The 70 weeks of Daniel are already fulfilled

[Douggg]

I am not a connoisseur of the Aramaic language. My translation of the Bible is translated without "he". I use the Synodal Russian translation, which is used by almost all Russian-speaking Christians.

הגביר
Google translation also does not find the word "he" there.

Hi ProtectionET, welcome to the forum. I use the kjv, which does have the "he" in that verse.

Sometimes I check with the Jews at their sites to see what their English translation of the Tanach (that's what they call their bible) says for certain verses.

For Daniel 9:27, they also have the "he" in the verse. Here is a link...
https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16492

Thanks for information about the popularity of the Synodal Russian translation. I personally have never heard of it. Here in the U.S., I think the King James Version is likely the most widely used.

I wish for all the Russian Christians the best.

 

[Biblewriter]

Ezekiel's temple was built LONG ago in the post-exilic return, with its foundation stone being laid by Zerubbabel, and his hands finishing it, as God predicted in Zechariah 4:9. Its high priesthood leadership was strictly limited to members with a continued, proven lineage of the Zadok family to serve in it (Ezekiel 44:10-15), which rules out any fulfillment of this Ezekiel temple today. No one today can prove an unbroken genealogical line back to Zadok, even if God had intended the tribes of Israel to continue after their AD 70 extinction, which He didn't desire.

Moreover, scripture records that this Ezekiel Temple WAS built. Ezra 6:14-15 says, "And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia. And this house was finished on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the king. Your 3-D model of a third temple is impressive graphics, but ultimately a waste of effort.

That Ezekiel Temple with its later renovations done by Herod was torn down to the last stone in AD 70, as Christ predicted. It had provided a type, leading to the real Spiritual Temple made without hands, which temple we are. God will not again revert to the old, cast-off types and shadows when the REAL fulfillment of that type has already come. That would mean Christ as the "chief cornerstone" foundation of the Spiritual Temple would have to be torn down, and that ain't happening.

I did watch your video, and there was quite a bit of confused interpretation with conflated texts in it, and with no emphasis on the exaltation of Jesus, which I found a bit strange.

The temple built in the days of Ezra did not even approximately resemble the one described in Ezekiel.

 

[Biblewriter]

Anyone who claims that any of the historical accounts in the Bible are "fiction," is an heretic who should not be listened to about anything.

 

[3 Resurrections]

The temple built in the days of Ezra did not even approximately resemble the one described in Ezekiel.

That is pure assumption, and does not agree with Ezra 6:14. It says that the elders of the Jews builded and prospered during Haggai and Zechariah's ministry, and that they finished the house of the Lord "according to the commandment of the God of Israel," (which Temple design God gave to Ezekiel) "and according to the commandment of Cyrus and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia." And it gives the actual date for that Temple's completion.

What you are probably thinking of is that scripture says the second Temple did not equal SOLOMON'S in splendor. It never says that the post-exilic return generation failed to execute Ezekiel's design given by commandment from God for its construction.

How can you possibly prove that the second Temple did not resemble the one described in Ezekiel, since the whole thing was torn down to the last stone in AD 70 anyway? We have to rely on Ezra's record of that second Temple's completion, and the prophet said it was finished according to God's commandment.

 

[Biblewriter]

That is pure assumption, and does not agree with Ezra 6:14. It says that the elders of the Jews builded and prospered during Haggai and Zechariah's ministry, and that they finished the house of the Lord "according to the commandment of the God of Israel," (which Temple design God gave to Ezekiel) "and according to the commandment of Cyrus and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia." And it gives the actual date for that Temple's completion.

What you are probably thinking of is that scripture says the second Temple did not equal SOLOMON'S in splendor. It never says that the post-exilic return generation failed to execute Ezekiel's design given by commandment from God for its construction.

How can you possibly prove that the second Temple did not resemble the one described in Ezekiel, since the whole thing was torn down to the last stone in AD 70 anyway? We have to rely on Ezra's record of that second Temple's completion, and the prophet said it was finished according to God's commandment.

As usual, you are falsely accusing me of doing exactly what you are doing. You are the one that is interpreting scripture, while I am pointing out what it actually says.

You are referring to Ezra 3:12. But THAT is not where we are given the dimensions of the temple built at that time. Those are given in Ezra 6:3 as sixty cubits high and sixty cubits wide.

But in Ezekiel 41:12, the dimensions of the temple itself were stated to be seventy cubits by ninety cubits. But the "cubit" beg used there was "a cubit and an hand breadth," (Ezekiel 40:5) or a "great cubit," (Ezekiel 41:8)

The ordinary cubit was 18." The "great cubit" was 22 inches. So the temple in Ezra was 60X18=1080 inches, or 90 feet wide. but the temple in Ezekiel was 70X22=1504 inches, or 128 feet, 4 inches wide. That is, it was 42.6% wider than the temple in Ezra, or almost half again as wide.

that one dimension, in and by itself, is enough to prove the point.

 

[3 Resurrections]

that one dimension, in and by itself, is enough to prove the point.

You must be able to reconcile Ezra's statement in Ezra 6:14 with your texts. The LXX in Ezekiel 43:12 (70 X 90 cubits) was not giving the dimensions of the Temple, but of the "partition wall". If Ezra says the temple was finished "according to the commandment of the God of Israel", then it was. God Himself said He was going to "take pleasure" and "be glorified" in the work of the Temple construction in Haggai 1:8. He said He would give "peace of soul" to everyone building to raise up that Temple (Haggai 2:9 LXX).

If God was satisfied with their accomplishment done in obedience to His commandment, and blessed the work of their hands in the post-exilic return era, why should you or I have a problem with that fulfillment? That Ezekiel Temple was finished, just as Ezra 6:14 said, and serviced by a high priesthood that was strictly limited to an unbroken genealogical line all the way back to Zadok. Ezekiel's Temple is not going to be built in our future, since Christ forever changed the law of the high priesthood when He established the New Covenant in His own blood, and became our high priest forever after the different order of Melchizedek.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Theologians were looking for a decree from some king to restore Jerusalem, because they did not understand what Heavenly Jerusalem is. Daniel says "command" (Strong 1697 "speech, word") , not "decree". It is this verbal command of King Artaxerxes that we find in the book of Esther 8:7,8.

I just noticed in the margin of my KJV for Ezra 6:14 that the translated word "commandment of the God of Israel" and the "commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia" are translated as "DECREE" in Chaldean. It seems that "commandment" and "decree" meant the same thing as handed down by both God and the Persian kings for the restoration of Jerusalem and its Temple in the post-exilic return.

 

[Biblewriter]

You must be able to reconcile Ezra's statement in Ezra 6:14 with your texts. The LXX in Ezekiel 43:12 (70 X 90 cubits) was not giving the dimensions of the Temple, but of the "partition wall". If Ezra says the temple was finished "according to the commandment of the God of Israel", then it was. God Himself said He was going to "take pleasure" and "be glorified" in the work of the Temple construction in Haggai 1:8. He said He would give "peace of soul" to everyone building to raise up that Temple (Haggai 2:9 LXX).

If God was satisfied with their accomplishment done in obedience to His commandment, and blessed the work of their hands in the post-exilic return era, why should you or I have a problem with that fulfillment? That Ezekiel Temple was finished, just as Ezra 6:14 said, and serviced by a high priesthood that was strictly limited to an unbroken genealogical line all the way back to Zadok. Ezekiel's Temple is not going to be built in our future, since Christ forever changed the law of the high priesthood when He established the New Covenant in His own blood, and became our high priest forever after the different order of Melchizedek.

No, the wall was 100 x 100 cubits. Do you actually READ the texts you cite?

 

[3 Resurrections]

I'm reading the text you referred to in Ezekiel 43:12. It was a partition wall, not the wall of the house itself, it would seem, if one is reading the LXX.

What is your take-away from Ezra 6:14-15, I might ask? Does this finished second Temple according to God's plans have no significance for you, compared to God's decreed dimensions of Ezekiel's Temple?

 

[Biblewriter]

I'm reading the text you referred to in Ezekiel 43:12. It was a partition wall, not the wall of the house itself, it would seem, if one is reading the LXX.

What is your take-away from Ezra 6:14-15, I might ask? Does this finished second Temple according to God's plans have no significance for you, compared to God's decreed dimensions of Ezekiel's Temple?

The fact that Ezra's temple was completed in accordance with God's commandment, which, by the way, was made to Cyrus, not to the Jews, (Ezra 1:2) has zero bearing on the temple prophesied in Ezekiel.

We know, not only that the dimensions of the temple itself were significantly different, but that no part of the entire prophecy, from Ezekiel 40 through Ezekiel 48, has ever been fulfilled. Nor has, for that matter, the prophecy in Ezekiel 38-39 nor the two prophecies in Ezekiel 36 and 37. Every one of these twelve chapters (the entire last 1/4 of the book) has numerous details that have unquestionably never been fulfilled.

 

[3 Resurrections]

We know, not only that the dimensions of the temple itself were significantly different, but that no part of the entire prophecy, from Ezekiel 40 through Ezekiel 48, has ever been fulfilled. Nor has, for that matter, the prophecy in Ezekiel 38-39 nor the two prophecies in Ezekiel 36 and 37. Every one of these twelve chapters (the entire last 1/4 of the book) has numerous details that have unquestionably never been fulfilled.

That is a matter of subjective opinion, you know. To be fair to the OP, we shouldn't really dive off in the direction that discusses all those points, but there are dates and references connected with those fulfillments, and matching historical records.

 

[Biblewriter]

That is a matter of subjective opinion, you know. To be fair to the OP, we shouldn't really dive off in the direction that discusses all those points, but there are dates and references connected with those fulfillments, and matching historical records.

The details of the historical records you are citing do not even APPROXIMATELY match the details of ANY of these prophecies.

I have thoroughly examined this false claim in high detail. And the historical records typically match only about 10% to 15% of the details on the prophecies you people claim to have been fulfilled. That, by the way, means that 85% to 90% of the details in the historical records are distinctly different from the details in the prophecies involved.

So no, it is not a matter of opinion that these prophecies have not been fulfilled. It is hard fact. And there is nothing subjective about it.

 

[3 Resurrections]

I have thoroughly examined this false claim in high detail. And the historical records typically match only about 10% to 15% of the details on the prophecies you people cclaim tohave been fulfilled.

So no, it is not a matter of opinion that these prophecies have not been fulfilled. It is hard fact.

Not to discount the honest effort I'm sure you have made to understand these things, but others have put in equal amounts of effort and have come to polar opposite conclusions. "Let every one be fully persuaded in his own mind", I guess Paul would say.

 

[Biblewriter]

Not to discount the honest effort I'm sure you have made to understand these things, but others have put in equal amounts of effort and have come to polar opposite conclusions. "Let every one be fully persuaded in his own mind", I guess Paul would say.

You cannot produce even one scholar that would be so dishonest as to claim that every etail of any of these prophecies has been fulfilled. Such a claim would cause the person to be laughed off the stage.

ALL of the Preterist claims that these prophecies have been fulfilled, are based on historical records that differ significantly from what the prophecies say. This is HARD FACT that cannot be denied.

The problem is that Preterists claim that the details are not important. This is a direct contradiction of the very words pf Jesus himself, "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." (Matthew 5:18)

So Jesus said, not only every word was important, but even the very spelling of every word.

By comparison, every detail of Daniel 11:2-35 was fulfilled literally, down to the tiniest detail, so completely that unbelievers say that its very accuracy proves that it could not have been written before the events took place.

 

[3 Resurrections]

By comparison, every detail of Daniel 11:2-35 was fulfilled literally, down to the tiniest detail, so completely that unbelievers say that its very accuracy proves that it could not have been written before the events took place.

Yes, indeed they were fulfilled. I once read a gentleman's commentary that went through all the historical events that Daniel 11:2-35 predicted, down to the very last word. It was truly amazing that Daniel could cover every single historical event in advance, with such precision. Very faith-confirming.

But why stop there at verse 35? Daniel doesn't.

 

[Biblewriter]

Yes, indeed they were fulfilled. I once read a gentleman's commentary that went through all the historical events that Daniel 11:2-35 predicted, down to the very last word. It was truly amazing that Daniel could cover every single historical event in advance, with such precision. Very faith-confirming.

But why stop there at verse 35? Daniel doesn't.

Because Daniel 11:35 says, "And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time." Daniel 11:35

nd, although Preterists pretend that the rest of the chapter has also been fulfilled, the total accuracy of the previous 33 verses suddenly disappears. Most of the details in the historical records alleged to show the fulfillment of the rest of the chapter totally fail to match the details in Daniel 11:36-45.

 

[3 Resurrections]

nd, although Preterists pretend that the rest of the chapter has also been fulfilled, the total accuracy of the previous 33 verses suddenly disappears. Most of the details in the historical records alleged to show the fulfillment of the rest of the chapter totally fail to match the details in Daniel 11:36-45.

You say "MOST" historical records fail to match...so you apparently think some DO match, yes? I would be interested in which details in the rest of Daniel 11 that you think DO match up with historical record. And if SOME DO, then why not more of them? Why not all? After all, there is no break in Daniel's style of chronological prediction, even until the end of Daniel chapter 12. Why should Daniel's "total accuracy" that you recognize suddenly "disappear" after Daniel 11:35, when before that verse you agree that he was spot-on in predicting historical events?

Because Daniel 11:35 says, "And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time." Daniel 11:35

By Daniel writing about "the time of the end", I take that to be referring to Peter's statement in 1 Peter 4:7, "But the END of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer." Aka, the end of the age when the power of Daniel's people was shattered, not the final end of fallen man's history on this planet in our future, which is another subject altogether.

 

[jgr]

You say "MOST" historical records fail to match...so you apparently think some DO match, yes? I would be interested in which details in the rest of Daniel 11 that you think DO match up with historical record. And if SOME DO, then why not more of them? Why not all? After all, there is no break in Daniel's style of chronological prediction, even until the end of Daniel chapter 12. Why should Daniel's "total accuracy" that you recognize suddenly "disappear" after Daniel 11:35, when before that verse you agree that he was spot-on in predicting historical events?



By Daniel writing about "the time of the end", I take that to be referring to Peter's statement in 1 Peter 4:7, "But the END of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer." Aka, the end of the age when the power of Daniel's people was shattered, not the final end of fallen man's history on this planet in our future, which is another subject altogether.

Dispensational futurism must contrive and impose its dispensational decapitations upon prophetic history in order to perpetuate its futurized fantasies and fallacies. Otherwise, it implodes.

Thus there is a repetition of the type of decapitation which is previously flagrantly imposed upon Daniel's fulfilled 70th week in order to conform it to the dispensational narrative.

Such are the trademarks of modernist dispensational futurism's distortion, delusion, fallacy, and fantasy.

Daniel 11:36 unquestionably begins a description of the era of king Herod.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Thus there is a repetition of the type of decapitation which is previously flagrantly imposed upon Daniel's fulfilled 70th week in order to conform it to the dispensational narrative.

For myself, I'm a firm believer in a NO-GAP interpretation of Daniel's 70-weeks prophecy. Dated 454 BC with the Nehemiah 2 decree by Artaxerxes until AD 37 with Paul's Jerusalem temple vision commission to go "far hence unto the Gentiles".

 

[Biblewriter]

You say "MOST" historical records fail to match...so you apparently think some DO match, yes? I would be interested in which details in the rest of Daniel 11 that you think DO match up with historical record. And if SOME DO, then why not more of them? Why not all? After all, there is no break in Daniel's style of chronological prediction, even until the end of Daniel chapter 12. Why should Daniel's "total accuracy" that you recognize suddenly "disappear" after Daniel 11:35, when before that verse you agree that he was spot-on in predicting historical events?



By Daniel writing about "the time of the end", I take that to be referring to Peter's statement in 1 Peter 4:7, "But the END of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer." Aka, the end of the age when the power of Daniel's people was shattered, not the final end of fallen man's history on this planet in our future, which is another subject altogether.

I have checked many such claims, and typically, the details of the historical records alleged to show the fulfillment of these prophecies, only match on the order os 10 to 15 percent of the details in the prophecies alleged to have been fulfilled. That is an 85 to 90 percent failure to match. It has been some years since the last tome I reviewed the claims about the last part of Daniel 11. So I do not remember the details. But I do remember that it was the typical numbers.