Ten comandments; Intersting

[crazyfingers]

I have a Love of My God,I have a love for those who do GOOD,I respect your viewpoint and your opinion, Howver I will hold true to mine.

Fine. Just don't disrespect me by attempting to use the government to elevate your religious point of view above mine. To do so is to attempt to claim more religious freedom for yourself at the expense of others. That's wrong, immoral and an act of contempt.

American law was based on English law
english law has it's roots in the 10 Commandments.

However the 10Cs have essentially nothing to do with US law. Actually, the 1st amendment largely protects us AGAINST the first 4.


ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

To enact this into law would be unconstitutional. US law is not based on this

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

To enact this into law would be unconstitutional. US law is not based on this

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

To enact this into law would be unconstitutional. US law is not based on this

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

To enact this into law would be unconstitutional. US law is not based on this

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

To enact this into law would be unconstitutional. US law is not based on this

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

Ah, there's one.

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

Not against the law.

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

That's two.

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

Not against the law with a few exceptions such as perjury. Half a point.

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

The US economic system is based on coveting.

Sorry, 2.5 out of 10 is a failing grade.

Besides which, for the government to post the first 4 is for the government to express a prefernce for judeo-christianity and the government is denied that power.

It's laughable to claim that the 10Cs have any particular significance regarding US law.

 

[k]

American law was based on English law
english law has it's roots in the 10 Commandments.

It's ironic to realize there would not be any Americans (at least as it currently is) if those English and Europeans had not come here. English law must not have been working too well or those people would not have wanted to leave so badly.

I don't see US based on the TC because of genocide against the Native Americans (coveting, murder, stealing), at least for one example. Yes, I know it was a long time ago, but even if we trace history up to the current day the US still Covets like it's an on going Olympic sport.

I don't support displaying the TC because in my understanding of Christ he would not support it.

 

[PACKY]

Fine. Just don't disrespect me by attempting to use the government to elevate your religious point of view above mine. To do so is to attempt to claim more religious freedom for yourself at the expense of others. That's wrong, immoral and an act of contempt.

I never did attempt to disrespect yours, it is the people who do not beleive in judeo -christian values that are making a big deal of this, I would have no problem with another faith putting a symbol of their faith on public property.



However the 10Cs have essentially nothing to do with US law. Actually, the 1st amendment largely protects us AGAINST the first 4.


ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

To enact this into law would be unconstitutional. US law is not based on this

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

To enact this into law would be unconstitutional. US law is not based on this

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

To enact this into law would be unconstitutional. US law is not based on this

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

To enact this into law would be unconstitutional. US law is not based on this

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

To enact this into law would be unconstitutional. US law is not based on this

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

Ah, there's one.

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

Not against the law.

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

That's two.

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

Not against the law with a few exceptions such as perjury. Half a point.

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

The US economic system is based on coveting.

Sorry, 2.5 out of 10 is a failing grade.

Besides which, for the government to post the first 4 is for the government to express a prefernce for judeo-christianity and the government is denied that power.

It's laughable to claim that the 10Cs have any particular significance regarding US law.

I also find humor in many serious topics.

I would like to see this whole 10 commandment debate go to a public vote.
since this is a democracy and its majority rule, I think it would be great to have this on the ballot for the next presidential election and let America vote and end this on-going debate and waste of court time and costs.

 

[k]

I would like to see this whole 10 commandment debate go to a public vote.
since this is a democracy and its majority rule, I think it would be great to have this on the ballot for the next presidential election and let America vote and end this on-going debate and waste of court time and costs.

Actually, the Rule of Law is here for that exact reason. The People should not violate the Rule of Law, so for some issues, it is not wise to have a straight public election. Those who do not have Faith in the Bible should not be forced to feel as if they should. I don't ever remember Jesus forcing people to accept his message or even God.

 

[crazyfingers]

I would like to see this whole 10 commandment debate go to a public vote.
since this is a democracy and its majority rule, I think it would be great to have this on the ballot for the next presidential election and let America vote and end this on-going debate and waste of court time and costs.

Your idea of what this country is all about is badly distorted. The US is a representitive constitutional republic with a bill of rights expressly there so that people can not simply vote away the rights of the minority.

Equal freedom of religion is a constitutional right. It would be morally repugnant to hold a vote designed to diminish the freedom of religion for some while boosting it for others.

 

[PACKY]

Actually, the Rule of Law is here for that exact reason. The People should not violate the Rule of Law, so for some issues, it is not wise to have a straight public election. Those who do not have Faith in the Bible should not be forced to feel as if they should. I don't ever remember Jesus forcing people to accept his message or even God.

REGARDLES, America is a democracy and as such this should go to a popular vote with the majority rule.
No one is forcing anyone to beleive are they? I see symbols of things i dont beleive in everyday yet I am not so simple minded to think that I am being forced to belive in them, God did give us the ability to reason and free will correct?
Jesus did not force anyone to beleive he simply gave them the options, and what waits for those on the diffrent roads of life.

It is those who are fighting against the Ten commandments being in Public buildings that will end up making this go to the ballots.

 

[crazyfingers]

REGARDLES, America is a democracy and as such this should go to a popular vote with the majority rule.
No one is forcing anyone to beleive are they? I see symbols of things i dont beleive in everyday yet I am not so simple minded to think that I am being forced to belive in them, God did give us the ability to reason and free will correct?

Once again, the US is not a democracy. It is a representative constutional republic with a bill of rights to protect basic freedoms from the vote of the majority.

The issue is government endorsement of a particular religious point of view. That is unconstitutional. Questions on the constitutionality of something are not subject to popular vote.

No one has the right to vote to give some people more religious freedom than others and what you propose is to give christians the right to use government to promote their religions while denying that freedom to others.

 

[k]

REGARDLES, America is a democracy and as such this should go to a popular vote with the majority rule.
No one is forcing anyone to beleive are they? I see symbols of things i dont beleive in everyday yet I am not so simple minded to think that I am being forced to belive in them, God did give us the ability to reason and free will correct?
Jesus did not force anyone to beleive he simply gave them the options, and what waits for those on the diffrent roads of life.

It is those who are fighting against the Ten commandments being in Public buildings that will end up making this go to the ballots.

That's just it, America is NOT a democracy; never has been. Is there a link to show some evidence that the US is a democracy? Of course, there are many varying degrees of a democracy, so we could go in circles on that one. Guess what I am saying is the US is not a straight or traditional democracy.

I didn't say people are being forced to believe anything. I said they may feel that way. Many Christians do not mind the TC displays and other things Bible related, but that is only because it coincides with there personal beliefs. If there were statues of Buddha and plaques of the Qu'ran on fervent display I have a feeling more Christians would be calling for no religion on government property.

God gave us the ability for reason and free will to co-exist as peacefully as possible. The displays do more harm than good. Besides, people should know Christians by their words and actions, not a piece of marble or stone; that was Caesar's method.

 

[PACKY]

Once again, the US is not a democracy. It is a representative constutional republic with a bill of rights to protect basic freedoms from the vote of the majority.

The issue is government endorsement of a particular religious point of view. That is unconstitutional. Questions on the constitutionality of something are not subject to popular vote.

No one has the right to vote to give some people more religious freedom than others and what you propose is to give christians the right to use government to promote their religions while denying that freedom to others.

Really were not a democracy? Hmmmm....

If there is a drive to petition congress to allow the popular vote on this issue to create a federal protection and excecutive order to allow the Ten commandments in Public facilities then there is no way to stop it.
I would go so far as to petition congress to allow a vote on the creation and inclusion of a constitutional amendent that makes the 10 commandments legal in public facilities.
i would be intrested to see the vote pecentages.

 

[PACKY]

It's amzaing how many atheist's come out of the wood work whenever this topic arises.
Why is it that there is such a problem with having the ten commandments in public buildings? No one is forcing you to belive in them. What if priveta money was spent to finance these monuments would youstil take issue with them?

 

[crazyfingers]

Why is it that there is such a problem with having the ten commandments in public buildings? No one is forcing you to belive in them. What if priveta money was spent to finance these monuments would youstil take issue with them?

Because the government has no business telling me which god, if any, to worship or in any way suggesting that it thinks that I should worship the christian god. It doesn't matter if the government can't enforce it's opinion, presently or not. That is outside of it's authority and an insult.

The government has no authority to promote christianity at the expense of all other beliefs. The government has no authority to allow itself to be used by those who hold one point of view on religion while now allowing others the same freedom.

Do you think that any government in the US would allow a monument that say "Don't believe in any god. They are all myths" erected on the front lawn of the courthouse or town hall? If not. Then neither can it post messages promoting christianity. To do so is to give special rights to christians and not to others.

 

[crazyfingers]

Really were not a democracy? Hmmmm....

If there is a drive to petition congress to allow the popular vote on this issue to create a federal protection and excecutive order to allow the Ten commandments in Public facilities then there is no way to stop it.
I would go so far as to petition congress to allow a vote on the creation and inclusion of a constitutional amendent that makes the 10 commandments legal in public facilities.
i would be intrested to see the vote pecentages.

The US is a representative constitutional republic with a bill of rights.

 

[PACKY]

The US is a representative constitutional republic with a bill of rights.

The Bill of rights as well as the Constitution can be made fluid with a petition to congress to allow a popular vote and thus create a new amendment,
So yes it is a majority rule.

 

[PACKY]

Because the government has no business telling me which god, if any, to worship or in any way suggesting that it thinks that I should worship the christian god. It doesn't matter if the government can't enforce it's opinion, presently or not. That is outside of it's authority and an insult.
no is telling you which god to worship, if youre were to look at the rock carvings on the facade of the supreme court there is a scene with Mohammad
No one is saying you need to worship anything,
Is it the fact that you need to see it or even know that it is there that bothers you? I hate the color "magenta" and think that anyone who liek magenta is wrong yet simply becuase it is there or the fact that i need to see it does not mean I need to like it or that I am being force to like it.

The government has no authority to promote christianity at the expense of all other beliefs. The government has no authority to allow itself to be used by those who hold one point of view on religion while now allowing others the same freedom.
I beleive thats what you said in the first paragragh


Do you think that any government in the US would allow a monument that say "Don't believe in any god. They are all myths" erected on the front lawn of the courthouse or town hall? If not. Then neither can it post messages promoting christianity. To do so is to give special rights to christians and not to others.
I have said before that if other faiths want to put a symbol of their faith on display in a public facility then by all means do so,,I am curious what type of symbol a atheist could use? except one that would ridule the faith of others.
Atheism is the condition of being without theistic beliefs, or the disbelief in the existence of deities. In antiquity, it had allusions in Epicureanism. Atheism disappeared from any consideration among philosophers of the Greek and Roman traditions as Christianity began to have widespread influence. During the Age of Enlightenment, atheism re-emerged as an accusation against those who questioned the religious status quo, but by the late 18th century it had become the avowed position of a growing minority. By the 20th century, atheism had become the state-supported position of countries governed by communism.

It is those people who are so outspoken against the ten commandments being displayed that it will end up creating such a controversey as to cause state wide if not nation wide referendums. on the Issue. HERES HOPING

 

[k]

It's amzaing how many atheist's come out of the wood work whenever this topic arises.
Why is it that there is such a problem with having the ten commandments in public buildings? No one is forcing you to belive in them. What if priveta money was spent to finance these monuments would youstil take issue with them?

Atheists aren't the only ones who oppose promoting religion in public/government buildings. The government, in a way, is a moderator for the public, so it serves in everyone's best interest to support that neutrality.

 

[seebs]

I'm hardly an atheist, but I would still be strongly opposed.

 

[crazyfingers]

no is telling you which god to worship, if youre were to look at the rock carvings on the facade of the supreme court there is a scene with Mohammad
No one is saying you need to worship anything,

How on earth can one claim that when the government posts a list of religious edicts that one could not view that as the government saying that it endorses those edicts and thinks that everyone should follow them?

Is it the fact that you need to see it or even know that it is there that bothers you?

It is the fact that the government is expressing an opinion that all should believe those religious edicts and the government has NO RIGHT to say that. The government has no right to imply in any way that my point of view on issues of religion is wrong and that someone else is right.

I hate the color "magenta" and think that anyone who liek magenta is wrong yet simply becuase it is there or the fact that i need to see it does not mean I need to like it or that I am being force to like it.

The color red has nothing to do with equal freedom of religion for all.

I beleive thats what you said in the first paragragh

And it remains true.

I have said before that if other faiths want to put a symbol of their faith on display in a public facility then by all means do so,,I am curious what type of symbol a atheist could use?

First off, the 10Cs are not simply a symbol. They are a list of religious edicts. "Have no other God before me" is not a symbol, it's a religious command.

except one that would ridule the faith of others.

I would be perfectly happy with the Secular Humanist symbol. Or the Atom symbol that many atheists use. Neither of them put anyone else down.

However neither do I believe for a minute that the hords who demand the 10Cs remain would ever allow an atheist message to stand.

Atheism is the condition of being without theistic beliefs, or the disbelief in the existence of deities. In antiquity, it had allusions in Epicureanism. Atheism disappeared from any consideration among philosophers of the Greek and Roman traditions as Christianity began to have widespread influence. During the Age of Enlightenment, atheism re-emerged as an accusation against those who questioned the religious status quo, but by the late 18th century it had become the avowed position of a growing minority. By the 20th century, atheism had become the state-supported position of countries governed by communism.

And what does this have to do with anything? I didn't write it. Did you?

It is those people who are so outspoken against the ten commandments being displayed that it will end up creating such a controversey as to cause state wide if not nation wide referendums. on the Issue. HERES HOPING

Only one step closer to theocracy when the government holds a vote on a religious issue.

 

[PACKY]

Atheists aren't the only ones who oppose promoting religion in public/government buildings. The government, in a way, is a moderator for the public, so it serves in everyone's best interest to support that neutrality.

Then let the Public choose how the goverment will best serve them.
I honestly think that Aetheist's are afraid to see this cme to a vote and would do everything possible to stop it from taking place.

 

[PACKY]

If you feel so strongly Contact the ACLU and have them assist you in order to get a symbol of your faith or lack thereof. in public buildings.

 

[crazyfingers]

If you feel so strongly Contact the ACLU and have them assist you in order to get a symbol of your faith or lack thereof. in public buildings.

I don't believe that any religious symbols belong on government buildings.

However if the SC allows the 10Cs I will likely have to work toward getting competing messages erected. And not just symbols as the 10Cs is not a symbol but a set of religous Commandments.

An atheist or humanist symbol would not be enough. More appropriate would be a monument to the effect of:

• Faith is anti-knowledge
• Reason is the path to knowledge
• Belief must be based on evidence
• Evidence that any god or gods exist is lacking
• It is irrational to believe in any god or gods
• Shed your superstitions and embrace reality
• Reason and ethics trump religion
• Join the rational and ethical world