Temporal Salvation?

[GDL]

And you know as well as I do........That loss of salvation is an enemy of His Cross. That's why we can never over emphasize satans ace trump. RELIGION.

Oh the irony that loser believers want to use Hebrews 6 as 'proof' of losing salvation .......And Hebrews 6 is actually describing them and how the sacrifice of Christ isn't quite enough.......But their ongoing belief is. Publically shaming and crucifying Him afresh.

Your right pastor-teacher's vocabulary is well parroted.

Your eisegesis twisting the loss of salvation issue in the "enemies of the cross.." language of Phil3 is interpretive nonsense. As is your irony assessment of Heb6.

Why don't you exegete both sections of Scripture for us and explain your statements. Can you read the Text on your own & do this, or do you just rely on "doctrine" you've been taught?

And when you're done, please explain to us why the word "religion" is satanic. Begin with actually reading several English translations of James1:27, noting how many translate the Greek word as "religion" (or one of it's forms - 9 of 9 currently on my screen) & speak of it in a favorable sense. Then follow this up with reading some Greek lexicons and noting how some say this is a proper way to translate the Greek word in 1:27.

 

[TibiasDad]

No, God uses His mighty hand of discipline for a variety of reasons. You have no authority to make your baseless claims about how God uses His discipline.

I guess I have as much authority as you. And by the way, there are various ways that an act of discipline or judgement can effect others, and without a doubt others can learn from their example, but the primary reason for discipline is to teach and strengthen the individual being disciplined.

Heb 12:7Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. 9Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. 11No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

This is the primary and typical reason for God disciplining his children, as James says, "Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, a whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything." (Jas 1:2-4 )

It's amazing that discipline, scripturally speaking, is all about developing perseverance, the very thing that you deny as necessary!

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

The sinful nature resides in the physical body. That's why believers are given a NEW resurrection body, a body that cannot sin because the 'sinful nature' has been destroyed.

Matt 15:16“Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17“Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

The sinful nature is spiritual, not physical. The body is not, in itself, sinful, the belief that it is, the belief you are promoting is Gnosticism.

Doug

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"Here's a shock. Of course only PIA believers RECEIVE AND POSSESS eternal life. And that's MY point!!"

If only believers receive and possess eternal life, then a non-current believer cannot possess eternal life.

I don't understand how you keep missing the point. Since believers possess eternal life, and Jesus SAID that those He gives eternal life shall never perish, all without ANY conditions for believers to meet, even loss of faith CANNOT result in perishing.

The wording is that clear.

We must persevere in belief to possess and eventually gain eternal life.

Two errors here.

First error: NO verse says that believers must persevere to "eventually gain eternal life".

Second error: NO verse says eternal life is possess "eventually". That's just malarky.

I've given you clear verses that state unequivocally WHEN eternal life is possessed. Which is at the MOMENT one believes in Christ for savlation.

You've never even attempted to exegete John 5:24, 6:47, or 1 John 5:11 to show that eternal life ISN'T a present tense POSSESSION WHEN a person believes.

As James says, "Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him." (Jas 1:12 )

All the "crowns" mentioned in Scripture relate to reward, Doug. Not to gaining salvation.

And again, "What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?" (Jas 2:14 )

This is a sermon in itself. However, the context shows hypocrisy as the issue in ch 2. And so James is admonishing believers to have works/deeds in order to save them from being a hypocrite. And v.15,16 is a great example of a hypocrite.

Having believed alone is not enough to save

Quite frankly, this is pure heresy.

These verses tell us clearly the basis for how to have eternal life:
Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

And these verses tell us clearly how to have salvation:
Salvation:

Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

As a pastor, you should know better than to make the claim that you do.

one must obey/do the things of God, for "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead." (Jas 2:26 )

Just read the verses, Doug. They ARE Scripture.

And finally, just one of John's many such exhortations, "As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—eternal life." ( 1Jn 2:24-25 )
Doug

Are you going to argue that Scripture is contradictory now? All the verses I just gave you AGAIN show that salvation/eternal life is possessed on the basis of faith. Nothing about any kind of works.

Your views are unbiblical.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Here are the last 2 verses in the context of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5-
10 At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband.
11 Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

Of course they did, Ananias and Sapphira just went to help for seeking to exalt themselves among the church and lied directly to God about what they did.

Their discipline by death got the attention of other believers about what NOT to do.

And as we learn from the last chapter of Revelation, "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." All unrepentant liars "will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur."
Doug

So, what is it, Doug: did Jesus die for ALL sins, or just the sins not on this list?

Can't be both, if one follows the "logic" of your posts.

Since Jesus died for all sins, your application of Rev 21:8 is quite faulty.

Speaking of this list, do you see any connection between the first two items?

Maybe not, but BOTH of them speak of lack of belief. So the list applies to unbelievers; those who NEVER believed.

Remember John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12, which both say that condemnation is for those who "have not believed"? Well, Rev 21:8 is just another way to say the same thing.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"No, God uses His mighty hand of discipline for a variety of reasons. You have no authority to make your baseless claims about how God uses His discipline."

I guess I have as much authority as you.

No, actually, you don't. I speak from the truth of Scripture, whereas you speak from false doctrines.

And by the way, there are various ways that an act of discipline or judgement can effect others, and without a doubt others can learn from their example, but the primary reason for discipline is to teach and strengthen the individual being disciplined.

So what about the "primary reason"? Since you admit there are other reasons, just quit trying to put God into your own box of opinions. And you just made my point. Thanks.

Heb 12:7Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. 9Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. 11No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

This is the primary and typical reason for God disciplining his children, as James says, "Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, a whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything." (Jas 1:2-4 )

At least you have quoted the verse about God's discipline being painful. So you have no excuse for trying to minimize it.

It's amazing that discipline, scripturally speaking, is all about developing perseverance, the very thing that you deny as necessary!
Doug

Where did I ever deny that perseverance is necessary?

Here's the deal, Doug. Perseverance is NECESSARY for spiritual growth and blessings, and eternal reward.

But you falsely or ignorantly claim that perseverance is necessary for salvation.

You aren't even in the same ballpark. Or universe. Spiritually speaking.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
The sinful nature resides in the physical body. That's why believers are given a NEW resurrection body, a body that cannot sin because the 'sinful nature' has been destroyed.

Matt 15:16“Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17“Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

The sinful nature is spiritual, not physical.

And the sinful nature resides in the physical body.

The body is not, in itself, sinful, the belief that it is, the belief you are promoting is Gnosticism.
Doug

I never said the body was sinful. That is absurd. God created humans with a physical body, so you can cease these silly thoughts about what you presume I have said or believe.

The reason believers will receive a resurrection body is to be "like Christ". The resurrection body will be both physical and spiritual, just like the body Jesus had during His First Advent.

 

[TibiasDad]

I don't understand how you keep missing the point. Since believers possess eternal life, and Jesus SAID that those He gives eternal life shall never perish, all without ANY conditions for believers to meet, even loss of faith CANNOT result in perishing.

The wording is that clear.

And you make the fatal mistake of believing that just because a condition is not specifically mentioned in a particular place that that means none exist! Wrong!!
If there is ever a stated conditional element for eternal life, then that condition is assumed even if not explicitly stated.

You have been repeatedly shown a plethora of evidence that both active and continual belief, expressed as obeying the commands of Jesus and enduring the trials that ensue the carrying of his cross in faithfulness, are the conditions that are absolutely necessary for eternal life to be given and ultimately experienced. Again, only those who are believing possess the hope of eternal life. Only those who obey and persevere to the end, not shrinking back and/or denying the blood that sanctified them, will be saved!

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Maybe not, but BOTH of them speak of lack of belief. So the list applies to unbelievers; those who NEVER believed.

Remember John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12, which both say that condemnation is for those who "have not believed"? Well, Rev 21:8 is just another way to say the same thing.

And you have been shown that the Greek perfect tense does not naturally or automatically mean "never". Yes, there are some cases where this is possible, but belief is not necessarily one of them! I have never seen a Greek grammar that states that " never" is always the default intent of the negative application of the perfect tense. Again, the perfect tense says the effects a completed past action are, at the present tense point of expression, still indicatively in force. There is no necessary definition of when in the past the action was completed or initiated, only that it was before the present moment of writing. Other I formation in the context is the only means of determining the past point of time when the action was actually completed! Your "necessary" never cannot stand the scrutiny of Greek syntax, and if it could, you would have presented it long ago!

Doug

Doug

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
I don't understand how you keep missing the point. Since believers possess eternal life, and Jesus SAID that those He gives eternal life shall never perish, all without ANY conditions for believers to meet, even loss of faith CANNOT result in perishing.

The wording is that clear.

And you make the fatal mistake of believing that just because a condition is not specifically mentioned in a particular place that that means none exist! Wrong!!

This response is nothing but your bias speaking. If IF IF there were any conditions for believers to meet in order to never perish, Jesus would have been REMISS to have left the condition out.

Because, as the verse is worded, it shows that the result of BEING GIVEN the gift of eternal life, the recipient shall never perish.

Yet, you deny the very words.

If there is ever a stated conditional element for eternal life, then that condition is assumed even if not explicitly stated.

No, it is this statement of yours that is a huge assumption or presumption. You have just revealed your own extreme bias on the subject.

You so stubbornly presume a condition, EVEN THOUGH Jesus gave NONE, you see it where it DOESN'T EXIST.

No wonder your reading of Scripture is so faulty.

You have been repeatedly shown a plethora of evidence that both active and continual belief, expressed as obeying the commands of Jesus and enduring the trials that ensue the carrying of his cross in faithfulness, are the conditions that are absolutely necessary for eternal life to be given and ultimately experienced.

Once again, you've given NO VERSES that believers must meet conditions in order to have eternal life. But you MUST ignore/reject John 5:24, 6;47 and 1 John 5:11, 13 plus John 10:28 in order to think the way you do.

Again, only those who are believing possess the hope of eternal life.

You've NEVER proven this from Scripture. The truth is that the MOMENT one believes, they are given eternal life. That is plainly stated in John 5:24 and 6:47.

Only those who obey and persevere to the end, not shrinking back and/or denying the blood that sanctified them, will be saved!
Doug

That's your bias speaking again. Jesus says those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

But you also MUST believe that Jesus was AMISS when He left out the "conditions" that you keep seeing that aren't there.

No wonder you are so confused.

 

[TibiasDad]

I never said the body was sinful. That is absurd. God created humans with a physical body, so you can cease these silly thoughts about what you presume I have said or believe.

The reason believers will receive a resurrection body is to be "like Christ". The resurrection body will be both physical and spiritual, just like the body Jesus had during His First Advent.

1) Then learn how to express yourself! The spiritual nature of man is within the physical nature and moves the motivations that cause the body to act, but it is not a physical part of the body of man! It is immaterial. It is not a natural part of the physical man! The Spirit of man is sinful, and this corrupts the body, because...

2) The natural body of man is corruptible, and subject to decay! It was not created to be eternal. That is why the Tree of Life was in the garden, and why Adam and Eve were driven from the Garden away from the Tree of Life, so that they wouldn't eat of it and live physically in their sinful condition forever! (Gen 3:22)

3) We are already both Physical and Spiritual. Adam was both Physical and Spiritual! The resurrection is to change our physical nature for mortal to immortal, from perishable to imperishable. ( 1 Cor 15:42-ff )

Doug

 

[FreeGrace2]

And you have been shown that the Greek perfect tense does not naturally or automatically mean "never".

So what? The perfect tense isn't in both verses. One of the verses has the aorist indicative active. And this one SURELY DOES mean "never".

The point remains: those who "have not believed" WILL BE condemned.

There is nothing in the Bible about those who used to believe being condemned. That's only found in your head.

Yes, there are some cases where this is possible, but belief is not necessarily one of them!

So says you. Because 2 Thess 2:12 uses an aorist, it IS NECESSARILY possible.

I have never seen a Greek grammar that states that " never" is always the default intent of the negative application of the perfect tense.

Rather desperate, huh.

Again, the perfect tense says the effects a completed past action are, at the present tense point of expression, still indicatively in force. There is no necessary definition of when in the past the action was completed or initiated, only that it was before the present moment of writing.

Do you even hear what you are saying here? I AGREE!! And the point REMAINS that AS LONG AS a person "has not believed" they WILL BE condemned.

So, unless and until a person DOES believe, they "have not believed". This is not arguable. And those who have not believed will be condemned.

Again, thanks for makinig my point.

Other I formation in the context is the only means of determining the past point of time when the action was actually completed! Your "necessary" never cannot stand the scrutiny of Greek syntax, and if it could, you would have presented it long ago!

It is clear that you aren't hearing yourself.

The phrase "has not believed" can be rendered "has not believed EVER".

All of which means NEVER, up to the point of the writer's perspective, which you've already admitted to, although I suspect inadvertently.

 

[TibiasDad]

All the "crowns" mentioned in Scripture relate to reward, Doug. Not to gaining salvation.

The crown of life! That is salvation! Death is damnation, life is salvation! There is only one life! The crown of life is eternal life. There is no other type of life, period! If there is, feel free to prove it!

Doug

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"I never said the body was sinful. That is absurd. God created humans with a physical body, so you can cease these silly thoughts about what you presume I have said or believe."

1) Then learn how to express yourself!

Like I said, I never said the body was sinful. Why you presume I did say that is a mystery. Maybe you need to learn how to read with better comprehension.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
All the "crowns" mentioned in Scripture relate to reward, Doug. Not to gaining salvation.

The crown of life! That is salvation! Death is damnation, life is salvation!

Here is some help for you, to learn about the reward crowns.

What Is the Significance of Rewards and Crowns in the Bible?

https://www.breakthroughforyou.com/5-heavenly-crowns/

What are the five heavenly crowns that believers can receive in Heaven? | GotQuestions.org

Crowns in Heaven - Are There Rewards for Christians?
The Crown of Life
Faithfulness in Temptation
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him (James 1: 12).

The believer’s crowns will be given at Christ’s judgement seat (Bema). For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad (II Corinthians 5:10).

Five Crowns and Rewards in Heaven -

That should be enough.

Read and enjoy!

There is only one life! The crown of life is eternal life. There is no other type of life, period! If there is, feel free to prove it!
Doug

Sure. There is physical life and there is spiritual life. That's 2. And then there's also eternal life. That's 3.

 

[TibiasDad]

So what? The perfect tense isn't in both verses. One of the verses has the aorist indicative active. And this one SURELY DOES mean "never".

Are you admitting my point about the perfect tense? If so then the aorist is the same thing. The "past" action is a relative point from the author or speaker's point of reference. The aorist is used in the future tense too, so that is not "past". The focus of the aorist is "completed action", not when the action takes place. Logically, if I speak of something that has happened (completed rather than ongoing), it is a "past" event, but this says noting about the specifics of when in the past-- that is the meaning of the aorist. Something has or is going to "happen". The when, is irrelevant to the impact of the aorist tense!

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
All the "crowns" mentioned in Scripture relate to reward, Doug. Not to gaining salvation.

Here is some help for you, to learn about the reward crowns.

What Is the Significance of Rewards and Crowns in the Bible?

https://www.breakthroughforyou.com/5-heavenly-crowns/

What are the five heavenly crowns that believers can receive in Heaven? | GotQuestions.org

Crowns in Heaven - Are There Rewards for Christians?
The Crown of Life
Faithfulness in Temptation
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him (James 1: 12).

The believer’s crowns will be given at Christ’s judgement seat (Bema). For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad (II Corinthians 5:10).

Five Crowns and Rewards in Heaven -

That should be enough.

Read and enjoy!


Sure. There is physical life and there is spiritual life. That's 2. And then there's also eternal life. That's 3.

I can only quote one of your own proofs, from Gotquestions.org,

James tells us that this crown of life is for all those who love God (James 1:12). The question then is how do we demonstrate our love for God? The apostle John answers this for us: “For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). As His children we must keep His commandments, obeying Him, always remaining faithful. So, as we endure the inevitable trials, pains, heartaches, and tribulations—as long as we live—may we ever move forward, always “looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith” (Hebrews 12:2) and receive the crown of life that awaits us.

Perhaps you will listen to your own evidence!

Doug

 

[FreeGrace2]

Are you admitting my point about the perfect tense? If so then the aorist is the same thing.

How is it that you don't seem to realize what you said about the perfect.

In post #809 you said:
" Again, the perfect tense says the effects a completed past action are, at the present tense point of expression, still indicatively in force. There is no necessary definition of when in the past the action was completed or initiated, only that it was before the present moment of writing. Other I formation in the context is the only means of determining the past point of time when the action was actually completed!"

Recall that the issue is the phrase "have not believed" as to who will be condemned.

I agree; there is no necessary definition of WHEN in the past the action was completed. But that's not the point. The point is that there NEVER was any action.

And it is quite obvious that the phrase "have not believed" only applies to prior to the moment of writing. This isn't rocket science.

Here's the fact: people who "have not believed" will be condemned. That's the fact.

Therefore, those who "HAVE BELIEVED" won't be condemned. it's that simple.

The "past" action is a relative point from the author or speaker's point of reference.

Why focus on past action when the phrase "have not believed" clearly indicates that there has been NO belief yet?

The aorist is used in the future tense too, so that is not "past".

Of course those who WILL NEVER (future) believe will also be condemned.

You just keep making my points! Thanks.

The focus of the aorist is "completed action", not when the action takes place.

You just keep missing the point; when you're not making my points!

Those who "have not believed" will be condemned. And thos who HAVE believed (notice the tense here) will not be condemned.

What you still do not have is any evidence from Scripture that those who used to believe will be condemned.

Logically, if I speak of something that has happened (completed rather than ongoing), it is a "past" event, but this says noting about the specifics of when in the past-- that is the meaning of the aorist. Something has or is going to "happen". The when, is irrelevant to the impact of the aorist tense!

What does this have to do with the phrase "have not believed". There is no relevance.

 

[FreeGrace2]

"FreeGrace2 said: ↑
All the "crowns" mentioned in Scripture relate to reward, Doug. Not to gaining salvation.

Here is some help for you, to learn about the reward crowns.

What Is the Significance of Rewards and Crowns in the Bible?

https://www.breakthroughforyou.com/5-heavenly-crowns/

What are the five heavenly crowns that believers can receive in Heaven? | GotQuestions.org

Crowns in Heaven - Are There Rewards for Christians?
The Crown of Life
Faithfulness in Temptation
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him (James 1: 12).

The believer’s crowns will be given at Christ’s judgement seat (Bema). For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad (II Corinthians 5:10).

Five Crowns and Rewards in Heaven -

That should be enough.

Read and enjoy!"

I can only quote one of your own proofs, from Gotquestions.org,

James tells us that this crown of life is for all those who love God (James 1:12). The question then is how do we demonstrate our love for God? The apostle John answers this for us: “For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). As His children we must keep His commandments, obeying Him, always remaining faithful. So, as we endure the inevitable trials, pains, heartaches, and tribulations—as long as we live—may we ever move forward, always “looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith” (Hebrews 12:2) and receive the crown of life that awaits us.

Perhaps you will listen to your own evidence!

How does your copy and paste from Gotquestions.org help you? The quote says nothing about losing salvation.

However, all of the websites acknowledge that the crowns mentioned in Scripture are about reward, which you conveniently ignored.

Anyway, I proved my claim from these websites.

 

[TibiasDad]

The phrase "has not believed" can be rendered "has not believed EVER".

There is a huge difference between "can be rendered" and "is necessarily rendered" or generally rendered" which, in essence, is what you are trying to say! The tense itself, be it perfect or aorist, does not define the when or the starting point of any given action! If it doesn't do that, you cannot factually assert what you are saying!

Doug