The 3rd seal is about 7 years of famine all over the world

R. Hartono said:

You are just denying Jesus's promise.

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Can you show us the Bible verses where it is written TEXTUALLY that Jesus will take the believers TO HEAVEN while they are ALIVE to avoid any Tribulation being small or GREAT ?

Even in the parable of the TEN VIRGINS there is no mention that Jesus will take someone to Heaven while they are alive ...

The only place that you will find mention of the supposed `wise virgins` being raptured to Heaven while the rest of the Church is left behind ,is in the satanic vision of Margaret Mac-Donald and the writings of John Nelson Darby the inventor of modern dispensation...who was very interested in the vision of Margaret Mac Donald had in 1830.

Margaret MacDonald's Vision :
http://www.preteristarchive.com/dEmEnTiA/1975_macpherson_incredible-coverup.html

John Nelson Darby - Wikipedia

...who have been repeated by your local Pastor formed at Dallas Theological Institute.

R. Hartono said:

You wouldnt believe it either, its written not for the unbelievers.

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You are admitting that you cannot find any verses in the Bible where Jesus have said textually that he will remove the believers out of the Earth to Heaven to avoid Tribulation -be it small or GREAT-

You have placed 99.99 % of your faith into the pretty fable of a supposed pre-tribulation rapture of the wise virgins while the rest of the Church is left behind on the Earth ...who come from a Satanic vision that Margaret MacDonald had in 1830....Good Luck with that belief !

Margaret MacDonald's Vision :
http://www.preteristarchive.com/dEmEnTiA/1975_macpherson_incredible-coverup.html

R. Hartono said:

You have no faith to believe that Jesus will take His church/the wise virgins to Heaven for the Feast of the Lamb.

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I have nothing to do with fables and unscriptural theories.
My faith is in the Lord's saving power during the hard times ahead. I will endure until the end, as Revelation 13:10 and Revelation 14:12 tells us we must do.

The FATHERS house IS in Heaven .......can you who disagree prove it is not in Heaven ?

Jesus says plainly in simple terms.....

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

(WYC)
2 In the house of my Father be many dwellings; if any thing less, I had said to you [if any thing less, I should have said to you], for I go to make ready to you a place.

3 And if I go, and make ready to you a place, again I come, and I shall take you to myself, that where I am, ye be.

(NIV)2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.


Jesus plainly says that He will come for those who love Him and take them back to His Fathers house --- located in Heaven !
If it be a requirement that we be dead first he would have told us so ,
When he spoke this he was speaking to people who are alive and when He fulfills this the people he takes will be alive

Riberra said:

Even if the marriage occurs right there in Heaven at that moment ...Jesus is dealing with THE SOULS OF DEAD BELIEVERS... They are wearing fine linen white and pure which is The Righteous ACTS of the SAINTS.

THE Righteous Acts Of The Saints is not about someone who pray very hard to be wisked away while watching TV and eating potato chips,,,,


Revelation 19
7 Let us rejoice and be exceeding glad, and let us give the glory unto him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And it was given unto her that she should array herself in fine linen, white [and] pure: for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they that are bidden to the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are true words of God.

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You can imagine the church will be dead believers at the marriage, but you will be wrong. The truth is, the resurrection of the dead in Christ, and the changing of those alive and in Christ will happen over 7 years previous to the marriage. Those at the marriage will all have resurrection bodies. Remember, when one is born again, they are given the robe of righteousness - HIS righteousness! Because we have His righteousness, we can do righteous acts.

seventysevens said:

The FATHERS house IS in Heaven .......can you who disagree prove it is not in Heaven ?

Jesus says plainly in simple terms.....

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

(WYC)
2 In the house of my Father be many dwellings; if any thing less, I had said to you [if any thing less, I should have said to you], for I go to make ready to you a place.

3 And if I go, and make ready to you a place, again I come, and I shall take you to myself, that where I am, ye be.

(NIV)2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.


Jesus plainly says that He will come for those who love Him and take them back to His Fathers house --- located in Heaven !
If it be a requirement that we be dead first he would have told us so ,
When he spoke this he was speaking to people who are alive and when He fulfills this the people he takes will be alive

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Yes he talked that to the 12 Apostles who were ALIVE and that mean that they will be resurrected on the EARTH ,at the same time that those who will be part of the FIRST BODILY Resurrection to reign on the Earth with Jesus during 1,000 years Revelation 20:4-6....the 12 apostles will sit on 12 Thrones during the millennium ... and they will enter the New Jerusalem with all those whose names are written in the Book of Life at the End of the 1,000 years ---->when New Jerusalem will come down on the New Earth
Revelation 3:12
12 He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine own new name.
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Revelation 21 ---Revelation 22.
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You are absolutely right that Jesus will keep His promise....but you will not receive that reward before that you die ....and be resurrected to be judged...[ at the exception of the few believers who will still be alive and REMAIN after the 42 months reign of the Beast Revelation 13 [that will precede the Coming of Jesus in the CLOUDS IN GLORY] --->and that you have not taken the mark and that you have not worshiped the Beast/AC and his image]

seventysevens said:

The FATHERS house IS in Heaven .......can you who disagree prove it is not in Heaven ?

Jesus says plainly in simple terms.....

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

(WYC)
2 In the house of my Father be many dwellings; if any thing less, I had said to you [if any thing less, I should have said to you], for I go to make ready to you a place.

3 And if I go, and make ready to you a place, again I come, and I shall take you to myself, that where I am, ye be.

(NIV)2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.


Jesus plainly says that He will come for those who love Him and take them back to His Fathers house --- located in Heaven !
If it be a requirement that we be dead first he would have told us so ,
When he spoke this he was speaking to people who are alive and when He fulfills this the people he takes will be alive

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some people imagine John wrote it like this:

2 In my Father's house [in heaven] are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to [heaven to] prepare a place for you [in heaven].

3 And if I go [to heaven] and prepare a place for you [in heaven], I will come again [to the air], and receive you unto myself [in the air]; that where I am [going, on the earth], there [on the earth] ye may be also.

Is this the intent of the Author? of course it is not. Jesus will come and get us pretrib, and we will be with Him in heaven for 7 years.

iamlamad said:

some people imagine John wrote it like this:

2 In my Father's house [in heaven] are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to [heaven to] prepare a place for you [in heaven].

3 And if I go [to heaven] and prepare a place for you [in heaven], I will come again [to the air], and receive you unto myself [in the air]; that where I am [going, on the earth], there [on the earth] ye may be also.

Is this the intent of the Author? of course it is not. Jesus will come and get us pretrib, and we will be with Him in heaven for 7 years.

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Revelation 3:12
12 He that OVERCOMETH, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine own new name.
=
Revelation 21 ---Revelation 22.

Riberra said:

Yes he talked that to the 12 Apostles who were ALIVE and that mean that they will be resurrected on the EARTH ,

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You have gone the way of absolute absurdity

A. Jesus Fathers house Is in Heaven
B. Jesus Goes to prepare a place for His followers - the place He prepares this place for us is IN HEAVEN at His Fathers House
C. Jesus returns for us and takes us to place he has prepared for us in HEAVEN at His Fathers House
this matches the ancient Jewish wedding- learn about it

Various scriptures tell us that when we die we go to be with Lord Jesus in heaven- Never does it imply that when believers die that Jesus is coming hundreds or thousands of times daily 7 days a week to come and take dead believers to heaven

Absurd to think that Jesus was meaning that after you die you , as they already knew that when they die they will go to heaven , so Jesus had no reason to say what he has said here to tell them something they already knew.

What you should recognize is that you need to reconcile in your own heart and mind that nothing you or any other person that does not believe the facts of a harvest before the GT have to say about will do anything positive for anybody and only causes division - this is why the view of Pan trib came about - it will all pan out in the end view because people are fed up with the mean attitudes that are spewed from people who can't accept the fact of a harvest before the GT - Extremely foolish statements like telling people that pre trib believers will only sit on the couch and eat potato chips -
post triberrs do nothing except spread gloom and doom - your all gonna be beheaded , no one will survive and if you don't get your head cut off you just a afraid etc etc.

To Overcome means to overcome temptations , overcome sins IE - an alcoholic and druggie have stopped submitting to their weakness , and their buddies tempt them with free alcohol and free drugs - the overcomer says no I will overcome these temptations and do what God wants me to do - they find a new group of friends that really care and offer support to those who choose to overcome

Learn what God calls HIS Holy Days - when His HIS Holy Days are and celebrate HIS Holy Days- and how He shows us the physical signs and indicators during those days
God did not declare Christmas and Easter as Holy Days , - western world celebrates only those days and they do not observe and celebrate HIS Holy Days - you will likely never hear of Gods Holy Days taught in America churches and HIS Holy Days are spoken of By Jesus
Your mindset is compared to those who support the notion that all life came from a single cell amoeba that grew fins then they turn into legs and crawled onto land then turned into every living creature that walks on earth and then became birds that fly ion the air === ANYTHING at all no matter how bizarre they believe just as long as it is not God created life out of nothing--- and just as strange is people who profess they love God and all people will knowingly berate their brethren only because they believe that Jesus meant what He said when he said he will keep us out of the GT

Jesus said to love your enemies - why can't you love your Brethren
Jesus said we will rule and reign with Him in His kingdom - that means Jesus will appoint people into various ruling positions as HE Determines and how His people treat their Brethren will certainly be a big part of Jesus determining who holds what position in His Kingdom

seventysevens said:

You have gone the way of absolute absurdity

A. Jesus Fathers house Is in Heaven
B. Jesus Goes to prepare a place for His followers - the place He prepares this place for us is IN HEAVEN at His Fathers House
C. Jesus returns for us and takes us to place he has prepared for us in HEAVEN at His Fathers House
this matches the ancient Jewish wedding- learn about it

Various scriptures tell us that when we die we go to be with Lord Jesus in heaven- Never does it imply that when believers die that Jesus is coming hundreds or thousands of times daily 7 days a week to come and take dead believers to heaven

Absurd to think that Jesus was meaning that after you die you , as they already knew that when they die they will go to heaven , so Jesus had no reason to say what he has said here to tell them something they already knew.

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Yes, their SOULS have gone to Heaven when they died...as well as the SOULS OF ALL THE BELIEVERS who have died since then.The crowd to large to number that John saw before the Throne of God in Heaven in Revelation 7:9-16 -----.>are all the SOULS of DEAD believers that John SAW in HEAVEN.

I said that they will be resurrected in their physical body in Revelation 20:4-6 to reign 1,000 years with Jesus ...When Jesus will come at His Second Coming ....And That the believers will have access to the House [New Jerusalem the City Of GOD] only when the House will come down to the Earth [Revelation 21]which is after the Great White throne Judgment after the millennium.

seventysevens said:

What you should recognize is that you need to reconcile in your own heart and mind that nothing you or any other person that does not believe the facts of a harvest before the GT have to say about will do anything positive for anybody and only causes division -

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Are you sure that you have not adding something
There is no mention in John 14:2 of the Great Tribulation nor that there will be a harvest before Jesus Second Coming....

In John 14:2 there is no mention of Jesus Coming before the Great Tribulation to take someone to Heaven..

That is what the the Pre-tribulation rapture doctors [doctoring the text of Scriptures] makes you believe.
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John 14:2
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
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But we have the Biblical proof that those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life --will enter New Jerusalem ONLY WHEN THE NEW JERUSALEM WILL COME DOWN ON THE NEW EARTH...after the 1,000 years reign of Jesus.
Revelation 21:1-7
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are passed away; and the sea is no more.
2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven of God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God: 4 and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away.
5 And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true.
6 And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.


25 And the gates thereof shall in no wise be shut by day (for there shall be no night there): 26 and they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it: 27 and there shall in no wise enter into it anything unclean, or he that maketh an abomination and a lie: but only they that are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Riberra said:

Are you sure that you have not adding something

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.



In all of the above there is no mention of Jesus Coming before the Great Tribulation to take someone to Heaven...

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Question for you - it is necessary for someone to wake you up each day and tell you to brush your teeth - put on clean clothes -and go to work ? Wash behind your ears and tie your shoes ?
Not likely for a grown man who has learned about life and the fundamentals of living ,

Sayings like "we know what each other is thinking with just a look "speaks to how well people know each other
When a person truly understands - it is not necessary to speak each and every word to get the meaning across .
Since you choose to ignore many scriptures and certainly do not include them you have limited your understanding of what you will accept . As I have stated many times many many Christians will only study scripture from a western world view and won't even consider the intent that comes from a culture that is on the other side of the planet that has very different laws and cultures and traditions , To only study from an English western world view is like forcing a square block into a round hole - a lot of it is removed in the process .

You need to learn to approach the scriptures from vantage point like a CSI -asking questions of why various scriptures are there and how they fit into the whole puzzle ,. ALL scripture must fit together

Jesus makes a very declarative statement here and it is not about dying or resurrection as those things are not in the text, He is saying he is going to His fathers house to prepare it for us .

When a group of guys are playing basketball and the wives say they are going to cook dinner and will come back for the guys after dinner is prepared - do you need to be told that you will be eating dinner together with them when they come to get you ?

Point is that just because Jesus did not say he is going to come and rapture the saints when he has prepared the rooms in His Fathers house - you have to study ALL - ALL _ALL scripture to find out what is Jesus saying - explore why He says the things He says
I am not asking questions about what He said - I am saying if you pursued that way of learning you would understand more and more deeply -

Some Christians say Jesus never claimed to be God - simply because in order for them to believe it ; Jesus would have to say exactly I AM GOD - but if he did he would not been able to finish His ministry because of the laws the people there lived by - In modern times in the western world people would just laugh and blow it off - in ancient Israel it is demanded by law to kill anyone that says that.

Your assumption that Everyone during the GT will be killed -beheaded is totally false - a lot of people will be killed and beheaded but definitely not all - a lot of people will live through it and they will be the people who will be ruled and reigned over by Jesus and the saints who come with Him - those people will have children during the 1000 that satan is imprisoned - people who reject Christ will die - people who accept Christ will live but they will be mortal and -those who were raptured before the GT and those who be gathered at Jesus coming to establish His kingdom will be immortal ruling and reigning with Jesus-

Since the details have been posted multiple times I won't go into that again. Since you choose not to study Gods Holy Days there is a lot of important information you do not know - hence your understanding has been limited - you can learn and expand your understanding , but only if you Choose to do so

seventysevens said:

Question for you - it is necessary for someone to wake you up each day and tell you to brush your teeth - put on clean clothes -and go to work ? Wash behind your ears and tie your shoes ?
Not likely for a grown man who has learned about life and the fundamentals of living ,

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The fundamental of living is that one day you will die and after that you will be judged ,,,if your name if found written in the Book of Life you will have eternal life ...if not see Revelation 20:15.

For some reason you believe that you are the exception, that you will not die ..that you don't need to be Judged

Genesis 3:4
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Riberra said:

The fundamental of living is that one day you will die and after that you will be judged ,,,if your name if found written in the Book of Life you will have eternal life ...if not see Revelation 20:15.

For some reason you believe that you are the exception that you will not die ...

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You seem to think you know it all - and anyone who does not agree with you is wrong
You lack understanding of many scriptures as you accept only that which fits your preference
Not only I will live but many millions along with me

seventysevens said:

You seem to think you know it all - and anyone who does not agree with you is wrong
You lack understanding of many scriptures as you accept only that which fits your preference
Not only I will live but many millions along with me

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If your name is found written in the Book of life ....AFTER THAT YOU DIED.

Revelation 20:11-15

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the DEAD, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the DEAD WERE JUDGED out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, [even] the lake of fire.

15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

Riberra said:

If your name is found written in the Book of life

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It is already there now , I am quite alive , if I die it will not be due to being the the GT as I will not be in that