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The 7th day Sabbath Rest

Travis93

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Again, you are joking, right? Some kind of sarcasm?
It's hard to tell because in other threads I thought you had some good and right posts...
this one seems so bizarre....
Yes, it's sarcasm. I see people saying "If it isn't repeated in the New Testament it isn't binding on us", and some even go as far as saying everything Jesus taught was just part of the old law and we are only to follow Acts-Revelation. So my point is, the same God who declared the Sabbath holy also declared bestiality to be confusion. If the Sabbath was abolished just from not being restated then so do bestiality laws. James 2:11 says the same one who declared adultery wrong also declared murder wrong, so I'm just taking that principle to it's conclusion, anything against the law of Moses is sin.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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You are joking, right ? Like sarcasm? (it's hard to tell)
Yes, I was being facetious as some people like to buffet style their reference to God's requirement and expectation of us in the OT.
 
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Bob S

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Why is it still a sin? Jesus never repeated this command to the gentiles, why would it still be binding? Chapter and verse please...
All immorality is sin. Besides you are the one that has tells us that the book of the law has been fulfilled and if I am not mistaken the command about sexual relations with animals is part of the book of the law. Think my friend.
 
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Bob S

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Yes, it's sarcasm. I see people saying "If it isn't repeated in the New Testament it isn't binding on us", and some even go as far as saying everything Jesus taught was just part of the old law and we are only to follow Acts-Revelation. So my point is, the same God who declared the Sabbath holy also declared bestiality to be confusion. If the Sabbath was abolished just from not being restated then so do bestiality laws. James 2:11 says the same one who declared adultery wrong also declared murder wrong, so I'm just taking that principle to it's conclusion, anything against the law of Moses is sin.
To whom did God declare the Sabbath holy?
Deuteronomy 5New International Version (NIV)
The Ten Commandments
5 Moses summoned all Israel and said:

Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.
 
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Soyeong

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Jesus put us under a new law that is greater, and the new law includes not sleeping with animals.

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. - John 13:34

Jesus lived in perfect obedience to the law, and he practiced what he preached and preached what he practiced, so everything he taught was in accordance with the law. In John 6:38, Jesus said he came only to do the Father's will, and in John 7:16, he said that his teachings were not his own, but that of the Father who sent him, so Jesus did not go off on his own and teach something other than what the Father had commanded. God's law is perfect and eternal (Psalms 19:7, Psalms 119:160), so there is no better law, and Jesus did not give a brand new one.

The command to love one another is found in Leviticus 19:18, so there is nothing brand new about that command. Jesus loved us through his obedience to the law, so if we love one another as he loved us, then we will also live in obedience to it. There are two Greek words that are often translated as "new", with "neon" meaning "brand new with respect to time" and kainous meaning "refreshed or restored with respect to quality", and the word used in John 13:34 means new with respect to quality. In other words, there was nothing brand new about the command to love one another, but what was new was the quality of the example with which we are to obey the command. Another place where we can see this distinction is in Matthew 9:17, where two different words are often translated as "new", but it means brand new wine being poured into restored wineskins.

http://biblehub.com/text/john/13-34.htm

A person who loves others as Christ loved them will not sleep with animals because they have esteem and value in who they are in Jesus Christ. This no-confidence we place in the flesh, plus confidence placed in Christ where his love shines through us transforms our life.

Jesus summarized the law as being about how to love God and how to love our neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40), so a person who loves God and our neighbor will not disobey any of the commands in the law.

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
- James 2:10

The context shows that James was encouraging them to be more consistent in their observance of the law, not saying that they shouldn't bother trying to keep it. The consequence of breaking any part of the law is not that we won't be justified because we aren't to keep the law in order to become justified in the first place, but rather the consequence is sin, which means that we need to repent and turn back to obedience to the law. James was not saying that breaking the law causes us to be guilty of breaking other laws that we did not break, but that breaking any of the laws has the same consequence of sin. There is indeed no condemnation for those who are in Messiah (Romans 8:1), but those who are in Messiah are those who ought to follow his commands and walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:3-6), which is in obedience to the law.
 
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Travis93

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Isaiah 56:1-7 speaks of strangers joining themselves to the covenant and keeping the sabbath, and when Jesus comes back the whole world will observe the feast of tabernacles (Zechariah 14:16) which runs contrary to the idea that God never wants anyone else observing it. When Jesus creates Ezekiel's temple all people will come to worship on sabbaths and new moons (Ezekiel 46:3).
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Isaiah 56:1-7 speaks of strangers joining themselves to the covenant and keeping the sabbath, and when Jesus comes back the whole world will observe the feast of tabernacles (Zechariah 14:16) which runs contrary to the idea that God never wants anyone else observing it. When Jesus creates Ezekiel's temple all people will come to worship on sabbaths and new moons (Ezekiel 46:3).
For some reason Travis, those opposed to honouring the Sabbath do not believe they are part of spiritual Israel and heirs to the promise.
 
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bugkiller

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Yes, it's sarcasm. I see people saying "If it isn't repeated in the New Testament it isn't binding on us", and some even go as far as saying everything Jesus taught was just part of the old law and we are only to follow Acts-Revelation. So my point is, the same God who declared the Sabbath holy also declared bestiality to be confusion. If the Sabbath was abolished just from not being restated then so do bestiality laws. James 2:11 says the same one who declared adultery wrong also declared murder wrong, so I'm just taking that principle to it's conclusion, anything against the law of Moses is sin.
You still reject JER 31:31-33. Why?

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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Jesus lived in perfect obedience to the law, and he practiced what he preached and preached what he practiced, so everything he taught was in accordance with the law. In John 6:38, Jesus said he came only to do the Father's will, and in John 7:16, he said that his teachings were not his own, but that of the Father who sent him, so Jesus did not go off on his own and teach something other than what the Father had commanded. God's law is perfect and eternal (Psalms 19:7, Psalms 119:160), so there is no better law, and Jesus did not give a brand new one.

The command to love one another is found in Leviticus 19:18, so there is nothing brand new about that command. Jesus loved us through his obedience to the law, so if we love one another as he loved us, then we will also live in obedience to it. There are two Greek words that are often translated as "new", with "neon" meaning "brand new with respect to time" and kainous meaning "refreshed or restored with respect to quality", and the word used in John 13:34 means new with respect to quality. In other words, there was nothing brand new about the command to love one another, but what was new was the quality of the example with which we are to obey the command. Another place where we can see this distinction is in Matthew 9:17, where two different words are often translated as "new", but it means brand new wine being poured into restored wineskins.

http://biblehub.com/text/john/13-34.htm



Jesus summarized the law as being about how to love God and how to love our neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40), so a person who loves God and our neighbor will not disobey any of the commands in the law.



The context shows that James was encouraging them to be more consistent in their observance of the law, not saying that they shouldn't bother trying to keep it. The consequence of breaking any part of the law is not that we won't be justified because we aren't to keep the law in order to become justified in the first place, but rather the consequence is sin, which means that we need to repent and turn back to obedience to the law. James was not saying that breaking the law causes us to be guilty of breaking other laws that we did not break, but that breaking any of the laws has the same consequence of sin. There is indeed no condemnation for those who are in Messiah (Romans 8:1), but those who are in Messiah are those who ought to follow his commands and walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:3-6), which is in obedience to the law.
Then either John or Jesus is lying. Could please straighten thiso utf or us?

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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Isaiah 56:1-7 speaks of strangers joining themselves to the covenant and keeping the sabbath, and when Jesus comes back the whole world will observe the feast of tabernacles (Zechariah 14:16) which runs contrary to the idea that God never wants anyone else observing it. When Jesus creates Ezekiel's temple all people will come to worship on sabbaths and new moons (Ezekiel 46:3).
When a stranger joins themselves to the covenant (thus God) given to Israel they're no longer strangers according to Ex 12:48.

bugkiller
 
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Travis93

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You still reject JER 31:31-33. Why?

bugkiller
I reject your interpretation of it. It says the new covenant is with Israel and Judah only, I don't see unconverted gentiles anywhere in the passage. It says the law will be written on your heart, not that it will be abolished.
 
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Bob S

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For some reason Travis, those opposed to honouring the Sabbath do not believe they are part of spiritual Israel and heirs to the promise.
You are SDA, Travis and others are messianic yet you never try to debate anything they write. Is it because you have a bond with other Sabbath observers that supersedes their Torah observance which SDAs do not believe?
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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You are SDA, Travis and others are messianic yet you never try to debate anything they write. Is it because you have a bond with other Sabbath observers that supersedes their Torah observance which SDAs do not believe?
I have stated in numerous posts over the years that I don't believe the feast days to still be in force, that they were fulfilled in Christ. However, they are not a violation of God's Holy Moral Law, they do not desecrate the day that God Sanctified and made Holy.
 
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bbbbbbb

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I have stated in numerous posts over the years that I don't believe the feast days to still be in force, that they were fulfilled in Christ. However, they are not a violation of God's Holy Moral Law, they do not desecrate the day that God Sanctified and made Holy.

So, Christmas and Easter must fall into the same category as they also do not violate God's Holy Moral Law. BTW, please show me in scripture where God's Holy Moral Laws are listed for us.
 
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Travis93

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So, Christmas and Easter must fall into the same category as they also do not violate God's Holy Moral Law. BTW, please show me in scripture where God's Holy Moral Laws are listed for us.
Christmas and Easter are condemned, as the root of them lies in paganism.
Galatians 4:8-11 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Christmas is not found anywhere in the Bible, and the only person to celebrate Easter is the wicked king Herod (Acts 12:4). Interestingly, the practice of decking a tree with ornaments is called the vain custom of heathen in Jeremiah 10:1-4.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Christmas and Easter are condemned, as the root of them lies in paganism.
Galatians 4:8-11 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Christmas is not found anywhere in the Bible, and the only person to celebrate Easter is the wicked king Herod (Acts 12:4). Interestingly, the practice of decking a tree with ornaments is called the vain custom of heathen in Jeremiah 10:1-4.

So, anything related to the person and work of Jesus Christ is to be condemned because their roots lie in paganism. Interesting.
 
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Travis93

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So, anything related to the person and work of Jesus Christ is to be condemned because their roots lie in paganism. Interesting.
Why not celebrate the actual holy days Jesus and the apostles did instead of man made traditions?
 
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bbbbbbb

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Why not celebrate the actual holy days Jesus and the apostles did instead of man made traditions?

Oh, like Hanukkah which, by the by, is only mentioned briefly in the gospel of John. I guess we should stop having communion or baptizing folks because they are not mentioned in the OT.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Oh, like Hanukkah which, by the by, is only mentioned briefly in the gospel of John. I guess we should stop having communion or baptizing folks because they are not mentioned in the OT.
Now you're being obstinate... Travis never said OT only but not found in the Bible period.

How about a comment on the scripture Travis gave from Galatians 4...
"Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain."


As a Christian, does this encourage us or discourage us from our festivities and holidays?
 
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