17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. JN 1
So who is correct? You or John one of the 12 disciples?
bugkiller
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17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. JN 1Hardly so.
And when you believe the Mosaic law is so named because Moses gave the law on Mt.Sinai you are not only mistaken but hardly qualified to criticize when it becomes apparent you haven't read Exodus.
Yup..... if you confuse people enough they will then believe the ones that post the most text regardless of the truth.You know they need confusion.
bugkiller
Then why don't you keep them?Only because of the Holy Sprit and Christ's righteousness... something the Israelites didn't have. Having been given the proper context and understanding of the Decalogue by Jesus, we now can, through the same power that strengthened Christ to be able to keep them. He is our example in ALL things not just some.
Actually his post sort of diminishes Christ as NOT GOD as he needed to be "strengthened" by the Holy Spirit in order to keep the Law, what is ironice is according to the Bible the Holy Spirit didn't fall on Jesus till John the Baptist dunked him so he was apparently keeping the commandments perfectly until that point without "help" or being strengthened.Then why don't you keep them?
bugkiller
Scripture please.Isn't that an amazing claim? The ten commandments don't apply anymore.
That's why Jesus wasted his time and had no idea what he was talking about when he recalled them during his ministry. And said that until the heaven and earth pass away his words and those laws will not pass away.
At one time I was so legalistic and pious that I was very well thought of in the SDA church. I was on the board and at different times head deacon and an elder. I could bring up names of people that were not "kosher" and the board would agree that they should be disfellowshiped. One of my young deacons wore a pendant to church and I refused to allow him to take up offering. He left and didn't come back. After the incident I started to think of what I had become. I know now that it was the Holy Spirit working on my heart. Legalism is a terrible thing and I am so very glad I was cured. This started my trek out of Adventism. It was a slow process, but the good seed was planted. God has changed my life, thanks be to God.Just to add a bit on grace: I learnt something recently about grace: if we are unwilling to show it, we will not get it; the whole purpose of the teachings of Jesus can be summed up in 2 words: grace/mercy and equality. Either we show mercy to others or we will not get it from God. It is mercy in practice that softens a heart and changes it from a heart of stone to one of flesh and thus writes the laws of God upon our hearts.
The Torah of Moses did not offer mercy between men, as a rule, except if a person did harm without intention: this is also where most people are failing today towards each other and therefor with God. To me this sums up the problem with those who wish to impose rules upon themselves and others: they don't understand that it is the practice of mercy and not sacrifice that makes a man right before God.
It is when one adds equality into the practice of being merciful that they will stop acting in offences towards others: as they will consider others' rights and not offend them.
Why would you ask that when those scriptures they're referring to have been repeated in these type threads .Scripture please.
It's been a while since I discovered a wealth of info on that subject.Looking forward to your proving that claim as you post those statistics.
If His death is a timeline reference of a change in covenants, then by showing that He kept and taught proper intent of the law was not a waste of time. The promise of a New Covenant unlike the one given through those who left Egypt, are words that can not and did not pass away. That's why Paul wrote:Isn't that an amazing claim? The ten commandments don't apply anymore.
That's why Jesus wasted his time and had no idea what he was talking about when he recalled them during his ministry. And said that until the heaven and earth pass away his words and those laws will not pass away.
Because the person misquoted the thought. You seem not to be any better at what the scripture really is saying.Why would you ask that when those scriptures they're referring to have been repeated in these type threads .
You have no idea what the text is telling us. How Could Jesus tell us that not one jot or one title pass from the law and then abolish part of the law?I'd think those who hope to teach the commands of God, the ten, do not apply anymore would take heed of the warning in Matthew 5.
Jesus abolished the ceremonial law and the dietary law, which were hand in hand, when he died on the cross.
Nine moral laws are written on/in our hearts? Is that what you believe is written in our hearts? If so then I believe you are limiting what is really written in our hearts. There are many more things that can and do hurt our fellow man. The most important is the laws of love. Those two laws cover everything concerning morality.While God says in scripture he put his laws inside our hearts, and I take that to mean they arrived with the indwelling of his Holy Spirit, Hebrews 8:10. Those would be the moral laws. Being we're told in scripture that immorality is damnation.
What do you mean "if"? You said the ceremonial and diatary laws were abolished. That would mean that all the remainder of the law, in your mind, is still binding. Stone the adulterer, Sabbath breaker, punish like the law demands and do all the remainder of things the law required.Therefore, if the laws were abolished with Jesus,
So, you are writing that I am not a Christian because I am not in harmony with what you believe?as some hope to convince Christians,
John 15:10what was Jesus talking about when he says he imparts his laws into our hearts and minds? Especially when God stated the same thing backin Jeremiah 31:33.
If His death is a timeline reference of a change in covenants, then by showing that He kept and taught proper intent of the law was not a waste of time. The promise of a New Covenant unlike the one given through those who left Egypt, are words that can not and did not pass away. That's why Paul wrote:
Rom 3:21 But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses
Rom 3:22 We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.
I hated the condemnation I felt when I was constantly told that my salvation rested upon keeping rules else I was going to hell.
I keep reiterating 1Jn 3:19-24 where John lays out the duty of Christians and how we know we are on the correct path. The plan of salvation is very simple, so simple a child recognizes it and submits.Actually your salvation does depend upon rules: the rule and rules of Christ.
Not how I read it, salvation is a gift and the only rule is we have to accept it by faith. The "rules" are guidelines on how Christians should act but without knowing them (not given a written rulebook) you would have people accepting Christ doubting their salvation when it is such that those who are truly saved automatically try to love others and please God and in doing so they tend to not do things that "rules" say not to do. We don't have Jesus proclaiming any rules for the thief on the cross at all do we?Actually your salvation does depend upon rules: the rule and rules of Christ.
I believe the book of James is in the Bible for good reasons. We Christians need to be reminded that our faith is really a dead faith without responding to the needs of others and how we treat all people.Not how I read it, salvation is a gift and the only rule is we have to accept it by faith. The "rules" are guidelines on how Christians should act but without knowing them (not given a written rulebook) you would have people accepting Christ doubting their salvation when it is such that those who are truly saved automatically try to love others and please God and in doing so they tend to not do things that "rules" say not to do. We don't have Jesus proclaiming any rules for the thief on the cross at all do we?
Yes, but too often those who need to be reminded of doing works don't have the spirit in them to desire to help others, then doing these works won't make a faith that they don't have to begin with exist.I believe the book of James is in the Bible for good reasons. We Christians need to be reminded that our faith is really a dead faith without responding to the needs of others and how we treat all people.
Many are not ware that Paul was focused on works of the law, so his statements represent that view. James was teaching something entirely different. He was focused on good deeds, works of good deeds. For many years I didn't realize this and was very confused. I thought Paul and James were at odds.Yes, but too often those who need to be reminded of doing works don't have the spirit in them to desire to help others, then doing these works won't make a faith that they don't have to begin with exist.
The main problem is people who both contend that works are more important than faith, when faith is more important than works but works are important especially when they flow from faith as works without faith is dead works just as faith without works is dead faith.
Works based upon the law or rather on feeling obligated by commandments is dead works. The main problem is people getting James twisted and contending that without works you have NO faith at all and that works = keeping the Law. Dead faith is more than no faith because at least works that flow from it make it alive but works flowing from no faith end up as but dirty rags.
Yes, James uses the words "good works" and NOT "works of the Law". I believe that James audience was primarily Jews who associated "godliness" with what the SEE of others like seeing them keep the Law including front and center properly keeping the Sabbath. To put it bluntly Jews had this thinking of "I got to see it to believe it" throughout the Bible God was constantly doing miracles for them to prove himself and these "seen deeds" is something that faith was connected with when dealing with people who need proof..... then faith must have proof to them or it doesn't exist (is dead).Many are not ware that Paul was focused on works of the law, so his statements represent that view. James was teaching something entirely different. He was focused on good deeds, works of good deeds. For many years I didn't realize this and was very confused. I thought Paul and James were at odds.
You're mistaken. The New Covenant was not, and could not be in force until after Christ died.You are actually mistaken: the new covenant started with the baptism of Christ, as it is when Jesus was baptised that he entered into his role as king and his words became law; it is the death of Christ that sealed the covenant just as the words of Moses were spoken and where the bases of the Old Covenant so the words of Jesus as the bases of the New one... it is the blood of the covenant that covers all who abide in the covenants.
You are referring to the seal of the covenant verses the words or instructions of the covenant, the covenant is in the words of Christ it was sealed with his blood, but make no mistake the covenant is in the words of Christ.You're mistaken. The New Covenant was not, and could not be in force until after Christ died.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
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