Teens Forum

[K9_Trainer]

With all due respect and in regards to a CO section for all ages within the restrictions, I have encountered more than my share of members my age and above who did identify themselves as Christians, yet were not so kind and considerate of young faith, wither unintentional or otherwise.

I think what we need is a separate forum that will satisfy the concerns of the parents. Lets face it, this is the internet. A young teen can go anywhere and see things they shouldn't be seeing, things that can hurt them and meeting people that aren't Godly. And as pointed out, unless you set age limits to society and theology where they can't even SEE those sections, they are still going to get exposed things they may not be ready to handle.

From what I gather, the parents want a place for their young teens where they will be protected from older members and non believers. Why not just make a CO subforum for those 15 and under? The main hub can be open to all who are within the age limit, to post regardless of faith. It's not up to just CF to protect the teens, its up to the parents too. They play part of that responsibility in setting rules and limits. If a parent is not comfortable with their younger teen posting in the main hub, then it's up to them to make the rule that they may only post in the special subforum.

Might I also bring up CO tags? This honestly worked brilliantly. Just make it an official rule that any topic tagged [CO] may only receive replies from Christians. Just might be something to consider while your still discussing it because it did work.

 

[Samuel_Rigby]

With all due respect and in regards to a CO section for all ages within the restrictions, I have encountered more than my share of members my age and above who did identify themselves as Christians, yet were not so kind and considerate of young faith, wither unintentional or otherwise.

I think what we need is a separate forum that will satisfy the concerns of the parents. Lets face it, this is the internet. A young teen can go anywhere and see things they shouldn't be seeing, things that can hurt them and meeting people that aren't Godly. And as pointed out, unless you set age limits to society and theology where they can't even SEE those sections, they are still going to get exposed things they may not be ready to handle.

From what I gather, the parents want a place for their young teens where they will be protected from older members and non believers. Why not just make a CO subforum for those 15 and under? The main hub can be open to all who are within the age limit, to post regardless of faith. It's not up to just CF to protect the teens, its up to the parents too. They play part of that responsibility in setting rules and limits. If a parent is not comfortable with their younger teen posting in the main hub, then it's up to them to make the rule that they may only post in the special subforum.

Might I also bring up CO tags? This honestly worked brilliantly. Just make it an official rule that any topic tagged [CO] may only receive replies from Christians. Just might be something to consider while your still discussing it because it did work.

CO tags worked until non-believers found out they were not an official rule. They then began posting in threads regardless of the CO tags.

 

[dluvs2trvl]

Hi everyone

Just wanted to post and let you know that I am here and I am reading your posts and you guys have some really great suggestions

I wanted to just make a couple of comments....

The advisors and Pauler are not doing this to "punish" anyone They (and the rest of the staff) are constantly working and striving to improve CF for the membership as a whole. When you are part of the group of members that are experiencing a change in direction it can often feel like a personal attack or a punishment or that you (meaning the collective you) are being singled out like you've done something wrong and that is just not the case at all

Very few people like change and it is often hard to go thru when it's a good change but when it's a change you don't agree with, it quite frankly stinks So I totally understand your feelings but again, this isn't being done to punish anyone. This is being done as the best effort of the advisors and Pauler to meet the needs of all CF's members....and that often times can mean creating change and stirring things up for other members

I also wanted to say that no one is pointing the finger nor should anyone be pointing the finger at non-Christians. This isn't about blaming anyone or trying to put responsibility somewhere. I understand that when things happen that we don't like, it is only natural to try and find an answer that makes sense to us but pointing the finger at Non-Christians and saying that they are to blame is NOT the answer. Pointing the finger at "deluded" (as someone put it) Christians is NOT the answer. Pointing the finger at ANYONE is not the answer.

The bottom line is that change is coming. Exactly what is not decided yet and your thoughts, ideas and suggestions are ALL being read and considered but change is coming. Trying to blame someone for the change isn't going to solve anything or stop the change from coming.

 

[meh]

I don't think the 'my kid is talking to non-Christians' is as big a concern as 'my thirteen year old got advice it's ok to have sex.' I dont' think that actually happened but I'm trying to think of examples. It's more what is talked about, not who is doing the talking. And older teens talk about topics more suitable for their own age group. I'm not explaining this well.

 

[meh]

I need more feedback on if the age range stops at 19 20-24 or 25 would want a new forum.

 

[SuperOktav]

Meh I think the age ranges are a little off.

Someone suggested those 15 and under have their own forum and those 16-21 have their own, you could even do 13-16 and 17-21. I feel those ranges put teens in sub-groups that best reflect what is going on in their lives and where they are most likely developed in regards to education and life challenges.

 

[bubblefish]

I wrote a reply to some of these posts a few days back but the thread was closed when I came to reply so I apologise if this doesn't make a lot of sense because I am cutting and pasting the relevant parts I also apologise if I am repeating things others have said. I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread yet, but will do so later when I get back from class.

Firstly, Meh - thank you for being so open in this thread. It does mean a lot that there is actual discussion here.

It seems the two main issues are teens not being Christ centred and the differing ages. While I can understand parental concerns, I still don't see how these changes are going to benefit the forum.

I know at times there are a lot of things in there that would not be approved of on a very conservative Christian board, as this can be at times, but I ask what age changes, or even CO areas will do to that? I was a mod long before we allowed non-Christians in that forum and the same topics were posted, but they were not frowned upon as much, as they were posted by Christians. I also don't believe that a website is responsible for teens 'losing their faith' which some have mentioned here. Parents of young teens should be monitoring their internet use and their primary lessons of faith should come from their family and church. This website is fellowship - and for teens it is the main reason they come here. By restricting who can post both by age and religion you will now be removing a lot of people who the younger teens see as friends. If the age limit were to change I would suggest changing it only down to 20+ (so one year less) but I still don't see the major problem with the change.

I also like the idea mentioned earlier of a subforum for people under say 15 which is Christian-only where they can post if wanted, but it doesn't restrict the people here who are genuine and responsible posters. I know there are some problem posters in teens, like everywhere else on the board, but the good shouldn't need to be restricted because of the few bad.

Meh, you also asked why there is a need for the older teens to be allowed to post. Firstly, the fellowship. Growing up, I often had more in common with people 2-3years older than myself but I also had some good friendships with those younger than me as well. By restricting ages you are removing a lot of those friendships that are already in place as many don't know how to negotiate the board properly and go to other areas, or are simply happy with their current group and don't want to expand to other places.

As well, who will now give advice? Many of our younger teens struggle with things from sexuality to relationship problems to self-injury and are not comfortable talking to the adults on the board who they feel would not understand their point of view. In restricting age limits though, you are leaving 14 year olds giving other 14 year olds advice – is that really better than maybe hearing from a 19 year old who may have recently gone through something very similar? Struggles are already considered taboo enough in the Christian world without isolating young Christians as they grow and learn more about the world and their faith. I know that there is concern about the advice given, but that can be regulated with sufficient moderating. The mods here are fantastic but are generally understaffed and struggle at times to keep on top of things. Making use of the Christian Advice subforum in teens where only Christian advice can be given might help this. It means that sex etc. wouldn't be promoted but the younger teens can also get advice from older teens who have a bit more experience but are still in a similar age group and can help them out.

I don't know if it is possible but I would like to propose something like this:

• general forum - teens from 13-20 can post. Generally for light topics and fun discussion
• sub-forum for under 15's. This would be restricted and I believe that parents should be monitoring their childs usage, especially if they are under 15. If the parent's are worried they could restrict their children to this area and other 'safe' areas only.
• sub-forum for Christian advice. This would be for the advice threads, for only Christian-based and supported answers. Similar to what it is now.
• gals/guys subforums which are open to all, but with an emphasis on Christian based advice. This means no promotion of sex etc.

While this isn't exactly what seems to be in the works something like it might help to solve some of the problems. Younger teens have a place which is safe for discussion while there is still a place for the general population of teens to congregate and maintain friendships.

I don't know how plausible it is either with staffing levels but there was also a thought at one point to have a sub-forum in society for teens to discuss important world issues. This would take the 'scary' debates away from the teen section but still give the teens who are interested in the disscusions a place to talk about these issues.

 

[bubblefish]

I need more feedback on if the age range stops at 19 20-24 or 25 would want a new forum.

If it comes down to it, this is probably a good idea as I know that a lot of the older teens still don't want to post in Young Adults as the people there are out of their age range. You could always try it and see what happens. If it doesn't take off, like some of the other lifestages forums it can always be merged with young adults or removed later.

 

[S53]

I don't think the 'my kid is talking to non-Christians' is as big a concern as 'my thirteen year old got advice it's ok to have sex.'

Considering that's never been allowed on CFT, it only could of been through PMs.

 

[meh]

no I didn't word that post well. I cannot formulate into words what I'm thinking. Let me try....parents and some staff would think it's ok that 16 or 17 year olds talk about more mature subjects like sex, whereas they would prefer if people perhaps younger than that did not. There was some upset over some posts being a tad racy, but they didn't exactly break any rules. It was just perhaps the posts or discussions were more suited to older teens, not younger.

 

[S53]

Ah okay. Like Jayton's infamous "Penis Envy" thread. In other words, things that shouldn't have been allowed.....but technically were.

 

[SuperOktav]

no I didn't word that post well. I cannot formulate into words what I'm thinking. Let me try....parents and some staff would think it's ok that 16 or 17 year olds talk about more mature subjects like sex, whereas they would prefer if people perhaps younger than that did not. There was some upset over some posts being a tad racy, but they didn't exactly break any rules. It was just perhaps the posts or discussions were more suited to older teens, not younger.

If this is the case, the most logical answer is to give young teens (13-15) their own forum. This way the youngest members are isolated from discussions you don't want them taking part in, and the mid and older teens can discuss those things that are relevant to their lives.

 

[Perceivence]

It's more what is talked about, not who is doing the talking.

Heh.

It seems the powers that be have always seen this as a problem with the Christian Teens forum. I recall my frustration when the rule banning discussion on things like homosexuality and abortion was first implemented. (I think that rule was eventually modified to a severe limitation on them.) I was one who went to the CFTeens board to meet with others my age to have interesting discussions, not to play games that I found (and still find) silly (Sharpie vs Duct Tape!!1!1!one). This was before CFTeens was open to non-Christians. Then as now, it seemed the 'problem' was the topics being discussed and that the problem was the process of decision-making by the administrators.

I suspect that these changes will go ahead with little or no evidence of the input that the teens have been making in the final decision, but here's hoping. I've only recently returned to CF, so some of my suggestions may have been implemented already:

1. Overlap the age ranges
   
   There's nothing wrong with having a CFTeens forum from 13 - 21, and then a young adults from from 19 - 30; or in having a CFTeens forum for 13 - 18, and another one for 16 - 21 (and then a young-adults one from 19 - 27 or whatever). Artificial boundaries that confer abilities on people as the clock strikes 12:00 are generally only needed when the more natural boundaries are difficult to implement. That's one reason why there's a voting age. I see no similar reason here on CF.
2. Find a way to encourage all discussion (or as much discussion as possible)
   
   Teenagers want to talk about sex. Christian teenagers are challenged about evolution, theology and sexuality. People tend to be more comfortable talking about these things with the relative anonymity of the Internet than in a church youth group or something. If they don't talk about it in person and they don't talk about it here, where do you want them to talk about it?
   
   Some of the best people they can learn these things from are other Christian teenagers (or young adults). Maybe you can look for moderators who are good at arguing things for Christianity. Or consider having 'youth leaders' (Christians in their twenties or thirties who are allowed to post on the board). Better yet, take point 3 below to heart.
   
   And finally on this point, please try to be as liberal as possible concerning the topics of discussion. Naturally, rules on the manner of discussion need to be laid (be courteous and respectful etc), but I strongly suggest that rules on their matter be determined by broad principles that are more free than they are constrained, and that are more sensitive to the circumstances of individual discussions than dependent on what some parents or administrators might think always happen.
3. Involve the teens in your decision-making
   
   And I don't mean after it has been decided that there will be a change just so that no one can say that you didn't consult with the board users. You might be surprised at the kind of ideas young people have concerning their own affairs.

 

[K9_Trainer]

I think overlapping wouldn't be a bad idea at all.

A friend of mine suggested lowering the young adult age to 17 through whatever you don't consider a young adult anymore. Do that and put teens from 13 to 20, or 19 (19 is still a teen yeah? ). Try to keep the life stages together a bit more. Like you Meh, I started college at 17 and it was strange. I'm 19 now, but still get along fairly well with people anywhere from 16 to 23, and I'm a good role model for the younger ones I know. 17 year olds can handle the young adults section, many are preparing to move out from under their parents roof and become responsible for themselves. Having overlapping age ranges would probably make the transition much easier.

Also, if you don't mind me pointing out....We, in teens, were not allowed to discuss pre marital sex, drug use and mostly anything else we don't want influencing young teens in a bad way. In fact, I know from being on staff and modding teens, we got rid of any post that was even promoting alcohol in that section. Not a rule, but not appropriate for young eyes and nevermind illegal. Your mods were watching out for the younger ones. If parents were upset with that, then the kid must have gotten into a discussion before it was closed, or got into one elsewhere on the board.

 

[Atlantians]

Guys, I have to point out that the most likely outcome is that 20-21 year olds won't post.
That may be frustrating... but it is not like they are kicking out 18 and 19 year olds too!

It is also possible that they will simply reduce it to 20.
That is also not that bad, really.

I think overlapping wouldn't be a bad idea at all.

A friend of mine suggested lowering the young adult age to 17 through whatever you don't consider a young adult anymore. Do that and put teens from 13 to 20, or 19 (19 is still a teen yeah? ). Try to keep the life stages together a bit more. Like you Meh, I started college at 17 and it was strange. I'm 19 now, but still get along fairly well with people anywhere from 16 to 23, and I'm a good role model for the younger ones I know. 17 year olds can handle the young adults section, many are preparing to move out from under their parents roof and become responsible for themselves. Having overlapping age ranges would probably make the transition much easier.

Overlapping is a great idea!

I would also suggest merging the Bible-College/College and Young Adults sections together. With specifically College related issues becoming a sub-forum.

I would suggest:
Teens: 13-19(or 20).
Young Adults: 18-29
30s: 28-39.
Ect.

College and Young adults should be merged because they are probably overlapping a lot anyway.
Make college specific issues a sub-forum of young adults.

Add a "Seminary" section for all 18+ if you wish.

and like i have pointed out earlier, what CF intended to accomplish and what has been accomplished are 2 different things. instead of getting form where christianity is the common ground, the teens have migrated to a forum that is primarily administered by an atheist. she is being very respectful of christianity, and has shown that she is respectfully enough for me to be ok with having on a christian forum however... but im guessing the parents aren't to happy with this result. And like i said before for every day that advisers are spending debating the more people are coming to like that forum.. what you intended and the unforeseen consequences of reality are two different things.

I would also like to point out that she has done a great job too, all things considered. And I am certainly not someone who would say that rashly or without basis.

 

[meh]

well, I had several posts quoted and responded to and CF decided to log me out when I went to post and now it's gone.

to the issue of if this matters- it does. Can I promise changes will make everyone happy? No. I can't promise that decisions won't be made that don't make people upset. But if this didn't matter and if you weren't being listened to, dluvs and I and other staff wouldn't be here. It'd be a waste of our time and yours and I don't like to waste time.

Here is one issue I don't get. I think I even said in staff forums at one point "I don't get the problem." I don't. I'm not saying I'm right and everyone else is wrong- I'm just saying I don't get this. I don't understand why having a CO area within the teens section is such a problem. I would imagine only a small number of people would want to post only in that area. And if they do- who cares? If it makes them happy and comfortable, I don't understand the problem. If they want to post in both the open section and the CO section- that sounds fine. Parents love the idea, staff loves it, I think it's good....I'm not understanding and never have why it's such a bad idea. I'm fairly certain there will be one. But I've always been extremely curious as to why this is not a good idea. I think that opposition was it's redundant and possibly would split the forum.

To the idea of having a sub-forum in Society for the political/ethical debates- that's an interesting idea. Was there a proposal about this before that had some more details?

This part

If this is the case, the most logical answer is to give young teens (13-15) their own forum. This way the youngest members are isolated from discussions you don't want them taking part in, and the mid and older teens can discuss those things that are relevant to their lives.

Do you mean within teens or their own area like a Jr. High area?

 

[bubblefish]

To the idea of having a sub-forum in Society for the political/ethical debates- that's an interesting idea. Was there a proposal about this before that had some more details?

I am not sure if it ended up being an official proposal or just an idea we discussed briefly. I know that I was discussing it with Ron (I think) at one point. It was quite a while ago though and didn't go ahead due to the low staff numbers in the society area who wouldn't be able to handle another forum. I think most of it was on MSN or possibly in the staff forums but I can try to find anything that might still be on my computer if you like.

As for a CO forum - I don't mind the idea of that, as long as there was still a place where everyone was included, and I think most people wouldn't mind that. I think the main thing people are worried about is the age change.

 

[Atlantians]

I think a CO section is a great idea.

Also, I do like the idea of lumping the 17-25(maybe up to 28?) year olds together and the 13-16 year olds together.

 

[christiancutie]

Meh, I don't think having a CO area in teens is an issue. I for one would be fine with there being a CO section. I also think the idea of having different age groups is a good one, but I think if you are going to do that then why lower the age limit so drastically. Parents don't want their 13 year olds in the same forum as 20 year olds, I understand that. If we are going to make a devision in the age groups then wouldn't that remove the issue for the most part at least?

I think the main issue is the age change, people are being separated from their friends... I know I am. I know, I personally feel somewhat like I have no where to go if not in teens. I know there are a lot of other area's that I could go, and I do hang out in the Blessings Exchange, but lets face it if that were the only place I have to go I will probably get bored and leave. I don't really feel at home in Young Adults or in the Singles areas and my younger friends aren't allowed into those areas.

Also, I think the idea of having the over lapping ages is a good one.

I hope this makes sense, I'm tired.

 

[meh]

I am not openly emotional but I will tell you with tears in my eyes that if it were not for someone in university, on this board, telling me that things are really different and that highschool doesn't set the course of your life (or something very significant), I would be in a very bad place now. Such a fact may be painfully obvious to those of us who have not followed stereotypical routes, but it is as alien to many of us as much as raising a child is alien to many new parents.

I think a CO section is a great idea.

Also, I do like the idea of lumping the 17-25(maybe up to 28?) year olds together and the 13-16 year olds together.

ok do you mean in like two new separate forums, or under the banner of teens.