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What would be the goal of defending your belief ? Why defend it ?Sure you can Archaepteryx, but then how could you defend such a belief whole heartedly ? Also the belief I'm speaking about is certainty/ strong belief, which is the Biblical faith and my personal experience. Strong belief is certain/hot, not undecided/luke warm etc.
It has to be either/or from Jesus' perspective, because the stakes are so high.
What would be the goal of defending your belief ? Why defend it ?
Please describe shortly what is "your way", like "I'm atheist/Christian/theist" and state 5 reasons why it's a good way.
My way is to be spiritual without signing into any religion, I identify as mystic. It's good way because:
1) Spirituality is not limited to priviledged peoples. In history of mysticism, there have been illiterate peasants and educated, powerful peoples alike. It's one of those few fields where people are truely equal.
2) Dimensions of spirit and mind are endless opportunity for great adventures. I still get as excited about some spiritual things as I did 13 years ago (when my journey started).
3) By not limiting my spirituality into context of one religion, I can consider everyone - christians, pagans, you name it - to be my fellow seekers and people from any background can inspire me. I don't feel obliged to judge someone elses way just because it's different than mine.
4) Spirituality is one of few things in life which are not affected by persons age. You can be just as devout at age of 12 or at age of 95.
5) Being a theist, I see god as my company and friend. Relationship with god can be very satisfying and fulfilling element in life.
Perhaps I'm thinking of "defend" in a way you may not be using it then. Idk.You defend your beliefs because unbelievers ( and people of other faiths ) question why you believe Christianity is truth etc, and then while witnessing you need to give reasson for the hope/faith you have when asked. Also other Christians who hold different doctrines question why I have the hope I do, and why the doctrines we believe reflects upon this hope, and eschatology. ( the end result upon all humans )
To be honest, the term "apologetics" is vague to me. It's almost like a mystery term I can't quite identify. Like sand through my hands lol. The other day, I had a thread closed because it "was apologetics based". I couldn't find anything in it which even seemed to go that route, based on the attributes I read that an "apologetics" thread might have. This may show my ignorance ... but I actually thought "apologetics" was essentially when a believer tried to use scriptures, and sometimes historical references to back some claim about their belief. I think I may be wrong. Unless this forums use of the term "apologetics" is also so ambiguous that it's not helping me out in grasping what it actually is lol.I've noticed TillICollapse that you apply apologetics in defence of unbelievers positions often, why is this ? Also I've had several conversations where you've defended your own beliefs, and argued against the Biblical Christian position, which is also apologetical, why is this ?
Hmm ... that's a good question to ask any believer who may believe in such a concept.Do you believe the resurrection into eternal life is the most important subject we face, during our lifetime ?
Hmm ... that's a good question to ask any believer who may believe in such a concept.
I'd actually, at this point in my life, probably say no. At one point in time I would have said yes ... probably 15 years ago I would have said "Yes". Now ? I'd probably say the subject of how we love one another and handle the truth, even though that sounds a bit cheezy ... may be the most important subject we face. Idk though I'd have to think about it a bit more, see what I come up with (if anything different).
I find value in letting others try to "identify" me. It tells me a lot about them, more than I already believe or know about myself. Every now and then someone will hit the nail on the head, and I'll say, "Yup, that's itOk this then identifies why we have such a different perspective on the importance of our faith. The resurrections is the culmination of all Jesus' teachings, and the pinnacle to boot.
So how do you identify spirtually , or don't you fall into any known category ? So far I think you seem to be diestic with no interest in the afterlife, and definitely not stoic ( the flesh is vile ). Maybe you are similar to the Sauducees ?
Please describe shortly what is "your way", like "I'm atheist/Christian/theist" and state 5 reasons why it's a good way.
My way is to be spiritual without signing into any religion, I identify as mystic. It's good way because:
1) Spirituality is not limited to priviledged peoples. In history of mysticism, there have been illiterate peasants and educated, powerful peoples alike. It's one of those few fields where people are truely equal.
2) Dimensions of spirit and mind are endless opportunity for great adventures. I still get as excited about some spiritual things as I did 13 years ago (when my journey started).
3) By not limiting my spirituality into context of one religion, I can consider everyone - christians, pagans, you name it - to be my fellow seekers and people from any background can inspire me. I don't feel obliged to judge someone elses way just because it's different than mine.
4) Spirituality is one of few things in life which are not affected by persons age. You can be just as devout at age of 12 or at age of 95.
5) Being a theist, I see god as my company and friend. Relationship with god can be very satisfying and fulfilling element in life.
I find value in letting others try to "identify" me. It tells me a lot about them, more than I already believe or know about myself. Every now and then someone will hit the nail on the head, and I'll say, "Yup, that's it" Otherwise I rarely even correct someone if they are way off.
I glossed this over the first time, but want to come back to it.Do you believe the resurrection into eternal life is the most important subject we face, during our lifetime ?
Lastly ... I missed where your opinion on the importance of my faith comes into this.Ok this then identifies why we have such a different perspective on the importance of our faith. The resurrections is the culmination of all Jesus' teachings, and the pinnacle to boot.
Sure you can Archaepteryx, but then how could you defend such a belief whole heartedly ?
Also the belief I'm speaking about is certainty/ strong belief, which is the Biblical faith and my personal experience. Strong belief is certain/hot, not undecided/luke warm etc.
It has to be either/or from Jesus' perspective, because the stakes are so high.
(I will warn you again that our communications will be short if you hop onto the merry go round, again. Let's try to avoid this eh )
I'm not sure what you mean by "whole heartedly". I would attempt to defend it with evidence.
Again, it doesn't have to be either-or. You don't have to be either certain or undecided. You could be confident, given the information available. You could assign a value and say that you're 75% confident, for example.
Isn't that always the case with religion? It demands absolute certainty regardless of the evidence or there lack of. It almost never settles for anything less, anything more reasonable.
Stop spinning the merry-go-round then.
Whole heartedly means with all of the heart, soul , mind. Basically with all of the being, and of course is experential ( evidence + experience ). What evidence do you use to defend your beliefs ?
Yes ok we can, and do, assign a P value to all of our beliefs. I give my belief in Yahweh P=1 ( no doubt at all );
What P value do you assign to your beliefs ?
I'll only address Christianity here; if you wish to speak about all religions in general I can't help you. In the case of Christianity the reason we have certainty, and present the consequences of life with certainty, is because the stakes are so high ie. eternal life vs destruction.
The evidence for Yahweh is certain and whether it's accepted, or not, is up to each human.
I glossed this over the first time, but want to come back to it.
In your opinion, what way is this the most important subject we face ? And I'm assuming you mean "we" as in "all people on earth". And a second question concerning this: I can't remember if you believe there is eternal damnation or not, or some type of eternal torment, etc ... or an opportunity for a human being to not resurrect to eternal life. If you do believe something along those lines, what is your practical solution concerning the subject and what do you believe you are doing in regards to it ?
Lastly ... I missed where your opinion on the importance of my faith comes into this.
I'll only address Christianity here; if you wish to speak about all religions in general I can't help you. In the case of Christianity the reason we have certainty, and present the consequences of life with certainty, is because the stakes are so high ie. eternal life vs destruction.
1 equates to absolute certainty. What warrants such an extreme level of certainty?
What evidence exactly?
I completely understand why most believers in a certain faith, will assign certainty to their beliefs and claim the evidence makes it certain.
Psychology of belief, especially when it comes to faith beliefs, explains this phenomenon quite well.
Faith beliefs are one's that become a crucial part of a person's psyche and when this happens, an internal process takes place, to protect the belief and with some, to protect it at all costs. Just the mere thought of someone else pointing out potential flaws in the belief, can cause quite a bit of internal turmoil and cognitive dissonance will occur. Evidence that cognitive dissonance is occurring will be; denial of well evidenced reality, confirmation bias towards means that will protect the belief and selective reasoning.
You see, the pain of acknowledging that one's faith belief can be questioned objectively, threatens the belief and causes the inner turmoil mentioned above. So, the defense mechanisms kick in and take over. With some people, the evidence showing their belief could be flawed, becomes so overwhelming, they get to a point when they can no longer ignore the same, because they realize they are only fooling themselves and they can not reconcile the belief any longer and they change course.
Since I have been on this site, I have asked many believers whether there is any possibility they could be wrong about their belief, even if it was only a 1% chance. What is interesting, is most will claim, there is zero percent chance they are wrong, while a select few will state; sure, I could be wrong, but I have faith in my belief, but understand why others disagree. It is these types of believers, who I feel have the healthiest view of their faith, but that is just my opinion.
Lastly, when you look at the atheists on this site, rarely, will an atheist ever state; it is certain a God does not exist and they will admit, they could be wrong and a God does exist, they just don't see the reasoning behind believing in one.
I find the above difference, very telling in how the typical faith believer and non believer, think.
Firstly Creation itself makes Yahweh self evident, and then once the human searches for Yahweh more personal evidence is given. Also scripture explains and matches reality.
What P value do you assign to your belief that the Earth formed by natural means ?
Creation.
In what way does creation make Yahweh self-evident? In what way does scripture explain reality?
Why ?I suggest any Christian who allows any unbeliever any opportunity to be comfortable in rejecting Yahweh, will find that they're hating this person, rather than loving them.
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