Texas already at it?

[Cearbhall]

Lets say you are right. Since when are liberals against laws and regulations that limit behavior? The intent of many environmental laws is to prevent people from using certain types of energy. Apparently, you see no problem in the government regulating coal out of existence but don't see where the state gets the power to regulate abortion out of existence. Here is a tip for you: You give the state the power to over-regulate the things you don't like, and you give them the power to over-regulate the things you do like. So for those on the left whining about these types of regulations--too bad, you brought in on yourselves.

Um, am I supposed to find it odd that I care more about having rights to my own physical body than having the right to use coal? I don't view abortion as something that objectively harms anyone, but I do view coal as harmful.

Both sides are hypocritical in that neither truly wants bigger government or smaller government. They both want a mix. I'll give you that.

 

[lordbt]

Um, am I supposed to find it odd that I care more about having rights to my own physical body than having the right to use coal?

You have to protect all rights if you expect to have any.

I don't view abortion as something that objectively harms anyone, but I do view coal as harmful.

That's incredible.

 

[KitKatMatt]

Perhaps you should have listened. It is a ridiculous argument to say you were informed of the potential consequences of an act but when you committed the act anyway those consequences are somehow the fault of the person who informed you of them.

Who says I didn't listen? I sure as heck haven't had any sex yet... nor have I contracted an STD or become pregnant.

However, we weren't taught about dangers at all. We were taught "don't have sex". We weren't taught "because you could get pregnant or get STDs".

Our lesson was actually a few minutes long, and ran the course of "If you have sex with one person, you have sex with every person they have had sex with." The point of the lesson was not to warn about pregnancy or STDs (both of which were never mentioned), but to teach us that sex is cheapened if you have sex with someone who has already had sex by saying you have had sex with ALL these people if you have sex with them.

 

[Cearbhall]

Perhaps you should have listened. It is a ridiculous argument to say you were informed of the potential consequences of an act but when you committed the act anyway those consequences are somehow the fault of the person who informed you of them.

I don't think anyone blames the embryo for existing. That would indeed be ridiculous.

 

[Sistrin]

Who says I didn't listen? I sure as heck haven't had any sex yet... nor have I contracted an STD or become pregnant.

That is good. But by your own admission others in your peer group did.

However, we weren't taught about dangers at all. We were taught "don't have sex". We weren't taught "because you could get pregnant or get STDs".

I find that a bit hard to accept that in a sex-ed class no one listed what the potential consequences were or that no one asked. However, as for abstinence, tell me KitKat, what is the most effective means to prevent not getting arrested for driving while under the influence of alcohol?

And please spare us all the lame response we are not talking about driving while under the influence of alcohol. We are talking about preventing a consequence.

Our lesson was actually a few minutes long, and ran the course of "If you have sex with one person, you have sex with every person they have had sex with."

If I recall correctly this aspect of sexual relations was first brought to the fore back in the 1980's. I just got home from a marathon paint-ball session with my son so I am to tired to research it, but as I remember it wasn't quite as literal as articulated.

I don't think anyone blames the embryo for existing. That would indeed be ridiculous.

Nor did I say anyone did.

Thanks, people love me here.

I wouldn't say I love you, but I do appreciate the rep.

 

[KitKatMatt]

That is good. But by your own admission others in your peer group did.

I don't know if they listened or not, or even heard the presentation. The class that we were taught in was an elective that very few people took.

I find that a bit hard to accept that in a sex-ed class no one listed what the potential consequences were or that no one asked. However, as for abstinence, tell me KitKat, what is the most effective means to prevent not getting arrested for driving while under the influence of alcohol?

We did not have a "sex-ed class" in school. We had health (which was an elective), and a few minutes of one semester was dedicated to speaking about "sex". That presentation was what I described. It was never mentioned again.

Also, as I've told to someone else on this thread, I support teaching that abstinence is the only 100% sure way to avoid STDs and pregnancy- BUT I do not support abstinence ONLY education. I support teaching abstinence alongside comprehensive sex ed and safe sex practices.

Simply because, if someone chooses to "risk it" and have sex, I'd rather them know how to protect themselves. That way at least the chance of STD transmission or unwanted pregnancy drops considerably, although it's not totally gone.

If I recall correctly this aspect of sexual relations was first brought to the fore back in the 1980's.

I'm not really sure what this part means? Care to explain when you rest from your paintball?

 

[Cearbhall]

Nor did I say anyone did.

Ah yes, sorry, I guess I went over the last part too quickly.

I find that a bit hard to accept that in a sex-ed class no one listed what the potential consequences were or that no one asked.

That's exactly what abstinence-only education often is. That's the whole problem.

 

[George95]

MOD HAT ON


After discussion among the moderation staff, this thread has been moved to Ethics and Morality.


MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Lethe]

GREAT NEWS! DICK CHENEY WITH HIS ROTARY PUMP HEART, IS NOW NOT A LEGAL PERSON!

Time to go duck hunting with Cheney.

 

[TLK Valentine]

GREAT NEWS! DICK CHENEY WITH HIS ROTARY PUMP HEART, IS NOW NOT A LEGAL PERSON!

Obi-Wan: He's more machine now than man. His mind is twisted and evil. 【HD】 - YouTube

 

[quatona]

Access to birth control pills will release the rate of abortion? That's just gonna give teens the confidence to have sex without fear of getting pregnant and sooner or later majority of teens are gonna lose their virginity during early high school. Yea abortion rates are gonna go down but man, that's gonna give teens a whole new hobby.

You make it sound like having a hobby is a bad thing.

Your post also confirms my suspicion that there´s (often) a completely different motive behind the "pro-life" position.

 

[jilfe]

If the educational field would ONLY teach abstinance, as the BIBLICAL law, pertaining to sex before marriage, then when the kids do get older, they will have this ingrained in them, but it needs to be taught wholeheartedly, with no alternatives, and the kids need to learn this from a very young age, where they are not as influenced by the world.
Until it becomes a moral law, in there own minds.

 

[TLK Valentine]

If the educational field would ONLY teach abstinance, as the BIBLICAL law, pertaining to sex before marriage, then when the kids do get older, they will have this ingrained in them, but it needs to be taught wholeheartedly, with no alternatives, and the kids need to learn this from a very young age, where they are not as influenced by the world.

And those states which altready do this have some of the highest rates of teen pregnancy -- it's not working.

Until it becomes a moral law, in there own minds.

You mean "their"; if our schools' grammar lessons don't always take, what makes you think the abstinence ones will?

 

[Cearbhall]

Access to birth control pills will release the rate of abortion? That's just gonna give teens the confidence to have sex without fear of getting pregnant and sooner or later majority of teens are gonna lose their virginity during early high school. Yea abortion rates are gonna go down but man, that's gonna give teens a whole new hobby.

Your reason for decreasing access to birth control pills is that you think one of the unintended consequences is immoral? That's like decreasing access to sunscreen because you think it's immoral to wear skimpy clothing.

 

[Skaloop]

However, as for abstinence, tell me KitKat, what is the most effective means to prevent not getting arrested for driving while under the influence of alcohol?

And please spare us all the lame response we are not talking about driving while under the influence of alcohol. We are talking about preventing a consequence.

The most effective means to prevent not getting arrested for driving while under the influence of alcohol is to not drive under the influence of alcohol. It is not to never drive at all.

Unless you are saying nobody should drive.

 

[christianmomof3]

Your reason for decreasing access to birth control pills is that you think one of the unintended consequences is immoral? That's like decreasing access to sunscreen because you think it's immoral to wear skimpy clothing.

Yep.
I think that sex education should be offered in all schools as an ongoing program presented by the counselors or appropriately trained teachers once a month or however often is needed. Parents would be notified and have the option to allow their children to participate or not. Those who don't participate should still be in some sort of program, so as not to be left out and still be educated - perhaps anti-bullying or other social skills programs.

In elementary schools, students should be taught proper hygiene - to wash their hands after using the restroom, bathe regularly etc... and some sort of stranger danger and stay away from guns and weapons program in the early grades. At fourth or fifth grade, our schools usually have a puberty film - boys and girls separate. I think that should include a question and answer time and reminders to bathe and brush teeth regularly and to begin using deodorant as soon as it is needed (and usually it is by 5th grade or so.)

In middle school, there should be a gender separated sex ed unit teaching the basics and abstinence and there should be someone that the students can contact for further info. It is sad that should be needed in middle school, but it really is necessary.

In high school, there should also be a more detailed unit that is gender separated that goes into defining date rape. I think that whoever teaches the boys should be able to strongly discourage that and explain how horrible it really is because nowdays boys do not seem to understand that.
I think there are some date rape educational videos available although I am not sure how good they are.

The students should be taught not only the physical aspects about sex, but the emotional ones and the fact that no matter what birth control they use, pregnancy can sometimes occur. I think they should see a video showing abortion and natural childbirth as well as what sexually transmitted diseases they could catch.

Otherwise, they do not really understand.
As far as access to free birth control - pills must be monitored by a doctor - there are side effects and not all people respond well to them. There are other forms of birth control that could be given without prescription and doctor's monitoring though. That is up to the individuals.

It is proven that sex education and free birth control does reduce abortions. If that is one's goal, that is the way to go.

 

[Cearbhall]

The most effective means to prevent not getting arrested for driving while under the influence of alcohol is to not drive under the influence of alcohol. It is not to never drive at all.

Unless you are saying nobody should drive.

Zing!

Exactly. The drunk driving analogy doesn't exactly work in abstinence's favor. The answer doesn't need to be abstaining from alcohol or driving (though you certainly can if you want to). The answer is to do both responsibly.

Yep.

So you have no legal argument. Only a moral one. I assume, then, that you're talking about the ethics of certain institutions (schools, families, etc.) choosing whether or not they want to distribute birth control, rather than creating legislation that bans or discourages it, which is fine. There's certainly a discussion to be had there, and this is the ethics and morality board.

 

[jilfe]

And those states which altready do this have some of the highest rates of teen pregnancy -- it's not working.

It will always work when God is invited to take full controle, every one of those failures occured because people didn't invite God to take full controle of the teaching of abstinence, they tried to teach it on mans theories, rather than on the Biblical Moral laws, when it is done God's way God will intervene.

When God intervenes supernatural things take place, that's why this has taken place in Texas, there is no way this could ever happened, outside of the supernatural power of God to come to our Nations rescue, that's why this abortion bill can become even more stricter outside of mans attempt to try to water it down, because it has been prophesied many times now that God is supernaturally taking America back to Himself, and no one can stop what He wants to do in this.

When God speaks, everybody listens, wether they want to or not, from the lowest of mans position to the highest human authority in the land, no one can falter Gods move on our Nation, because it is by His Spirit that these things are now taking place, again that has been prophesied many years, that the Spirit of God will take hold of our nation's leaders and now it has been manifested in Texas, this shows evidence that God's Holy Spirit is bringing awakening and revival back to America.

So lets rejoice, that God is showing up in America in supernatural ways now.

 

[Cearbhall]

It will always work when God is invited to take full controle, every one of those failures occured because people didn't invite God to take full controle of the teaching of abstinence, they tried to teach it on mans theories, rather than on the Biblical Moral laws, when it is done God's way God will intervene.

Well yeah, we're talking about public schools. Though I would disagree anyway. I'm atheist but I haven't had sex yet because I don't want to pay for birth control, among other reasons.

 

[Maren]

It will always work when God is invited to take full controle, every one of those failures occured because people didn't invite God to take full controle of the teaching of abstinence, they tried to teach it on mans theories, rather than on the Biblical Moral laws, when it is done God's way God will intervene.

When God intervenes supernatural things take place, that's why this has taken place in Texas, there is no way this could ever happened, outside of the supernatural power of God to come to our Nations rescue, that's why this abortion bill can become even more stricter outside of mans attempt to try to water it down, because it has been prophesied many times now that God is supernaturally taking America back to Himself, and no one can stop what He wants to do in this.

When God speaks, everybody listens, wether they want to or not, from the lowest of mans position to the highest human authority in the land, no one can falter Gods move on our Nation, because it is by His Spirit that these things are now taking place, again that has been prophesied many years, that the Spirit of God will take hold of our nation's leaders and now it has been manifested in Texas, this shows evidence that God's Holy Spirit is bringing awakening and revival back to America.

So lets rejoice, that God is showing up in America in supernatural ways now.

Not quite sure what you are talking about here, since Texas has the 4th highest teen pregnancy rate. And whose "God" are you going to teach in the public schools? Would you be happy if it was Catholicism? What about if the teacher is Mormon? Which merely points out, again, why this will not work in a public school setting.