Terrorists

[Tolworth John]

The guy that did it was concerned about keeping America Christian and White....

How seriously do Christians take the risk of extremism and this sort of modern 'Crusader' mentality from within it's own ranks.

There is a big difference between organisations that promote violence and terror and the actions of individuals.
Would you accept that someone who acts against the teachings of their beliefs to be a follower of that belief?

What is your opinion of :-
Ashin Wirathu: The Buddhist bin Laden
see Ashin Wirathu: The Buddhist bin Laden

Yes there are individauls who say they want to promote Christianity and they kill those they assume are not 'christian', are there acts Christian?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Yes, but the point is that Christian extremism is barely mentioned and that may be a problem.

Hmm. Depends on the type of media, you are probably correct. I can barely stomach far right media , way too unkind and conspiratorial for me. Left media does occasionally highlight Christian extremism but its blanketed in nationalism most of the time. So as a Christian, I uses extream discernment skills when approaching and analyzing these groups.

On a personal note...

My sister is a Christian extremist and she scares me with her Facbook posts. I am waiting for the day that she realizes she has forgotten her first Love, Jesus Christ of Nazareth and find Him again.

 

[aiki]

I saw a thing online about another one of those mass shootings at a store where 10 people were killed.
The guy that did it was concerned about keeping America Christian and White....

How seriously do Christians take the risk of extremism and this sort of modern 'Crusader' mentality from within it's own ranks.
It seems to me Christian terrorism is often seen as a one-off, but there seems to be an upwards trend in this kind of extremist thinking, and unfortunately, violent acts.

*Are Christians taking this seriously and taking enough steps about this sort of thing?
Are we too trusting of Christians?
Do Christians take enough responsibility for their fellow Christians behaviour?

Your credulity in regards to this story does you no credit. It is patently obvious that there is nothing Christian about murdering people in a mass shooting. Simply claiming that one is "Christian" does not make one so - especially when one mass-murders people. Such an evil action plainly and directly contravenes basic Christian doctrine, belying the person's claim to be acting on behalf of Christian interests, or as a Christian. Likewise, the description of a person as a "Christian terrorist" is ridiculous, the description being a blatant contradiction in terms. There is no place in Christian belief and practice for terrorism. Full stop. It is not, then, Christian "extremism" when a person claiming to champion the cause of Christianity murders folks en masse. It is simple violence, common evil, having nothing whatever to do with Christian belief or practice.

Your questions are actually deeply offensive and encourage the very sort of prejudicial thinking that motivated the mass shooter. Certainly, your "Are we too trusting of Christians?" question suggests that Christians are somehow uniquely dangerous, especially worthy of suspicion as a group, as though a mass shooter claiming association with Christianity is representative of all Christians everywhere, all of them fundamentally inclined to the same sort of thing. This tribalist thinking about Christians is common to the racist who treats all black people as a single, homogenous group, acting so uniformly that what is true of one black person must be true of all. Yikes. The genocidal maniac, Hitler, thought along the same lines about Jews as you express in your hateful question above concerning Christians. Shame on you.

Buddhists in various parts of the world have engaged in terrible violence over the years (Sri Lankan and Burmese Buddhists being particularly violent), not centuries ago, as in the Crusades, but many times in the last hundred years. Are you taking responsibility, as a fellow Buddhist, for their violence? Ought we to blame you for what your fellow Buddhists have done? Ought we to think that, since other Buddhists have killed people - even each other - that all Buddhists everywhere - including you - are disposed to the same evil behaviour?

I am not responsible for another person's wickedness, only my own. We will all stand before God as individuals at the Final Judgment, giving account only for our own living, not that of the next person. Certainly, Christians ought to speak out against so-called "Christians" mass-murdering people in the name of Christianity, pointing out how obviously and completely such behavior stands in contradiction to basic orthodox Christian belief. But one Christian bears no personal responsibility for the immoral actions of another any more than you bear responsibility for another Buddhist murdering a Muslim in Myanmar.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

Are you taking responsibility, as a fellow Buddhist, for their violence?

I can and do condemn that violence and say that it is not in line with the practice of Buddhism.
That being said, the people doing Buddhist Terrorism identify as Buddhists and they think they are doing right.
They aren't, but that is what THEY believe.
Some are saying the phrase Christian terrorist is offensive, but have used the phrase Muslim terrorist... That's also offensive, but don't have double standards.

How should a Christian respond to Christian terrorists?

 

[Tellyontellyon]

My sister is a Christian extremist and she scares me with her Facbook posts. I am waiting for the day that she realizes she has forgotten her first Love, Jesus Christ of Nazareth and find Him again.

Prayers for you

 

[Tolworth John]

I can and do condemn that violence and say that it is not in line with the practice of Buddhism.
That being said, the people doing Buddhist Terrorism identify as Buddhists and they think they are doing right.
They aren't, but that is what THEY believe.
Some are saying the phrase Christian terrorist is offensive, but have used the phrase Muslim terrorist... That's also offensive, but don't have double standards.

You acknowledge that violence is not part of buddhism, but do you acknowledge that violence is not part of Christian teachings as sen in Jesus?

As for muslim terrorist, violence is part of islam, they are acting in accordance with there relgeon, unlike christian or buddhist terrorists.

 

[aiki]

Some are saying the phrase Christian terrorist is offensive, but have used the phrase Muslim terrorist... That's also offensive, but don't have double standards.

What others are doing in no way justifies your offensive insinuations about Christians. You can't excuse your rotten use of labeling by way of others doing so.

The Q'uran plainly calls for jihad. There are types of jihad, yes, and one of them, as Muslims have frequently demonstrated both in the past and today, is that killing the non-believer is right and good. There is no equivalent teaching in the New Testament. By its own doctrines, murder of the infidel is a mainstream practice of Islam. Go to an all-Muslim country and watch what happens to any Muslim who tries to leave the religion. Their imprisonment and death are the normal result, in keeping with both Q'uranic and Hadith teaching.

This is not the case in any "Christian" country. It is, then, an utterly false equivalency to make the "Christian terrorist" parallel to a Muslim one.

How should a Christian respond to Christian terrorists

I've already answered this in my last post.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

but do you acknowledge that violence is not part of Christian teachings as sen in Jesus?

I see non-violence in the teachings of Jesus, but I don't see non-violence in organised Christianity. It has a history of violence and oppression.

The rules around how to conduct warfare in Islam are very strict and limited, it doesn't support terrorism at all... But there are people who will twist Islam, twist Buddhism, and twist Christianity.

Let's not pretend it doesn't happen or get into some technical argument about whether they are really followers of those religions.... It is the responsibility of rightly guided religious followers to educate the misguided....
.... but simply saying that they aren't really Christians or Muslims or Buddhists or whatever is just an abdication.... Trying to say it has nothing to do with us... Pontus Pilate style.

 

[Sketcher]

I saw a thing online about another one of those mass shootings at a store where 10 people were killed.
The guy that did it was concerned about keeping America Christian and White....

How seriously do Christians take the risk of extremism and this sort of modern 'Crusader' mentality from within it's own ranks.
It seems to me Christian terrorism is often seen as a one-off, but there seems to be an upwards trend in this kind of extremist thinking, and unfortunately, violent acts.

*Are Christians taking this seriously and taking enough steps about this sort of thing?
Are we too trusting of Christians?
Do Christians take enough responsibility for their fellow Christians behaviour?

The hard part with dealing with people like him is that by the time he's an actual risk to people, it's already too late to reason with him.

Also, he denied being a Christian explicitly. Not in a "I'm Christian, but I'm going to kill these people" way, but he flat-out denied looking to God for salvation, confessing sins to him, or the existence of an afterlife. He says he's not Christian, he denies cardinal Christian beliefs, he committed very un-Christlike actions. It would be dishonest to call him Christian, or to associate the Christian faith with what he did.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

The hard part with dealing with people like him is that by the time he's an actual risk to people, it's already too late to reason with him.

Also, he denied being a Christian explicitly. Not in a "I'm Christian, but I'm going to kill these people" way, but he flat-out denied looking to God for salvation, confessing sins to him, or the existence of an afterlife. He says he's not Christian, he denies cardinal Christian beliefs, he committed very un-Christlike actions. It would be dishonest to call him Christian, or to associate the Christian faith with what he did.

I'm going by what I read and saw reported on TV... but even if that is there case, I only mentioned that individual as an example... My point was more general about Christians with extreme or distorted understanding, who resort to violence as being a section that is downplayed or being something that genuine Christians can feel is nothing to do with them.
But it seems to me that if some of these terrorists and extremists believe that they are doing God's work, then they are more likely to listen to a Christian, rather than a Jew, Muslim, or Buddhist. Therefore Christians have s particular responsibility to talk about this and put people on the right track.

 

[ByAnyOtherName]

But it seems to me that if some of these terrorists and extremists believe that they are doing God's work, then they are more likely to listen to a Christian, rather than a Jew, Muslim, or Buddhist.

Do you have statistics that inform this belief? If not, where do you think your assumption comes from? Are you talking about regional violence or global? I have been unable to find statistics suggesting that Christians are more likely to commit acts of violence than members of other belief systems. It would be particularly odd considering the teachings of Jesus, which taught pacifism. I would like to see the data that informs your view.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

Do you have statistics that inform this belief? If not, where do you think your assumption comes from? Are you talking about regional violence or global? I have been unable to find statistics suggesting that Christians are more likely to commit acts of violence than members of other belief systems. It would be particularly odd considering the teachings of Jesus, which taught pacifism. I would like to see the data that informs your view.

I don't have statistics, I said it was my feeling... Also, I never said they were more likely to be terrorists, I haven't got statistics on that either.
This isn't about numbers, it's about those Christians who do have extremist views... I'm not saying they are anything more than a minority, but they exist, and Christians need to step up and play their part in tackling this. Though some here seem to want to argue the toss about if this is even a thing.

Edit: I'm talking about all over the world.

Christian terrorism - Wikipedia

 

[Sketcher]

I'm going by what I read and saw reported on TV... but even if that is there case, I only mentioned that individual as an example...

It's in his manifesto. It's not hard to find.

My point was more general about Christians with extreme or distorted understanding, who resort to violence as being a section that is downplayed or being something that genuine Christians can feel is nothing to do with them.
But it seems to me that if some of these terrorists and extremists believe that they are doing God's work, then they are more likely to listen to a Christian, rather than a Jew, Muslim, or Buddhist. Therefore Christians have s particular responsibility to talk about this and put people on the right track.

Again, by the time someone becomes dangerous, it's too late to reason with them. It's hard enough to reason with some people who aren't dangerous.

 

[ByAnyOtherName]

I don't have statistics, I said it was my feeling... Also, I never said they were more likely to be terrorists, I haven't got statistics on that either.
This isn't about numbers, it's about those Christians who do have extremist views... I'm not saying they are anything more than a minority, but they exist, and Christians need to step up and play their part in tackling this. Though some here seem to want to argue the toss about if this is even a thing.

My mistake, I misread "they are more likely to listen to a Christian" as "they are more likely to be a Christian". Sincere apologies.

I am not, strictly speaking, a Christian, although I am a believer in the divinity of Jesus and the Gospels. However, in my experience, Christians are more likely to give to humanitarian aid, support the homeless, or otherwise be good members of their communities than almost any other group I've come across on the whole, at least in the USA. If you go into a Church on any given day, you will hear sermons on forgiveness, humility, and, of course, turning the other cheek: considering those who hate and distrust you as your dearest friends, treating them the way you would like to be treated, not the way they treat you. As such, I would say Christians are doing a great job on the whole of preventing violence just by reflecting on the teachings of Christ. I'm not sure what more can be asked.

Looking through some of the other replies, it would seem to me that the general view is that Christians are not more likely to commit acts of violence than any other group, political, atheist, religious or otherwise, so it seems odd to ask them to do more than what they are already doing. Their goal is peace. They seek to increase the bonds of love and brotherhood. I would rather confront groups that don't consider violence a problem and ask them what they're doing to stem the tide of hate. I would also like to talk to more people about how we can improve mental health support to prevent the kinds of tragedies that are tied to messages tribalism and otherness and the effect those messages have on the mentally susceptible.

 

[All Englands Skies]

Yes, but the point is that Christian extremism is barely mentioned and that may be a problem.

That is blatantly untrue, Christians are portrayed as the most hateful, bigoted, right wing fanatics in most avenues, its the direct opposite to what you are saying.

 

[Chesterton]

If you want to know the truth, at least read the article I posted before asking for the information that I had already given you.

I read it, including the seventh paragraph where it's admitted that the article is being written "Without knowing Gendron’s faith background,..."

Now.... Why so quick to try to dismiss his Christian agenda? Are you part of the problem? Is your 'quick to deflect' attitude providing a safe space for terrorists to spread their agenda unchecked?

Is your agenda the Buddhist agenda - to slander people of other religions?

 

[aiki]

I see non-violence in the teachings of Jesus, but I don't see non-violence in organised Christianity. It has a history of violence and oppression.

Where is all this "violence" within Christianity, this "Christian terrorism," you assert exists? Where is the history of Christian violence and oppression? There are plenty of evil people doing evil things under the banner of Christianity but they are no more enacting Christian beliefs and values when they do than a man yanking peoples' teeth for five bucks in a back alley with a pair of rusty pliers is the dentist he claims to be. Claiming the label of Christian doesn't make you one. If I stand in a hospital wearing surgical scrubs and stethoscope, can I claim to be a surgeon? No. There's a whole lot more to being a surgeon than looking the part and making the claim of being one. So, too, for the person who claims to be a Christian.

Any instance of oppression or violence enacted by a person claiming to be a Christian belies their claim. Jesus' command to "Love your enemies. Do good to them who despitefully use you," disqualifies any who claim they are acting as a "little Christ," a Christian, when their deeds defy this command.

So, you can point to the Crusades, or the Inquisition of many centuries ago, as "Christian violence" but there was nothing of Christ, of Christian living, in such things - or in any instance of similar things you might put forward as alternative examples.

But there are people who will twist Islam, twist Buddhism, and twist Christianity.

Just as you are doing in this thread.

. but simply saying that they aren't really Christians or Muslims or Buddhists or whatever is just an abdication.... Trying to say it has nothing to do with us... Pontus Pilate style.

Hardly. The Bible, the fundamental source of Christian belief and practice for 2000 years, is very clear about who is and isn't a Christian. And any person mass murdering person is, according to Scripture, not a disciple of Christ.

Saying so doesn't mean the Christian has no obligation to censure the mass murderer. But they are in no way obliged to accept the claim of such a person to being a Christian as fact. Quite the opposite. Not so the Muslim. Or the Buddhist, apparently.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

Stop being so paranoid for goodness sake.

By Christian I mean somebody who self identifies as a Christian... Saying they aren't really Christian is hardly the point...
Some of you are missing the point unfortunately..
Too wrapped up in being defensive and taking offense to hear what I'm saying.
That is a real shame.

I'm not attacking Christianity, I'm saying Christians should be concerned about this and accept that these extremists think that what they are doing they do for You... So You have an important role to play in doing something about it...
... Rather than coming up with various rationalisations to say why it's nothing to do with you, or there's nothing that can be done.

 

[Tolworth John]

don't see non-violence in organised Christianity. It has a history of violence and oppression.

Yes there is a history of violence and warfare, but is a nation with a christian heritage being violent because it is Christian or violent for so other reason.
I gave a link to Buddhist violence, organised by an acknowledged leader, supported by followers,.

This is something that is not found in the west and even when found in other parts of the world the claim of christian is more a name then anything else.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

Christianity and violence - Wikipedia