The 2nd Coming of Christ ???

[Brian45]

Parousia 70 , please note the difference in the questions that were put to jesus :

 

Matthew&nbsp; 24&nbsp; :&nbsp; <SUP>)</SUP> <SUP>3</SUP> Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

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Luke&nbsp; 21&nbsp; :&nbsp; <SUP>3</SUP><SUP>)</SUP> <SUP>7</SUP> So they asked Him, saying, "Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?"&nbsp;&nbsp;

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Mark&nbsp; 13&nbsp; :&nbsp; <SUP>)</SUP> <SUP>3</SUP> Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately,<SUP> 4</SUP>"Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?"&nbsp;

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In this case&nbsp; 1 + 1 + 1&nbsp;&nbsp; does not&nbsp; =&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;



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[Brian45]

Originally posted by parousia70
Brian.

Thank you for clarifying which prophesies you do believe are fulfilled in Jerusalems destruction.

I'd like to do a little simple math with you, to show you why I believe your "limitation" unwarranted.

We can see from scripture itself that the Olivet cannot be divided to insert some far distant future. &nbsp;Luke 21:20-22 was actually the time the "Son of Man was revealed" according to scripture. &nbsp;Of course, we should already believe this because those were "the Days of Vengeance THAT ALL THINGS WRITTEN BE FULFILLED" (Luke 21:22).

However, let's let scripture interpret scripture and see that AD67-70 was the time when the Son of Man was revealed:

____________________________________________________
--COMPARE THIS--

Luke 21:20-21- (A)
"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. &nbsp;Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;
[67-70AD, as you agree]

--TO THIS--

Matthew 24:16-18 - (B)
then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. &nbsp;Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak ...
[66/67AD too, by parallel with Luke 21:20-21--AND NOW THIS--

Luke 17:30-32 - (C)
Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed. &nbsp;On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.
[66/67AD by parallel with Matt 24:16-18]
_____________________________________________________


Here is the explicit relationship of the three above Olivet verses using rules of logic and interpretation:

If 'A' = 'B'
And if 'B' = 'C'
THEN A = C



THE FINAL CONCLUSION:

IF
(A) &nbsp;Luke 21:20-21 = (B) Matthew 24:16-18

--AND--
(B) Matthew 24:16-18 &nbsp;= &nbsp;(C) Luke 17:30-32

--THEN--
(A) Luke 21:20-21 = (C) &nbsp;Luke 17:30-32</B>



The rules of logic demand that if A=B and if B=C, THEN 'A' MUST = 'C'. &nbsp;This PROVES beyond all doubt that Luke 21:20-22 must also have been "The Day in which the Son of Man was revealed," exactly as Luke 17:30-31 says. &nbsp;The time when the Judean Christians fled the city and countryside, coming straight off the roofs and not returning from the fields, &nbsp;was "the Day when the Son of Man was revealed." &nbsp; We get this certain fact according to Luke 17:30-31 which is parallel to Matt 24:16-18 which is parallel to Luke 21:20-21. &nbsp;When scripture interprets scripture, 67-70 was the time for the Son of Man to be revealed.


Simple as ABC, don't ya think?

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Luke 17&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation;<SUP> 21</SUP>nor will they say, "See here!' or "See there!'<SUP>[4]</SUP> For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you."

Jesus spoke those words to the non believing pharisees ,&nbsp; he then speaks differently to his believing disciples&nbsp;.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

&nbsp;

Then He said to the disciples, "The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.<SUP> 23</SUP>And they will say to you, "Look here!' or "Look there!'<SUP>[5]</SUP> Do not go after them or follow them.<SUP> 24</SUP>For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day.<SUP> 25</SUP>But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.<SUP> 26</SUP>And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:<SUP> 27</SUP>They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.<SUP> 28</SUP>Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;<SUP> 29</SUP>but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.<SUP> 30</SUP>Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
<SUP>31</SUP>"In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back.<SUP> 32</SUP>Remember Lot's wife.<SUP> 33</SUP>Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.<SUP> 34</SUP>I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left.<SUP> 35</SUP>Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left.<SUP> 36</SUP>Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left."<SUP>[6]</SUP>
<SUP>37</SUP>And they answered and said to Him, "Where, Lord?"
So He said to them, "Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together."

Parousia 70&nbsp; ,&nbsp; could you explain to me how you believe the above prophecy is parallel to what happened in 67-70 AD&nbsp; , as I don't believe that .

And I'd like to add , the main thrust of Matthews prophecy was relevent to the questions asked :

Matthew 24 :&nbsp; Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

 

[EJO]

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed [is] he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Rev 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Just a note as well; the trinity is not mentioned in the Bible either, but it is a scriptural truth.

God Bless gentlemen

 

[IB]

Here is a thought, Do we have salvation now?

Heb 9:27-28 (NIV):

27Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

If one believes we have salvation now then Jesus returned a second time and brought salvation to those who were waiting. If one believes Jesus has not returned then salvation has not been brought to those waiting.

Please respond with any questions, comments, concerns, or observations

Idaho Bassman

 

[franklin]

Originally posted by IB
Here is a thought, Do we have salvation now?
Heb 9:27-28 (NIV): If one believes we have salvation now then Jesus returned a second time and brought salvation to those who were waiting. If one believes Jesus has not returned then salvation has not been brought to those waiting. Please respond with any questions, comments, concerns, or observations

IB, Salvation did not come when Jesus died at the cross, but complete salvation came only at the Parousia of Christ, in the last days.

Acts 3:19-21 "That your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus Christ.. whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things (cf. Luke 21:22,32), which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began (cf. Revelation 10:7)."

Sins were not blotted out at the cross. This passage says sins will be blotted out at the "second coming" of Christ! Hebrews 8:12-13; 10:16-17 confirms that God will not remember our sins anymore, but the new covenant must come in full force before this could happen. Redemption was not at the cross, but was looked at as still future:&nbsp; Here are some passages that specifically state salvation was a yet future time for those living before Christ's&nbsp;Parousia: &nbsp;

Acts 15:11, "But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they."

Notice Peter says that we (believers in Christ) "shall" be saved. Notice that it was yet future. They were not saved yet, apart from the bondage of the law. This did not happen until 70AD when God destroyed Old Covenant Israel forever.

1 Thessalonians 5:8, "But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation." Salvation was a "hope," it was not a reality yet.

1 Peter 1:5, "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." Salvation was "ready" to be revealed, but was not revealed yet.

Romans 13:11, "…for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed."

Many years after the cross, the apostles did not say they had salvation yet, but that their salvation was "nearer" than they believed. If they had salvation already, they would not say it was "near." Salvation, to them, was something they looked forward to at Christ's&nbsp;Parousia.

 

[IB]

IB, Salvation did not come when Jesus died at the cross, but complete salvation came only at the Parousia of Christ, in the last days.

I agree, as a matter of fact that was the point I was trying to make. The Gospel is the death, burrial, AND resurrection of Jesus(1cor15:1-5). His death on the cross would not have had much meaning if he did not raise on the third day like he said he would. So salvation would not have much meaning if Jesus did not return like and when he said he would.

Idaho Bassman