Ten commandments valid or not. (2)

[gratefulgrace]

It is in fact love. "Don't eat unclean animals" was His command, "obey My commands" was His defenition of love. If you put two and two together here..
.So how do you explain Acts 10 and 11?

Then how do you become righteous?
Phl 3:1 Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord! It is no trouble for me to write the same things to you again, and it is a safeguard for you.
Phl 3:2 Watch out for those dogs, those men who do evil, those mutilators of the flesh.
Phl 3:3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh–
Phl 3:4 though I myself have reasons for such confidence.
If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more:
Phl 3:5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee;
Phl 3:6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for legalistic righteousness, faultless.
Phl 3:7 But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ.
Phl 3:8 What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ
Phl 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ–the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith.
Phl 3:10 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
Phl 3:11 and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.
Phl 3:12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.
Phl 3:13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,
Phl 3:14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Phl 3:15 All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.
Phl 3:16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.
Phl 3:17 Join with others in following my example, brothers, and take note of those who live according to the pattern we gave you.
Phl 3:18 For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.
Phl 3:19 Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things.
Phl 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Phl 3:21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

And further:

Rom 4:9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness.
Rom 4:10 Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before!
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.
Rom 4:12 And he is also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
Rom 4:13 It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.
Rom 4:14 For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless,
Rom 4:15 because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
Rom 4:16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring–not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.
Rom 4:17 As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.”* He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed–the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.
Rom 4:18 Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”*
Rom 4:19 Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead–since he was about a hundred years old–and that Sarah's womb was also dead.
Rom 4:20 Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God,
Rom 4:21 being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised.
Rom 4:22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.”
Rom 4:23 The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone,
Rom 4:24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness–for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.
Rom 4:25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

 

[gratefulgrace]

So you see it is the death and the resurrection of Christ Jesus that justifies us. Not the works of the Law.

 

[shadowmoses]

So you see it is the death and the resurrection of Christ Jesus that justifies us. Not the works of the Law.

perhaps?

 

[holo]

So how do you love yourself and others?

By being forgiving, for example.

Psssst... (don't tell anyone... Devine intervention...)

Are you saying Abraham had the mosaic law!?

No, He hasn't. And that's what I'm trying to point out here. I'm getting my stuff from the Bible, and you were explaining (not that you don't get your stuff from the Bible, you have some good points) that God has given you 'messages' or something to that effect. I was just saying it'd be safer to go with what was infallible, the Bible. The Holy Spirit is infallible as well, however our mind is carnal and our heart is deceitful. So, we might hink we are listening to the Holy Spirit, when we really are listening to ourselves. That's why it's safer to go with the Bible on "controversial" issues.

First of all I don't agree that the bible is infallible, and unless you're reading the original manuscripts as the original readers did, you certainly can't claim to even have an infallible bible. You probably have a version of a translation. Not only that, but as you say, our minds are carnal. So it's not so "safe to go with the bible" as people would have it

It is in fact love. "Don't eat unclean animals" was His command, "obey My commands" was His defenition of love. If you put two and two together here...

We still disagree on what he's commanded us (who the different commandments apply to, and when). Also, keeping commandments doesn't define love. Paul defines love; "love is patient, love is kind" etc.

I certainly do not live by the letter!

It seems so to me; you read the letter and decide to do what it says. Because it says so. You say yourself that you don't even need to understand WHY to do it, you just have to do it because It Is Written.

I live by the Spirit of the law. I am not a legalist in the Biblical sense. I have my faults, and I am a sinner, but so is everyone. Does that justify my sin, no. But pointing out that I sin does not change the fact that this is what the Bible says.

What does it mean to live "by the Spirit of the law"?

No, you're not a sinner. God has declared you righteous. Don't lie

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean that I am an arogant, self-righteous, Pharisee.

True. I apologize for implying that.

With your analogy, you have just refuted yourself. You parents forgave you of wrongdoing, more then your siblings. You are trying to say that there is no law, there is not sin, there is no wrong. If there is no wrong, there is no pardon from wrong.

I and my siblings were all shown grace. We all had the same rights, even I who threw away everything. Yes, I had to be forgiven more, and therefore I love them that much more. But the others didn't get any more or less than me. That's the whole point - God isn't impressed by your credentials, and he won't disown you for messing up. It's not about your history or your works, it's about who you are. You have rights because you're a citizen of the kingdom and a child of God.

No. The passage says that the "glory" of Moses' ministration of the law was to be done away, but not the law itself. Read the whole passage of 2 Corinthians 3:3-9 again, carefully. The subject is not the doing away with the law or its establishment, but rather, the change of location of the law from "tables of stone" to the "tables of the heart." Under Moses' ministration the law was on stones. Under the Holy Spirit's ministration, through Christ, the law is written upon the heart (Hebrews 8:10).

But then only the ten commandments can be written on our hearts, since those were the only ones that were written on stone. But I don't believe that anyway. If there's a law written on my heart, it's certainly not the ten commandments or any other part of the mosaic law, but rather "love your neighbour as yourself" a.k.a. the law of Christ.

Nah, doesn't matter. The New Covenant doesn't destroy the law anyway, they're the same on that issue, there is no mixing.

So what's the actual difference between the old and the new covenant?

Then how do you become righteous?

By FAITH.

I don't agree. We are sinners. There are many verses that state that, I don't need to post them.

OK, then I won't bother to post all the verses that refer to believers as "saints" either.

]No, I said God gave us the law and we didn't work. So God sent us a how-to guide.

No, the law itself IS a how-to guide. Jesus didn't come to judge us, but to save us! Jesus has SAVED YOU. He didn't merely come to instruct you so that you could be saved by the law! On the contrary, he demonstrated that you CAN'T be made righteous by the law. You CAN'T save yourself. It's Jesus who does that.

That's why I say it sounds like you don't actually know the gospel, you've just joined a christian religion.

 

[gratefulgrace]

perhaps?

Perhaps? That is the message of scripture in fact that is the scripture.gg

 

[gratefulgrace]

Rom 4:25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.
Here it is again

 

[gratefulgrace]

shadowmoses vbmenu_register("postmenu_28318551", true); Please read the philipians and romans scriptures I posted again as it clearly states that our righteousness is imputed or counted to us by God and our faith in what Jesus did for us by his sacrificial death on the cross and his resurrection. To Obbi by the way Jesus is the only one who ever lived a sinless life under the law, he is the sinless lamb that all the previous sacrificial system ponted too.(Also see The story of Abraham and Isaac. The bible says God provides HIMSELF a lamb(ram) for the sacrifice. This points to Jesus) We will never be able to be justified under law we do not obey God for that reason, it is out of Love for our saviour and because the Holy Spirit gives us spiritual victory over sin. gg

 

[gratefulgrace]

shadowmoses vbmenu_register("postmenu_28318551", true); Please read the philipians and romans scriptures I posted again as it clearly states that our righteousness is imputed or counted to us by God and our faith in what Jesus did for us by his sacrificial death on the cross and his resurrection. To Obbi by the way Jesus is the only one who ever lived a sinless life under the law, he is the sinless lamb that all the previous sacrificial system ponted too.(Also see The story of Abraham and Isaac. The bible says God provides HIMSELF a lamb(ram) for the sacrifice. This points to Jesus) We will never be able to be justified under law we do not obey God for that reason, it is out of Love for our saviour and because the Holy Spirit gives us spiritual victory over sin. gg

 

[gratefulgrace]

Oops double post gg

 

[OObi]

Salvation doesn't come by works. Righteouness doesn't come from works. The law doesn't justify you. I know this.

However, faith without works is dead. How do you put your faith into action?

Being justified before God doesn't give us a ticket to go indulge in ourselves.

 

[gratefulgrace]

No in fact our works are an important part of the walk of faith. so important in fact that God prepared them himself for us that we would or should walk in them. TRUE FAITH = belief busy in love.

Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God–
Eph 2:9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Eph 2:11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)–
Eph 2:12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
Eph 2:15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,
Eph 2:16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.
Eph 2:17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
Eph 2:19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household,
Eph 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. (notice it doesn't say THE LAW)
Eph 2:21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
Eph 2:22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit

 

[holo]

However, faith without works is dead. How do you put your faith into action?

In various ways. By buying a bum a meal, for example, or arranging an apointment with the dentist even if I don't have the money, believing that God will supply somehow.

Being justified before God doesn't give us a ticket to go indulge in ourselves.

True. On the contrary, it enables us to do good things instead, being free from our guilt and born again.

 

[OObi]

In various ways. By buying a bum a meal, for example, or arranging an apointment with the dentist even if I don't have the money, believing that God will supply somehow.

Okay, buying a bum a meal is following God's command to love others.

But what work is a dentist appointment showing?

 

[gratefulgrace]

"Do not be anxious for anything but by everything by prayer and supplication make your requests known to God and He shall supply my need According to his riches in Christ Jesus" Don't know if I got it totally correct word for word but I think that covers temporal as well as spiritual need.

 

[gratefulgrace]

Phl 4:6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.
Phl 4:7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.


Phl 4:19 And my God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus.

 

[holo]

Okay, buying a bum a meal is following God's command to love others.

Maybe so, but I don't do it because I'm commanded to, but because I love the bum

But what work is a dentist appointment showing?

It demonstrates my faith in the Lord. Which isn't too great, btw, I tend to get nervous about things all the time. It takes practice.

 

[kw5kw]

God did not write the Ten Commandments with His own finger in stone, for you to change its meaning to fit your preferences. The fourth commandment says to "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy", and not to do any secular work on that day. God only made one day "holy" and that was the 7th day. The other days were to used for work, including in the 1st day (Sunday).
Of course God made all the other days, but He only made one Sabbath day holy, and that was the 7th day.

And you do NO work on your Sabbath?

Do you light a fire, do you turn on a light?
Do you adjust your thermostat?
Do you take a shower?
Do you prepare a meal? (Putting a piece of meat betweenst two slices of bread would be considered work.)
Do you do more than just lie on the couch and read the word of God?
Do you travel (drive) more than a Sabbath's Journey? ((This was 2,000 paces or cubits, or seven and a half furlongs - not quite one mile.))

If you can answer yes (and be honest) to any one of these questions, then you are disreguarding the Sabbath as much as anyone else.

 

[kw5kw]

AH!!! I hate the "law" and the old testament. It's so perplexing that only God can allow you to understand it, and I don't think He's going to give us 100% of the knowledge before we make it to Heaven.​

Oh, but the Old Testament tells us how we should live, and how we should worship God. The stories tell us that even though the Hebrews saw all of the miricales that Moses did, up to and including the parting of the REd Sea, that how quickly they forgot all this and longed to return to the Egyptians with the golden calf.

The OT teaches us to question God to make sure of His purpose, the stories of Gideon and Job show us this. Questioning Him is not sinning, nor is it un-rightous--it is simply making sure what is being revealed is from God. It was easy for the fleese to be wet when the ground was dry, for a fleese acts much like a sponge, but when the fleese was dry and the ground was wet...Well, that proved it was from God.

The OT teaches that we're not perfect. King David was far from perfect, but God was with him and through David's (and Bathsheba's) line the Messiah was born.

The OT teaches that Daniel, who did not falter, was kept safe from the mouth of the lions and was rewarded greatly much like Joseph.

Oh, but how great are the Psalms that teach us:
"knowing that He is my Shepherd who protects me and gives me everything that I need."

Every verse of the OT is a story rich in history, rich in theology and is there for the understanding and for the teaching; just as Paul told Timothy.

Russ

 

[Jimlarmore]

God is love there is no doubt about that. The commandments written on tables of stone are a reflection of His Character and are to guide us so we can receive a blessing. When Christ gave us His commandments He didn't change that. He said all of the law and the prophets are based on the command to love God with all our hearts souls and minds and our neighbors as ourselves. The first 4 commandments are based on our love for God, the last 6 are based on the way we should behave with our fellows.

The Bible defines sin as the transgression of the law 1 John 3:4, so sin cannot exist without the law. That means the law of God was well known without being in the written form before Sinai. Grace is unmerited favor. Favor from what? Sin. So grace and the law are inextricably tied together for without one the other is unnecessary.

God bless
Jim Larmore

 

[kw5kw]

Without the law we would not have known what sin is.
Without sin we would not have known what God's love is.

God's love gives us exemption, redemption and salvation.