Tell 5 reasons why your way is good

[quatona]

Please describe shortly what is "your way", like "I'm atheist/Christian/theist" and state 5 reasons why it's a good way.

I´m a cherry picker. I try to take the best parts of the philosophies and metaphysical views I am introduced to.
There´s only one reason why I find that good: It works for me.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I just wanted to briefly point to an interesting contrast that I think typifies religion very well:

I am an agnostic atheist.

I do not claim to have all the answers.

1) Since I make no such claim I can see that which is good in other views, including those of many theists, even Christians.

2) Claiming no god I have no problems because my god demands or has demanded that I consider evil

3) Not being tied to any god I can find the good in all faiths, and can profit by the one good thing in a faith that is otherwise a cesspit.

4) Claiming no divine guidance I can admit my understanding as a child was incomplete or even wrong.

5) If the Christian God is real it will be amusing when I fare better than most Christians if I face his judgment.

My way is Eastern Orthodoxy. Why do I consider my "way" good?

1. It praises the one true God: The Holy Trinity.

2. My church was founded by Christ and His apostles 2000 years ago, and it has remained unchanged since then, being the Church from the beginning.

3. It has a golden tradition, a priceless treasure of teachings taught by hundreds of saints throughout the history, people who dedicated their whole life to Christ and is still leading millions of people to salvation nowadays.

4. It has a response to everything because all the responses were given by God. I know were we come from and how will we end, and what do we have to do to inherit eternal life through Christ.

5. It stays unchanged. Society didn't change the church, in its whole history a lot of atrocities happened to her, the muslims, the roman-catholics, the communists and their militant atheism but they didn't destroyed her. In this century where we think don't know what's true or what isn't, attacked by secularism and depravation, in the Orthodox Church of Christ we find a holy sanctuary, where you find peace and where the evil can't enter. You are home.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

OP, I don't know exactly what you mean by "my way," but I will attempt to furnish an answer regardless and hope that it fits the question you're asking. The religious often claim that they have all the answers; that they know how the universe was created and how it will end; they know that it had an intelligent designer and they even know what this designer is like and what he wants from us mere mortals. They possess the panacea to all life's problems and promise riches beyond reckoning so long as you submit your mind to their dogmas, superstitions, and rituals, and never give voice to doubt.

That's not "my way," at least not any more. I don't have all the answers to life's questions, and I acknowledge that I could be wrong about the answers I do have. "My way" doesn't promise a magic elixir to vanquish all forms of hardship, but it does offer hope that, through the growth of knowledge, we will gain a better handle on life's problems and gradually improve the outcomes we care most deeply about.

 

[Paradoxum]

I've considered that possiblity too.

To name something: visions, voices, phenomenons, stuff like that. Not willing to go into very much detail in this context.

Well those are rather vague. Those could range from bad interpretations of events we all experience, to a psychological problem (or real spirits).

Can you tell me any specifics? What kind of 'vision'? In what way did you hear 'voices'?

I'm aware of that. I meant it in sense of general attitude rather than in any particular opinion, hence word "spirit".

I don't see how a spirit of tolerance means emphasizing good things (if you think the bad are more important). You can hate something and be tolerant of it. So I don't think 'tolerance' is the right word.

Only if you mean it.

I've been thinking that many times when reading keith99's posts before aswell, that's why I wanted to mention it. It was intended as compliment for keith99, not mainly as attack against all others. That was only the secondary purpose

That's fair enough. When I first lost faith I used to be alot nicer and nostalgic towards my old faith. But now I think we would be better off without religion.

Yeah, thats one way of seeing it. I'm familiar with some religious carbage myself. But I really dunno what to make of it, it's not like I can stop it from happening anyways.

I think religious negatives can be stopped by trying to do away with religion.

I genuinely think it does harm... but I don't think I'm being particularly intolerant of it.

 

[Paradoxum]

I have a question Paradoxum, and usually wouldn't necessarily pursue an answer but this is interesting.

Why did you present your reasons for 1. and 4. as direct oppositions to religion ( esp Christianity with 4. ), rather than on their own merits ?

I was a Christian, so those things have affected my life, I suppose. And I think religion does unnecessarily harm.

 

[Wryetui]

Paradoxum. I know it is hard for you to understand what I have said and why do I consider my way good because you barely have knowledge about what life in Christ means, the sacraments, the presence of Him in the Liturgy and some other sacred moments that happens in the Church. It is hard for you because you said "religion" and what "religion" means in a bad term, in the term in which you consider all "religions" to be the same. And no, not everybody who follows Christ is a christian, since now you are a humanist, I doubt that you have ever been a christian for real, if you were, if Christ were in you and you were in Christ, you wouldn't have left Him

I am sorry if my comment seems rude, it is not my intention at all.

 

[Paradoxum]

Paradoxum. I know it is hard for you to understand what I have said and why do I consider my way good because you barely have knowledge about what life in Christ means, the sacraments, the presence of Him in the Liturgy and some other sacred moments that happens in the Church. It is hard for you because you said "religion" and what "religion" means in a bad term, in the term in which you consider all "religions" to be the same. And no, not everybody who follows Christ is a christian, since now you are a humanist, I doubt that you have ever been a christian for real, if you were, if Christ were in you and you were in Christ, you wouldn't have left Him

I am sorry if my comment seems rude, it is not my intention at all.

And there is no true Scotsman... I find it hard to take you seriously if you wont take my former faith seriously.

I used to love God, and it broke my heart to lose faith. I cried and begged God to help me as I felt my faith slipping.

 

[JackofSpades]

I used to love God, and it broke my heart to lose faith.

It seems to me that surprisingly many people who have lost their faith, didn't want it to happen. I've known somehow at least two persons who both said the same that they would have (and to certain extent, still would) been glad having their Christian faith, but it turned out to not be possible for them anymore. I take their word for it.

Well those are rather vague. Those could range from bad interpretations of events we all experience, to a psychological problem (or real spirits).

I am aware of normal secular explanations of mystical phenomenons. Personally I find it important to not completly reject secular explanations for things, and to keep them in mind. Even if I believe in real mystical phenomenon, being aware of psychological factors makes for healthier mysticism, I believe. I see no reason to be dualistic on these things, I think to some degree, it's always a mix of real and imagined things.

Can you tell me any specifics? What kind of 'vision'? In what way did you hear 'voices'?

Not really, since I don't see what good would come out of that in this context. It's not like you're going to believe my explanations or I'm going to believe yours.

And even if I some day wanted my head probed for the possiblity that I might be nuts, I would anyways prefer to do it with nice, professional psychologist while sitting on a comfortable couch rather than with online lynch mob with ideological agenda.

I don't see how a spirit of tolerance means emphasizing good things (if you think the bad are more important). You can hate something and be tolerant of it. So I don't think 'tolerance' is the right word.

I won't argue about definition of tolerance. I think what I said makes sense, but if it doesn't make sense for you, that's cool. Feel free to define words as you please, I'm tolerating person

I think religious negatives can be stopped by trying to do away with religion.

In someones own life that kind of solutions might be possible. But I was talking about the world in larger sense. I don't want to fight the windmills, so to speak. I rather focus on figuring out some way that works for myself. I don't want to try to change the world.

 

[agua]

And there is no true Scotsman... I find it hard to take you seriously if you wont take my former faith seriously.

I used to love God, and it broke my heart to lose faith. I often cried and begged God to help me as I felt my faith slipping.

I've addressed this before with you Paradoxum, I'm sure and we didn't get to the bottom of who you perceived Yahweh is. Which Church doctrines did you follow ?

1. Were you eternal punishment for the wicked ?
2. Were you immortality of the soul ?
3. Did you understand how Yahweh presents Himself to humans ?

It's vital to understand Yahweh's character to know Him.

I was a Christian, so those things have affected my life, I suppose. And I think religion does unnecessarily harm.

I think this may stem from an incorrect understanding of Yahweh and His character. Not necessarily though it could simply be rebellion, too.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I've addressed this before with you Paradoxum, I'm sure and we didn't get to the bottom of who you perceived Yahweh is. Which Church doctrines did you follow ?

1. Were you eternal punishment for the wicked ?
2. Were you immortality of the soul ?
3. Did you understand how Yahweh presents Himself to humans ?

It's vital to understand Yahweh's character to know Him.



I think this may stem from an incorrect understanding of Yahweh and His character. Not necessarily though it could simply be rebellion, too.

Or it could be that she, like many former believers, examined her religious beliefs closely and found that there was insufficient reason to continue believing. Why is that possibility almost always ignored? It's always pinned down to rebellion or not being a good enough Christian. Perhaps the problem isn't with Paradoxum, but with the religion she left behind.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Paradoxum. I know it is hard for you to understand what I have said and why do I consider my way good because you barely have knowledge about what life in Christ means, the sacraments, the presence of Him in the Liturgy and some other sacred moments that happens in the Church. It is hard for you because you said "religion" and what "religion" means in a bad term, in the term in which you consider all "religions" to be the same. And no, not everybody who follows Christ is a christian, since now you are a humanist, I doubt that you have ever been a christian for real, if you were, if Christ were in you and you were in Christ, you wouldn't have left Him

I am sorry if my comment seems rude, it is not my intention at all.

I'm a former Christian. I do have knowledge of the sacraments, the liturgy, and other sacred moments in the church, having participated in them personally. I read the Bible, prayed, attended mass and other gatherings, observed holy days, etc. Was I a "true Christian"? Yes, I was. Not being a Christian now doesn't nullify the fact that I was a Christian.

 

[agua]

Or it could be that she, like many former believers, examined her religious beliefs closely and found that there was insufficient reason to continue believing. Why is that possibility almost always ignored? It's always pinned down to rebellion or not being a good enough Christian. Perhaps the problem isn't with Paradoxum, but with the religion she left behind.

I have before attempted to gain your understanding of Yahweh's character etc, as well, and have noticed an incorrect understanding of scripture is common in "ex Christians."

Was your church group immotal soul/ eternal punishment of the wicked etc ?

I will warn you again Archaeopteryx if our conversation falls into the usual poor communication it will be brief.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I have before attempted to gain your understanding of Yahweh's character etc, as well, and have noticed an incorrect understanding of scripture is common in "ex Christians."

I don't care what you consider to be a "correct understanding of Yahweh's character." I had my own understanding as a Christian, and whether you appraise it as right or wrong is of no concern to me.

Was your church group immotal soul/ eternal punishment of the wicked etc ?

I was a Catholic.

I will warn you again Archaeopteryx if our conversation falls into the usual poor communication it will be brief.

You are confusing poor communication for poor reasoning (on your part): you seem to be unable (or unwilling) to even admit the mere possibility that you could be wrong about anything.

 

[agua]

I don't care what you consider to be a "correct understanding of Yahweh's character." I had my own understanding as a Christian, and whether you appraise it as right or wrong is of no concern to me.

There is no subjectiveness in Yahweh's character ie. we don't get to choose this.

I was a Catholic.

Catholic doctrine is very poor

You are confusing poor communication for poor reasoning (on your part): you seem to be unable (or unwilling) to even admit the mere possibility that you could be wrong about anything.

You are wrong about me, and doing the usual ad hominem fallacies.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

As a Muslim I believe in

A> one God,

B> no drugs or alcohol etc, and

C> a supportive comminity that supports this ethic,

and we have

D> (what I find to be) beautiful ritual worship,

E> we keep ourselves clean and smelling fresh,

and there's

F> staregic advice on social life etc.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

There is no subjectiveness in Yahweh's character ie. we don't get to choose this.

Where did I imply that I believed we get to choose his character? I said no such thing.

Catholic doctrine is very poor

As I said previously, I don't care for your opinion on what constitutes good doctrine, even if you happen to think your opinion is equivalent to Yahweh's.

You are wrong about me, and doing the usual ad hominem fallacies.

My appraisal is based on past interactions where you could not admit even a hint of fallibilism regarding your religious beliefs. Please review the definition of an ad hominem.

 

[agua]

Where did I imply that I believed we get to choose his character? I said no such thing.

You said you had your own understanding, as a Christian. This implies you trusted your own understanding, which appears to be incorrect.

As I said previously, I don't care for your opinion on what constitutes good doctrine, even if you happen to think your opinion is equivalent to Yahweh's.

Yes you have said this before.

My appraisal is based on past interactions where you could not admit even a hint of fallibilism regarding your religious beliefs. Please review the definition of an ad hominem.

Do you have a particular doctrine of mine you'd like to refute; or are you ad hominem attacking me again, because it's simpler ?

 

[quatona]

You said you had your own understanding, as a Christian. This implies you trusted your own understanding, which appears to be incorrect.

Out of interest: How did/do you manage to bypass your own understanding when trying to, well, understand stuff?

 

[agua]

Out of interest: How did/do you manage to bypass your own understanding when trying to, well, understand stuff?

Through investigation and interrogation, and particularly allowing scripture to interpret itself without allowing preconceptions to interfere with good exegesis, as most religious groups do esp. Catholic.

Also it's vital to bring all doctrine into cohenency with Yahweh's character which is revealed through scripture, and the Holy Spirit once Born Again.

 

[quatona]

Through investigation and interrogation, and particularly allowing scripture to interpret itself without allowing preconceptions to interfere with good exegesis, as most religious groups do esp. Catholic.

Sounds to me like your own understanding is involved in all these processes.

Also it's vital to bring all doctrine into cohenency with Yahweh's character which is revealed through scripture, and the Holy Spirit once Born Again.

Ah yes, appeal to ones own"Born Againness" - I forgot.