~That which is perfect~

[Dr.Strangelove]

5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
perfect.​

14:36 And besought him that they might only touch the hem of his
garment: and as many as touched were made perfectly whole.​

6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect
shall be as his master.​

17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one;
and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast
loved them, as thou hast loved me.​

2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect:​

7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse
ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting
holiness in the fear of God.​

12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my
strength is made perfect in weakness.​

4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of
the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature
of the fulness of Christ:​

3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded:​

1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in
all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:​

3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of
perfectness.​

4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you,
always laboring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand
perfect and complete in all the will of God.​

3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all
good works.​

6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go
on unto perfection;​

7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better
hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.​

9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a
greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to
say, not of this building;​

12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are
written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of
just men made perfect,​

1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and
entire, wanting nothing.​

1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty,​

4:17 Herein is our love made perfect,​

2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God
perfected​

4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God
dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.​

5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory
by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you
perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
​

10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.​

Is that enough perfect guys?​

Do we have a case that we are perfected in Christ. Our love is perfected. We have a perfect law of liberty / tabernacle recorded for all to see in scripture, which is the perfect and true Word of God?​

 

[sunlover1]

10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.​

Is that enough perfect guys?​

Do we have a case that we are perfected in Christ. Our love is perfected. We have a perfect law of liberty / tabernacle recorded for all to see in scripture, which is the perfect and true Word of God?​

So Paul said in many ways that we are made perfect in Christ and then he turned around and in the same breath said when "THAT WHICH IS PERFECT IS COME".

So he says we're perfect and then he takes it back!

ORRRrrrrrrrrrr, "that which is perfect" is referring not to US but THAT (something besides "us")

 

[Ih8s8n]

Is that enough perfect guys?

Do we have a case that we are perfected in Christ. Our love is perfected. We have a perfect law of liberty / tabernacle recorded for all to see in scripture, which is the perfect and true Word of God?

Dr.Strangelove: Ummmm....no. You do pick a mean cherry, though. For example, why did you quote this...

3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded:

....without quoting the verses which precede and follow it? You know, verses like these:

"NOT AS THOUGH I HAD ALREADY ATTAINED, EITHER WERE ALREADY PERFECT: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing." (Philippians 3:12-16)

Wow! Your partial quote, OUT OF CONTEXT, takes on an entirely new meaning when presented IN CONTEXT, doesn't it? Sure, it does. Paul recognized and preached that he was NOT "already perfect". In fact, he frequently talked about such things as our "corruptible" or "vile" bodies that await transformation at Christ's coming. Do you suppose that Paul thought that his body was "perfect"? Don't kid yourself. That's just but one glaring example. Anyhow, Paul encouraged his readers to "press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus". They wouldn't be "pressing" for something that they had already attained. Also, why do none of your quotes give the name of the book from the Bible that they were actually taken from? In my full response that I'll give later on today (I have to do some things for about the next two hours or so), I'll add the books as well to your quotes. Until then...

 

[Ih8s8n]

Dr Strangelove: I have a few more minutes while I wait for my wife to get ready, so I'll quickly address something else that you quoted (mis-).

I CORINTHIANS 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect:

And? Would you have us to believe that the Corinthians were "perfect" in the manner in which you suggest? Sorry, but I'm not that gullible. Backing up just a little bit, we read:

"Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you." (I Corinthians 1:10-11)

Why did Paul have to admonish the Corinthians to be "PERFECTLY joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment" if they were, according to what you propose, already "perfect"? The Corinthians were FAR FROM "perfect". In fact, Paul had to rebuke them for a whole host of things. You know, things like being carnal (I Corinthians 3:1), things like not removing the man who was having sexual relations with his father's wife (I Corinthians chapter 5), things like being drunkards and gluttons at the Lord's table (I Corinthians 11:20-34) and things like not even believing in the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead (I Corinthians chapter 15). That's just a sample. So bad were things at Corinth that Paul had to actually admonish the professing Christians to:

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves." (II Corinthians 13:5)

Is THIS your idea of "perfection"? Seriously, is it?

II CORINTHIANS 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Yet another of your cherry-picked quotes. Even though you didn't properly identify what epistle this quote was from, I just did. It was from Paul's second epistle to these supposedly "perfect" Corinthians. Why did Paul have to admonish them to "perfect holiness in the fear of God" if they were already perfect? Of course, the correct answer is that they were FAR FROM "perfect" and Paul had to remind them of the fear of God to try to get them in line.

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (II Corinthians 6:14-7:1)

In order to not miss out on what God had promised, the Corinthians needed to cleanse themselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit. Once again, I ask:

Is this UNCLEANNESS in flesh and spirit your idea of "perfection"?

I'll address some of your other quotes later.

 

[ARBITER01]

So Paul said in many ways that we are made perfect in Christ and then he turned around and in the same breath said when "THAT WHICH IS PERFECT IS COME".

So he says we're perfect and then he takes it back!

ORRRrrrrrrrrrr, "that which is perfect" is referring not to US but THAT (something besides "us")

Lol, if we had already attained perfection, why is Paul then saying that a glorification still awaits us,..

1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 But when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Dr.Strangelove: Ummmm....no. You do pick a mean cherry, though. For example, why did you quote this...

....without quoting the verses which precede and follow it? You know, verses like these:

"NOT AS THOUGH I HAD ALREADY ATTAINED, EITHER WERE ALREADY PERFECT:

Again, Paul knows that HE is not perfect. But he is MADE perfect by being cloaked in that which IS perfect which is Christs blood. His totally sinless sacrifice. His love perfects us in the sight of God, even though we are sinners.

Wow! Your partial quote, OUT OF CONTEXT, takes on an entirely new meaning when presented IN CONTEXT, doesn't it? Sure, it does. Paul recognized and preached that he was NOT "already perfect". In fact, he frequently talked about such things as our "corruptible" or "vile" bodies that await transformation at Christ's coming. Do you suppose that Paul thought that his body was "perfect"? Don't kid yourself. That's just but one glaring example. Anyhow, Paul encouraged his readers to "press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus". They wouldn't be "pressing" for something that they had already attained.

One more time. Humans are not perfect. We know this. We are made righteous and clean in Christs perfect love. And we have the perfect law of liberty, the tabernacle...recorded in God's true and Holy perfect scripture to cling to which keeps us straight in His perfect love.

I can't believe you guys are just dismissing all these 'perfect' quotes without even an acknowledgement that, hey...ya know....theres a case here for 'that which is perfect' has come. Of course, I understand why. This is a very edgey subject for some people who have so much invested.

Also, why do none of your quotes give the name of the book from the Bible that they were actually taken from? In my full response that I'll give later on today (I have to do some things for about the next two hours or so), I'll add the books as well to your quotes. Until then...

Boy, is it a big deal I dont include the book names? I just copy and paste straight from my PDF KJV. It's an extra job to write in the book name. You can search the verse online easy enough to find the book no?

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

So Paul said in many ways that we are made perfect in Christ and then he turned around and in the same breath said when "THAT WHICH IS PERFECT IS COME".

So he says we're perfect and then he takes it back!

ORRRrrrrrrrrrr, "that which is perfect" is referring not to US but THAT (something besides "us")

Weak. The righteousnes of Christ is that which is perfect. WE are not perfect obviously. We are fallen.

Is Jesus 'THAT which' or a 'HE that'?

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Dr Strangelove: I have a few more minutes while I wait for my wife to get ready, so I'll quickly address something else that you quoted (mis-).

You're still not really getting the fleshy imperfection / spiritual perfection in Christ thing are you?

We are SAVED REDEEMED (perfect) /// SINNERS (imperfect).

Perfect in the sight of the Lord. Scripture quite clearly tells us this.

Lol, if we had already attained perfection, why is Paul then saying that a glorification still awaits us

TO FORUM:

Even when we are glorified, what would we be without the Lord Jesus Christ? Nothing. It is His perfect righteousness that glorifies us. And we return all glory to Him. By the Grace of God.

1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired
in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was
believed) in that day.​

​

1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count
you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his
goodness, and the work of faith with power:

1:12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you,
and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus
Christ.​

​

 

[Ih8s8n]

His love perfects us in the sight of God, even though we are sinners.

Dr. Strangelove: Why then did Paul say the following (one of the verses that you supplied, by the way):

"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (II Corinthians 7:1)

?

In other words, why do we need to "perfect holiness IN THE FEAR OF GOD" if we're already "perfected by His love"? I have much more that I could say/ask on this topic, but I'll wait for your reply (I can pretty much guess what it will be, but I want to make sure) before commenting further.

Is Jesus 'THAT which' or a 'HE that'?

Jesus is "He that". Your point? The text in question says:

"For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." (I Corinthians 13:9-10)

Do you presently have FULL knowledge? FULL knowledge also of the future in relation to prophesy? If so, then lay it on us. If not, then why would you seek to claim that "that which is perfect is come"? In other words, prophesy and partial knowledge won't cease until "that which is perfect is come". Also, as I've already noted, we're not only given the "when" ('WHEN that which is perfect is come"), but we're also given the "then" which signifies exactly "when" this will be. Here it is, again:

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; BUT THEN FACE TO FACE: now I know in part; BUT THEN SHALL I KNOW EVEN AS ALSO I AM KNOWN." (I Corinthians 13:12)

Have you seen Jesus "face to face"? Do you know Jesus "even as also you are known"? Don't kid yourself (you're not kidding any of us)...you don't. And, before you try to spiritualize it, remember that Paul, if anyone, could actually claim such things much more than either you or I could. He not only had an encounter with the risen Christ on the road to Damascus, but he was also caught up to the third heaven at one point in his life. Even with such encounters, Paul still put this "face to face knowing as he also is known" IN THE FUTURE. Your refusal to admit such changes nothing. Would you have us to believe that when the Bible was totally compiled, THEN Paul suddenly knew Christ "face to face" or suddenly "knew even as he was known". It's ridiculous. Anyhow, please answer my question that I opened with and then I'll not only comment further, but also address some of your other "quotes". Thanks.

Take care.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Dr. Strangelove: Why then did Paul say the following (one of the verses that you supplied, by the way):

"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (II Corinthians 7:1)

?

In other words, why do we need to "perfect holiness IN THE FEAR OF GOD" if we're already "perfected by His love"? I have much more that I could say/ask on this topic, but I'll wait for your reply (I can pretty much guess what it will be, but I want to make sure) before commenting further.

Well, we know for a fact that nothing we can do can increase our holiness. It is fully imputed to us by Grace through faith. So 'perfecting holiness in the fear of God' obviously means the initial growing up to perfect holiness by faith, a fruit of which would be cleansing ourselves from unclean things.

Unless you think we can somehow perfect our holiness with our works?

Jesus is "He that". Your point? The text in question says:

My point was, do you think Jesus is 'that which is perfect'? If so, why isn't he referred to as 'He that is perfect'?

Do you presently have FULL knowledge? FULL knowledge also of the future in relation to prophesy? If so, then lay it on us. If not, then why would you seek to claim that "that which is perfect is come"? In other words, prophesy and partial knowledge won't cease until "that which is perfect is come". Also, as I've already noted, we're not only given the "when" ('WHEN that which is perfect is come"), but we're also given the "then" which signifies exactly "when" this will be.

Yes we have all the knowledge that we need. It's complete. It's scripture. Some may not understand that knowledge fully yet (Revelation and other prophecy) but it's there. Unless you have more to add maybe? What are your guys in church prophesying this week buddy? Any nuggets?

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; BUT THEN FACE TO FACE: now I know in part; BUT THEN SHALL I KNOW EVEN AS ALSO I AM KNOWN." (I Corinthians 13:12)

Have you seen Jesus "face to face"? Do you know Jesus "even as also you are known"? Don't kid yourself (you're not kidding any of us)...you don't.

And, before you try to spiritualize it, remember that Paul, if anyone, could actually claim such things much more than either you or I could. He not only had an encounter with the risen Christ on the road to Damascus, but he was also caught up to the third heaven at one point in his life. Even with such encounters, Paul still put this "face to face knowing as he also is known" IN THE FUTURE. Your refusal to admit such changes nothing. Would you have us to believe that when the Bible was totally compiled, THEN Paul suddenly knew Christ "face to face" or suddenly "knew even as he was known". It's ridiculous. Anyhow, please answer my question that I opened with and then I'll not only comment further, but also address some of your other "quotes". Thanks.

He's not talking about meeting Jesus face to face. Lolz. He's comparing seeing something obscured, with seeing something clearly right in front of you. He's talking about the Corinthians obviously. In the previous verse he talks about already reaching the full point in his walk. Everything is in PAST tense:

13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I
thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish
things.​

He's fully grown and has put away the childish things, which are the gifts that are not needed anymore.

 

[Ih8s8n]

Well, we know for a fact that nothing we can do can increase our holiness. It is fully imputed to us by Grace through faith.

Dr.Strangelove: Yet, there is plenty that we can do to decrease it.

"Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy, for I am holy." (I Peter 1:13-16)

Christians need to guard themselves against "fashioning themselves to the former lusts". Such "fashioning" definitely decreases ones "holiness" in God's sight. If not, then why such admonitions/exhortations as this in scripture:

"And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our own profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed. Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled, Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears." (Hebrews 12:5-17)

?

God chastens us "that we might be partakers of His holiness". We basically have two options when such chastening comes upon us:

1. "Let it be healed". In other words, we need to repent of whatever it is that God is showing us to be wrong. This "yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby".

2. "Be turned out of the way". Do I need to tell you what that means? Christians are instructed to "follow...holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord". Christians are also exhorted to "Look diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God". What do you suppose that means? It means just what it says. Esau sold his birthright "for one morsel of meat". We can do the same.

So 'perfecting holiness in the fear of God' obviously means the initial growing up to perfect holiness by faith, a fruit of which would be cleansing ourselves from unclean things.

"The INITIAL growing up to perfect holiness by faith"? You've got to be kidding. IN CONTEXT, Paul was clearly rebuking the Corinthians for a whole host of things that they might repent.

"Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter." (II Corinthians 7:9-11)

Don't like this fact? It's still a fact, nonetheless.

Unless you think we can somehow perfect our holiness with our works?

"And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: FOR I HAVE NOT FOUND THY WORKS PERFECT BEFORE GOD. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, AND REPENT. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." (Revelation 3:1-6)

That was JESUS speaking. He found people IN THE CHURCH whose "works were not perfect before God". What did He tell them? What YOU suggested the other day?

Perfect in the sight of the Lord.

Scripture quite clearly tells us this.

"Perfect in the sight of the Lord"? "Perfect in the sight of the Lord"? He just threatened those IN THE CHURCH, those who had "defiled their garments", with having their names blotted out of the book of life. He also threatened to come upon them as a thief in the night if they didn't REPENT. As far as the importance of works is concerned, did you ever notice what the first thing is that Jesus said to ALL of the seven CHURCHES in Revelation? I did.

"And unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven candlesticks; I KNOW THY WORKS..." (Revelation 2:1-2)

"And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; I KNOW THY WORKS..." (Revelation 2:8-9)

"And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges; I KNOW THY WORKS..." (Revelation 2:12-13)

"And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; I KNOW THY WORKS..." (Revelation 2:18-19)

"And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I KNOW THY WORKS..." (Revelation 3:1)

"And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth, and shutteth, and no man openeth; I KNOW THY WORKS..." (Revelation 3:7-8)

"And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I KNOW THY WORKS..." (Revelation 3:14-15)

Got it? Good.

My point was, do you think Jesus is 'that which is perfect'? If so, why isn't he referred to as 'He that is perfect'?

No, I don't think that Jesus is "THAT which is perfect". "THAT" is referring to the coming kingdom of God of which Christ will ultimately be King. This "that" hasn't come yet, according to Paul. With such being the case, and it is the case whether you like it or not, why then do you say such things as the following:

The righteousnes of Christ is that which is perfect.

?

If "the righteousness of Christ" was truly what Paul was referring to, then he wouldn't have spoken of its "coming" in a FUTURE TENSE.

Yes we have all the knowledge that we need. It's complete. It's scripture. Some may not understand that knowledge fully yet (Revelation and other prophecy) but it's there. Unless you have more to add maybe? What are your guys in church prophesying this week buddy? Any nuggets?

Then perhaps you'd be so kind as to tell us why Paul, IN HIS VERY NEXT BREATH, went on to write:

"Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy." (I Corinthians 14:1)

?

He's not talking about meeting Jesus face to face. Lolz. He's comparing seeing something obscured, with seeing something clearly right in front of you. He's talking about the Corinthians obviously. In the previous verse he talks about already reaching the full point in his walk. Everything is in PAST tense:

13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I
thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish
things.​

He's fully grown and has put away the childish things, which are the gifts that are not needed anymore.

Yeah, riiggghhhhttttt! "He's fully grown and has put away childish things which are the gifts that are not needed anymore"?

LOL!!! (Actually, it's not funny...it's a crying shame that you believe such nonsense)

Paul went on to say:

"I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all..." (I Corinthians 14:18)

Also, everything is NOT in the "past tense" as you erroneously claim. No, it only appears that way when you continually cherry-pick certain verses OUT OF CONTEXT. For example, we read:

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. FOR NOW WE SEE THROUGH A GLASS, DARKLY; but then face to face: NOW I KNOW IN PART; but then shall I know even as also I am known." (I Corinthians 13:11-12)

In stark contrast to what you erroneously stated about Paul, Paul himself plainly stated that "NOW WE see through a glass, darkly". Paul was part of that "WE". Paul also plainly stated that "NOW I know in part". Past tense? Not even in your wildest dreams.

Well, with as much as I've said, I've still let you off easy. Scripture after scripture after scripture testifies against your position (s). Hopefully, you'll come to your senses and reconsider what it is that you actually believe.

Take care.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

It was good enough for Paul

Paul? Paul Newman maybe.

 

[Giver]

(Matthew 5:48) “Even the pagans do as much, do they not? You must therefore be perfect just as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

 

[Ih8s8n]

(Matthew 5:48) “Even the pagans do as much, do they not? You must therefore be perfect just as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

Giver: Yes, and...? I don't think that anyone is denying this. I'm not, anyway. What we're really addressing and what the OP originally had in mind (I don't want to put words in her mouth...she can correct me if I'm wrong) is the erroneous view that "when that which is perfect is come" has to do with the Bible being completed. There are many who teach this and consequently add that spiritual gifts are no longer for today. THIS is the issue here...unless I've greatly missed the OP's intent. Just as an FYI.

 

[sunlover1]

Giver: Yes, and...? I don't think that anyone is denying this. I'm not, anyway. What we're really addressing and what the OP originally had in mind (I don't want to put words in her mouth...she can correct me if I'm wrong) is the erroneous view that "when that which is perfect is come" has to do with the Bible being completed. There are many who teach this and consequently add that spiritual gifts are no longer for today. THIS is the issue here...unless I've greatly missed the OP's intent. Just as an FYI.

Right on the money.

 

[Ih8s8n]

Right on the money.

sunlover1: I thought so, but thanks for the confirmation.

 

[Giver]

Giver: Yes, and...? I don't think that anyone is denying this. I'm not, anyway. What we're really addressing and what the OP originally had in mind (I don't want to put words in her mouth...she can correct me if I'm wrong) is the erroneous view that "when that which is perfect is come" has to do with the Bible being completed. There are many who teach this and consequently add that spiritual gifts are no longer for today. THIS is the issue here...unless I've greatly missed the OP's intent. Just as an FYI.

I understood, but that is a teaching, which is so weak that I don’t believe it even needs to be addressed. The need to remind people that Christians are called to be perfect is my big concern.

A Christian is a temple where no sin exist.

 

[Ih8s8n]

The need to remind people that Christians are called to be perfect is my big concern.

Giver: I certainly understand and appreciate that. God bless.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Giver: Yes, and...? I don't think that anyone is denying this. I'm not, anyway.

Ok so what are we debating about then? No need to dissect another one of you're posts Ih. We are spiritually perfect in front of God. You admit it. Thank you,,,,finally.

That which is perfect has come.

[/thread]

 

[Big Drew]

Ok so what are we debating about then? No need to dissect another one of you're posts Ih. We are spiritually perfect in front of God. You admit it. Thank you,,,,finally.

That which is perfect has come.

[/thread]

Note what was said...We are CALLED to be perfect...none of us has achieved perfection yet, and will not until we are with Christ. Even John Wesley said his term, Christian Perfection, did not mean Christians are perfect...it's about having the ability to choose to not sin...something we didn't have before God saved us...

Spiritually, we all struggle, on a daily basis...we're faced with temptation...we go through personal trials...these things test our faith, cause doubt at times...sometimes we stumble and fall into sin...I'm sorry, but that is not perfect.

And especially, in regards to the verse in the OP...that which is perfect is the second coming of Christ, and the resurrection of believers...it's easy enough to figure out by keeping with the context of 1 Corinthians.