there is overlapping on the timeline of some of the trumpets and some of the vials.

______________________________________________

The 7th trumpet is more than the 7 vials. It is whole of the second half of the 7 years.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

So we have to go back and figure out what the prophets said that would give us some clues.

From Daniel 2. (paraphrased) In the days of the (ten) kings - God will setup an everlasting kingdom here on earth.

From Ezekiel 28:16-19. The demise of Satan. Him cast down to earth (Revelation 12:7-9). To be exposed to kings of the earth. A fire coming up in his midst. Turned to ashes.

_________________________________________
my comments are for the sake of refinement, and not for the sake of disagreeing.

 

[Timtofly]

Do you all purposely leave out the Thunders?

 

[Rachel20]

I did not intend to give that impression.

Thanks for clarifying. I wasn't sure I was understanding your point correctly.

 

[Rachel20]

Do you all purposely leave out the Thunders?

I have a lazy brain today, maybe you can explain your point so I won't have to read all the comments for clues

 

[DavidPT]

______________________________________________

The 7th trumpet is more than the 7 vials. It is whole of the second half of the 7 years.

Isaiah 2:10 Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty.
11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Clearly, regardless some might disagree, 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is meaning the 2nd half of the 70th week.

And if Isaiah 2:10-11 is also meaning the 2nd half of the 70th week, the following is what we end up with.

and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day(Isaiah 2:11)----Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God(2 Thessalonians 2:4).

If that not a contradiction, what is it then?

Let's try something different this time. Instead of these events running in parallel, one set of events is fulfilled, followed by another set of events.

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God(2 Thessalonians 2:4)(the second half of the 7 years.)----and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day(the 6th seal events after the 42 month reign has been fulfilled, also consult Matthew 24:29-31).

I see no contradiction now. Not to mention, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day(Isaiah 2:11), this seems like a perfect match with that of---The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever(Revelation 11:15).

Per the last half of the 70th week it is the beast that is reigning, not Christ as well. We encounter one contradiction after another when we attempt to fit the events of the 7th trumpet with that of events it can't possibly fit. Once the 7th trumpet sounds, the 42 month reign of the beast, meaning the trib of those days(where Matthew 24:29 indicates are in the past at this point, meaning when it's time for the 6th seal events), this alone proves that the 7th trumpet can't include the 2nd half of the 70th week events. IOW, the 2nd half of the 70th week is fulfilled during the 2nd woe, not the 3rd woe.

 

[Timtofly]

I have a lazy brain today, maybe you can explain your point so I won't have to read all the comments for clues

Revelation 10:3-4
3 and shouted in a voice as loud as the roar of a lion; and when he shouted, seven thunderclaps sounded with voices that spoke.
4 When the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven say,

“Seal up the things the seven thunders said,
do not write them down!”

These 7 judgments happen between the 6th and 7th Trumpet.

 

[Rachel20]

These 7 judgments happen between the 6th and 7th Trumpet.

I've never included the 7 thunders with the other sets of sevens. Interesting to consider them this way, as there were also 4 sets of seven judgments in Leviticus 26 (Leviticus 26:16-17, Leviticus 26:21, Leviticus 26:24, Leviticus 26:28)

 

[Douggg]

IOW, the 2nd half of the 70th week is fulfilled during the 2nd woe, not the 3rd woe.

The third woe lasts a time, times, half time. The second half of the 70th week.

What is in between the lines in Revelation 12, is the sounding of the 7th angel.


6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

----------------the 7th angel sounds--------

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.