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The meaning of the Greek adjective πᾶς in any given context is dependent upon whether the noun it modifies is singular or plural, and whether the noun is used with the definite article. When the Greek adjective πᾶς is used with an adjective in the plural but without the definite article (as it is in Titus 2:11), it means: all people/men, everyone. (BADG Lexicon, p. 782)
The fact remains you can't prove that it means each and every individual, as opposed to "everyone of a given group"
It was proven in post #39 of this thread. The Greek adjective πᾶς in Titus 2:11 modifies one and only one grouphuman beings. It does NOT modify any subset of people. The ONLY possible meaning in the Greek text is all human beings.
The Greek adjective πᾶς in Titus 2:11 modifies one and only one grouphuman beings. It does NOT modify any subset of people. Moreover, πασιν ανθρωποις DOES mean every human being and, therefore, it DOES NOT and CANNOT mean all types of humans. This verse shoots Calvins doctrine of election (not to be confused with the biblical doctrine of election) in the heart and not just in the foot; and that is the ONLY reason why some people have insisted that the verse does not mean what it so very plainly means. I realize that the majority is not always right, but the interpretation that I am advocating for is the interpretation held by the very large majority of Christiansand especially those Christians who study the New Testament in its original language.We know it's human beings. The point is pas could mean every human or all types of humans. The context is what dictates the meaning.
The Greek adjective πᾶς in Titus 2:11 modifies one and only one grouphuman beings. It does NOT modify any subset of people. Moreover, πασιν ανθρωποις DOES mean every human being and, therefore, it DOES NOT and CANNOT mean all types of humans. This verse shoots Calvins doctrine of election (not to be confused with the biblical doctrine of election) in the heart and not just in the foot; and that is the ONLY reason why some people have insisted that the verse does not mean what it so very plainly means. I realize that the majority is not always right, but the interpretation that I am advocating for is the interpretation held by the very large majority of Christiansand especially those Christians who study the New Testament in its original language.
The same Greek construction is found in the following verses,
Acts 22:15. For you will be a witness for Him to all men of what you have seen and heard.
Rom. 5:12. Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned
Rom. 5:18. So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men
Rom. 12:17. Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men.
18. If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.
1 Cor. 7:7. Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that.
1 Cor. 15:19. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.
2 Cor. 3:2. You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men;
Phil. 4:5. Let your gentle spirit be known to all men. The Lord is near.
1 Thes. 2:15. who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all men,
1 Tim. 2:4. who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1 Tim. 4:10. For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
Titus 2:11. For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
Acts 22:15 and 2 Cor. 3:2 use the word all in a hyperbolic sense, but none of the verses use the word all to mean all types of humans. 1 Tim. 4:10 is quite interesting to me.
Nobody said it modified a subset of people. Pas itself can mean all types of anything it's linked to. That's why you need context. The context doesn't support your Arminianism.
And context dictates which definition of all to use.
This is nothing but mumbo jumbo. In this context, mumbo jumbo means gibberish which in this context means unintelligible or meaningless language.
No, the grammar (as has already been explained and documented) rather than the context determines the meaning of all in Titus 2:11.
PrincetonGuy,
You admit that the verse by itself sounds like universalism, and yet you suggest that it goes against a reformed interpretation; that sounds like a contradiction.
You have to go to other verses to make the case for your free will theology.
It is only fair then to allow the opposing view to draw from other texts.
As has been stated before, the verse does not indicate the level of man's ability to choose salvation.
If the "plain reading" can come to more than one meaning...it calls for further investigation doesn't it?
Clearly this verse isn't the ultimate anti-calvinist missile you make it out to be.
No, it's the context. Reading this list of people in the first ten verses, can they be described as all (types) of people? Yes. Does the language in v. 11 support that? Yes.
Why are you continuing to reassert these things which are incorrect?
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, (NASB, 1995)
In order for your interpretation to be correct, it would be necessary for the verse to read, For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all these people, but it does not! Moreover, such a reading would not make sense because v. 12 reads,
Titus 2:12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, (NASB, 1995)
and the us is not grammatically included in the these people. In other words, your interpretation is not grammatically possible.
It would only need to be "these people" if Paul was listing specific people. Let's look at what he says.
Titus 2:1-10 But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine. Older men are to be temperate, dignified, sensible, sound in faith, in love, in perseverance. Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored. Likewise urge the young men to be sensible; in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified, sound in speech which is beyond reproach, so that the opponent will be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us. Urge bondslaves to be subject to their own masters in everything, to be well-pleasing, not argumentative, not pilfering, but showing all good faith so that they will adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in every respect.
So what types of people do we have? Older women. Younger women. Older men. Younger men. Bondslaves.
Then he says:
Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
So he lists these TYPES of people and the instruction to give them. Then he says "For (because) the grace of God has appeared to all people (not just a select type, but all types)". And he lists what this grace does; brings salvation (not just potential) and instruction.
If your view was correct, then every single person would be purified from every lawless deed, and be a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds. God's grace actually DOES something.
It would only need to be "these people" if Paul was listing specific people. Let's look at what he says.
Titus 2:1-10 But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine. Older men are to be temperate, dignified, sensible, sound in faith, in love, in perseverance. Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored. Likewise urge the young men to be sensible; in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified, sound in speech which is beyond reproach, so that the opponent will be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us. Urge bondslaves to be subject to their own masters in everything, to be well-pleasing, not argumentative, not pilfering, but showing all good faith so that they will adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in every respect.
So what types of people do we have? Older women. Younger women. Older men. Younger men. Bondslaves.
Then he says:
Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
So he lists these TYPES of people and the instruction to give them. Then he says "For (because) the grace of God has appeared to all people (not just a select type, but all types)". And he lists what this grace does; brings salvation (not just potential) and instruction.
If your view was correct, then every single person would be purified from every lawless deed, and be a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds. God's grace actually DOES something.
The same Greek construction is found in the following verses,
Acts 22:15. For you will be a witness for Him to all men of what you have seen and heard.
Rom. 5:12. Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned
Rom. 5:18. So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men
Rom. 12:17. Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men.
18. If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.
1 Cor. 7:7. Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that.
1 Cor. 15:19. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.
2 Cor. 3:2. You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men;
Phil. 4:5. Let your gentle spirit be known to all men. The Lord is near.
1 Thes. 2:15. who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all men,
1 Tim. 2:4. who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1 Tim. 4:10. For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
Titus 2:11. For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
Acts 22:15 and 2 Cor. 3:2 use the word all in a hyperbolic sense, but none of the verses use the word all to mean all types of humans. 1 Tim. 4:10 is quite interesting to me.
And context dictates which definition of all to use. Thanks for that.
No, the expression all men means exactly the same thing in all of these verses. In none of these verses does the context influence the meaning of the expression all men. This is just as true as the expression πασιν ανθρωποις in the original Greek. Acts 22:15 and 2 Cor. 3:2 use the word all in a hyperbolic sense, and the sense is hyperbolic for the very reason that all men means all men.
It would only need to be "these people" if Paul was listing specific people. Let's look at what he says.
Titus 2:1-10 But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine. Older men are to be temperate, dignified, sensible, sound in faith, in love, in perseverance. Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored. Likewise urge the young men to be sensible; in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified, sound in speech which is beyond reproach, so that the opponent will be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us. Urge bondslaves to be subject to their own masters in everything, to be well-pleasing, not argumentative, not pilfering, but showing all good faith so that they will adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in every respect.
So what types of people do we have? Older women. Younger women. Older men. Younger men. Bondslaves.
Then he says:
Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
So he lists these TYPES of people and the instruction to give them. Then he says "For (because) the grace of God has appeared to all people (not just a select type, but all types)". And he lists what this grace does; brings salvation (not just potential) and instruction.
If your view was correct, then every single person would be purified from every lawless deed, and be a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds. God's grace actually DOES something.
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