Terrorists

[aiki]

Stop being so paranoid for goodness sake.

Transferring a bit here, I think. Maybe when you stop insinuating the awful things you have about Christians, you'll get a more irenic response from them.

By Christian I mean somebody who self identifies as a Christian... Saying they aren't really Christian is hardly the point...

A Christian isn't one who "self-identifies" as one. God says who is and isn't a Christian, a disciple of Jesus, laying out the description of a "true believer" in His word, the Bible. As an actual Christian, I am not responsible for the actions of "false brethren," nominal "Christians," who adopt the label and externalities of the faith, but whose lives remain essentially untouched by their association with the faith.

Too wrapped up in being defensive and taking offense to hear what I'm saying.
That is a real shame.

We've taken the offense you've given. Really, though, I'm not particularly offended by your remarks, only unwilling to let them pass unremarked and unchallenged. You, however, seem to want to stab at Christians with impunity and then protest when they don't take your thrusts and jabs in silence, calling them defensive. Sheesh. What do we call people who accuse others of the very things of which they are guilty?

I'm not attacking Christianity, I'm saying Christians should be concerned about this and accept that these extremists think that what they are doing they do for You... So You have an important role to play in doing something about it...

You went a lot farther than this in your comments:

"Are we too trusting of Christians?"

What's the alternative to trusting Christians? Suspicion? Mistrust? Fear? Loathing? This is how it went when the Germans decided they couldn't trust the Jews. And then the Germans were killing Jews in gas chambers.

As has been said, Christians ought to censure and reject those who claim the title of Christian but live like the devil, as the Bible teaches them to do. But beyond this, Christians have no obligation to deal with the false brethren. What would you have them do, exactly? Hunt down and imprison the mass murderer claiming association to the faith? Execute him, maybe? What's an appropriate response in your mind?

... Rather than coming up with various rationalisations to say why it's nothing to do with you, or there's nothing that can be done.

I simply rejected the underlying premise of your remarks and questions: All who claim membership in the Christian faith are actually Christians.

I've explained what Christians ought to do in response to someone claiming a false relationship to the Christian faith. And they have in regards to the most recent mass shooter.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

A Christian isn't one who "self-identifies" as one.

This is where we are going wrong... I'm stating my point on the basis of the definition I'm using.
You can argue about whether that person deserves the label Christian, but that is the definition I'm using. What's important is that THEY consider themselves Christians... That is the point I'm making.

 

[grasping the after wind]

This is where we are going wrong... I'm stating my point on the basis of the definition I'm using.
You can argue about whether that person deserves the label Christian, but that is the definition I'm using. What's important is that THEY consider themselves Christians... That is the point I'm making.

There is no evidence to suggest the shooter considered himself a Christian.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

There is no evidence to suggest the shooter considered himself a Christian.

I only gave that as an example, I'm talking about the broader sense worldwide...

If you want another example, well how about the KKK... They have targeted atheists. Or what about fundamentalists who target abortion clinics etc. etc.

Anti-abortion violence - Wikipedia

 

[aiki]

This is where we are going wrong... I'm stating my point on the basis of the definition I'm using.
You can argue about whether that person deserves the label Christian, but that is the definition I'm using. What's important is that THEY consider themselves Christians... That is the point I'm making.

Well, I don't agree - especially when these self-identifying "Christians" act in gross contravention of fundamental, orthodox Christian beliefs and ethics. Why should I assume any responsibility for their entirely unChristian actions and statements?

 

[Tellyontellyon]

Why should I assume any responsibility for their entirely unChristian actions and statements?

Because THEY think they are Christians, and the more true Christian voices that are heard on this the better. Some won't listen, but some will. And they might listen to you a little more than they listen to me.
Lord knows what they would think of a Buddhist... they would see me as the enemy...
... But some might listen to you.. because they are more likely to identify with you (even if you don't identify with them)

 

[aiki]

Because THEY think they are Christians, and the more true Christian voices that are heard on this the better. Some won't listen, but some will. And they might listen to you a little more than they listen to me.
Lord knows what they would think of a Buddhist... they would see me as the enemy...
... But some might listen to you.. because they are more likely to identify with you...

We do speak out against such things. But within the communities of genuine Christian believers public censure is unnecessary, everyone already quite clear that a mass shooting (and such like) has nothing to do with being a disciple of Jesus. It's only folk outside the family of God who seem to need to hear Christians disavow "Christian terrorism." But this is because they badly misunderstand Christianity, not because orthodox Christian doctrine and ethics espouse terrorism.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

not because orthodox Christian doctrine and ethics espouse terrorism.

I didn't say otherwise...

 

[grasping the after wind]

I only gave that as an example, I'm talking about the broader sense worldwide...

If you want another example, well how about the KKK... They have targeted atheists. Or what about fundamentalists who target abortion clinics etc. etc.

Anti-abortion violence - Wikipedia

You gave an example that did not fit your narrative. You started a thread based upon an assumption which I suspect was based upon some stereotype you hold. . If you wanted to discuss the KKK or anti abortion violence you should have done that before you were called out about the disinformation you were spreading about the religious identification of the deranged young man.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

You started a thread based upon an assumption which I suspect

I picked that only as one example because of TV reports saying he was trying to defend Christianity... It was on CBS.. If it was wrong blame them... But In the OP I'm clearly talking about 'this type of thing', so your response, like many here unfortunately, is splitting hairs and bypassing the issue. It's clearly not just about this one guy..

I'm not a theologian or even a Christian. I don't make the same distinctions that people here are making. I'm not qualified. If somebody says they are a Christian, then I assume they are... So there are people out there who call themselves Christians and kill and induce fear in the name of Christianity.
Whether or not YOU think they are under your banner... THEY think they are and ONLY the real Christians have the knowledge to explain to them the difference... people who understand the real Jesus and the real Christianity...
... I can't do that, I don't know enough, so stop making theological excuses, stop getting touchy about it, stop taking it as an attack on the true religion..

Honestly, the attitudes here are making me sick. I really mean that. I've heard some really nice things about Christianity in this site... but the hair splitting and obfuscation and willful misunderstanding here on a serious issue is bizarre and making me think much less of all of you.
I'm really really disappointed in this forum and doubting my draw towards Christianity.

 

[littlestar777]

There is a big difference between organisations that promote violence and terror and the actions of individuals.
Would you accept that someone who acts against the teachings of their beliefs to be a follower of that belief?

What is your opinion of :-
Ashin Wirathu: The Buddhist bin Laden
see Ashin Wirathu: The Buddhist bin Laden

Yes there are individauls who say they want to promote Christianity and they kill those they assume are not 'christian', are there acts Christian?

Wow .. many big cities evolved to another world just in a decade or two. Sad to read all these

What i personally thought that a religion should not involve in politics n separate from it. I.e. No political talk or promotion during the Christmas party.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Radicalization is a serious problem, but sadly many Christians don't take it seriously because there is a large segment of the American Christian population that has been sold a package of lies.

These are the same sorts who continue to support Donald Trump and insist that there was no insurrection on January 6th (in spite of the evidence that we all saw on live television that day).

I don't blame the sheep who have been lied to, but the shepherds who have failed their flocks so spectacularly deserve to be called out.

The Religious Right is a swamp of antichrists.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[grasping the after wind]

Radicalization is a serious problem, but sadly many Christians don't take it seriously because there is a large segment of the American Christian population that has been sold a package of lies.

These are the same sorts who continue to support Donald Trump and insist that there was no insurrection on January 6th (in spite of the evidence that we all saw on live television that day).

I don't blame the sheep who have been lied to, but the shepherds who have failed their flocks so spectacularly deserve to be called out.

The Religious Right is a swamp of antichrists.

-CryptoLutheran

What evidence have yo0u seen that there was anything even remotely resembling an actual insurrection on Jan. th? I saw a riot that was quickly dispersed. Here is what an actual insurrection looks like.

 

[grasping the after wind]

 

[ViaCrucis]

What evidence have yo0u seen that there was anything even remotely resembling an actual insurrection on Jan. th?

If you aren't willing to call it an insurrection, then that's between you and your conscience.

-CryptoLutheran