Teens Forum

[Atlantians]

I myslef am hurt about this situation. I feel that yes us a mods were talked to about it but nothing was asked to the teens. I feel that perhaps that maybe this wouldn't have happened if the Advisors would more then likely have talked to the members.

It wouldn't have been a great Idea just to bam changes. It would prolly have cause a little more chaos then the others.

I'm with Donna and the other two posters before her. I have been talking to the CFT and you know what They are calm. They are upset yes but they aren't like trying to cause a ricas or anything.

I feel that perhaps this situation yes its getting handled and yes its getting taking care of but it wasn't handled properly.

I'm no longer a staff because I left on personnal issues but as a CFT member and friend to most of them this was not the smoothess course too take.

I now way am I being rude or anything like that. I'm basing my opinion.

Also I wanted to say thank you to Meh for that post that she did post. It was helpful and easy explanation. I'm sorry that her comp was hacked as well.

Just I'm not happy teens aren't happy but telling us to calm down and keep doing that isn't the way to go when we have calmed down.

Donna says hurt and stabbed in the back. Honestly I am as well. What hurt me the most is I've modded for teens for 6 months and been an active member there for years. About 2 years I was active. When I got told that mods well have to find another section I was hurt.

CFT was my home and my closests friends were there. Having to leave all of sudden wasn't the greatist thing for me.

I decided anyways to wait it out and cancel my first resignation. Well things came up and school was an issue in one of them so I resigned again this time official.

I do want everyone to know though that I've always have had heart for teen ministries. A teen ministry consists of those 13-19. That is the age limit by law. According to law once someone hits 20 they are no longer a teen.

I've said my peace on the whole matter. Again nothing here is ment to be flamery or rude just an opinion.

Your post... is in tiny... pink... letters... and ... I ... can't... read it.. so I am... quoting it... in big normal... letters...

 

[arborvita]

Hmmm I am not sure what to say but here we go. So I will try to speak the best I can and I hope not to offend anyone too much.

First off I am still a bit upset as to how all this went down and I am trying to move past it.

When people loose the trust they have in others over things it just makes for a break down in all kinds of ways. When people are in place of trust and they break it a person spends lots of time wondering why even bother trusting others.

I realize that CF has alot of backroom talks happening and if frustrates people. We have tried several different methods to this approach from the wikis to where we are now.
We talk for several weeks about things with scads of people to get input. We then talk with openly with staff about it and try to get more input. Ultimately it is then rolled out to the board only after we have had countless hours of conversations about things.

Now I know I come across as what some perceive as rude or harsh. I apologize I just don't see a need to sugar coat things or beat around the bush.

As far as things are now with the forum:
1. We are in talks and really need things to cool down on this issue as it is consuming loads of time. When we are spending this much time on something other areas lag and that further pushes back the talks of the teens new format.
2. There will be changes. Sorry its gonna happen. The age issue is one of them. I am just going to be honest and put that out there. (This is not the time to debate please see point 1.)
3. We will be in talks with the teens area staffers about this issue before we roll it out to the board.
4. Please I ask you all to pray for the site, each other, and everyone.

Thank You.

 

[YourlilKatiebaby]

I am not defending the teens who were disruptive and caused problems, and if it was teens who hacked the Advisers then I am not defending them either. But this was not completely the teens fault. Its unfair to accuse them of it. And thats really what I am seeing.

If you really want to get the forum back together, I think a formal apology needs to be made. Obviously it would be best coming from both sides, but right now, I dont see it coming from the teens.

From what I've seen, the teens feel betrayed. We really are a family. Changing the age was threatening to tear us apart. Obviously things were not handled appropriately by the teens, but seriously? They are a bunch of kids (I speak in the third person because I wasn't around for the actual event. I was about an hour late haha) The teens feel betrayed by the staff.

I doubt a lot of the older teens will come back because the threat of them losing their posting abilities in the first place made them feel betrayed. And a lot of those older teens were friends with middle ages teens, who wont come back because there would be no reason if their friends aren't there.

Its a bad situation all around right now. No one is completely responsible, and no one is innocent of responsibility... but right now, the only way I can see things getting better is for someone to make a formal apology... and I dont see that happening. But I've been wrong before.

 

[Atlantians]

Hmmm I am not sure what to say but here we go. So I will try to speak the best I can and I hope not too offend anyone to much.

I will say something too: Thank you!

First off I am still a bit upset as to how all this went down and I am trying to move past it.

Fundamentally many of us are past it as well, it is simply difficult to deal with.

Again, thanks for your response.

When people loose the trust they have in others over things it just makes for a break down in all kinds of ways. When people are in place of trust and they break it a person spends lots of time wondering why even bother trusting others.

This is true and seems to apply to everyone involved.

Namely for you and the Advisers who actually had your person computers assaulted.

I realize that CF has alot of backroom talks happening and if frustrates people. We have tried several different methods to this approach from the wikis to where we are now.
We talk for several weeks about things with scads of people to get input. We then talk with openly with staff about it and try to get more input. Ultimately it is then rolled out to the board only after we have had countless hours of conversations about things.

Ok. This approach may not be the best.
I can not think of a way to alter it except maybe polling early on in the talks of the population effected, if possible.

Now I know I come across as what some perceive as rude or harsh. I apologize...

Thank you very very much for this.

You and Meh have both responded softly in the last two pages and that is very appreciated.

As far as things are now with the forum:
1. We are in talks and really need things to cool down on this issue as it is consuming loads of time. When we are spending this much time on something other areas lag and that further pushes back the talks of the teens new format.

Well, as long as the Haven forum exists, most of the teens effected will be there. If that Haven merges or changes to a permanent location, CFTeens might never be the same.

I hope you are able to get everything solidly together and also that you can secure whatever allowed the criminal actions to have taken place!

2. There will be changes. Sorry its gonna happen. The age issue is one of them. I am just going to be honest and put that out there. (This is not the time to debate please see point 1.)

All I ask is that when the changes are made a thorough reason is given for the changes so no one is confused or has room to speculate.

3. We will be in talks with the teens area staffers about this issue before we roll it out to the board.
4. Please I ask you all to pray for the site, each other, and everyone.

Indeed.

Thank You.

Likewise.

I am not defending the teens who were disruptive and caused problems, and if it was teens who hacked the Advisers then I am not defending them either.

Certainly. Whoever did it actually broke the law as far as I am aware.

But this was not completely the teens fault. Its unfair to accuse them of it. And thats really what I am seeing.

If you really want to get the forum back together, I think a formal apology needs to be made. Obviously it would be best coming from both sides, but right now, I dont see it coming from the teens.

It would need to be mutual and universal IMO.

From what I've seen, the teens feel betrayed. We really are a family. Changing the age was threatening to tear us apart. Obviously things were not handled appropriately by the teens, but seriously? They are a bunch of kids (I speak in the third person because I wasn't around for the actual event. I was about an hour late haha) The teens feel betrayed by the staff.

This is true.

It is a good point that many are indeed kids.
And that is what they should be right now too!

I doubt a lot of the older teens will come back because the threat of them losing their posting abilities in the first place made them feel betrayed. And a lot of those older teens were friends with middle ages teens, who wont come back because there would be no reason if their friends aren't there.

If the Young Adult Section could be altered to cover a larger range of ages and allow the influx of the older teens that might help. Unsure though.

Its a bad situation all around right now. No one is completely responsible, and no one is innocent of responsibility...

Well, if anyone would get all the responsibility, it would be the hackers!

 

[YourlilKatiebaby]

No, they aren't. It was a bad situation before the hacking happened. That made it worse. But there were issues before that.

No offense to you, but saying that its completely the hackers faults is a total cop out. There were issues before that, there were other issues after. It can't be blamed on a few people who hacked a forum. I doubt that the two incidences are completely unrelated.

 

[arborvita]

Alright this is going to get closed for the night.


ETA just for the night until someone is around to help answer questions.

 

[icarusforde]

Thread re opened for now.

 

[K9_Trainer]

I want to add that I do not think your teen staff team, considering it is now down to 2 or 3 people, is a very good representation of what the teens really do need or want.

The ones who politely opposed the changes initially have gone, resigned or been removed. That leaves you with nothing but people who either agree with your proposed changes or are afraid/unwilling to speak up and no voice for what the cons will be, no voice for the community of teens you have and what their needs may be.

Teenagers are in a stage where they are capable of making decisions for themselves and deciding whats best for themselves or are learning to do so, yet they are still in need guidance, not command. Implementing these changes without their input because a minority of parents are complaining just seems like a formula for disaster when the majority is not in favor of these changes.

However, we understand that this is just an internet forum. We realize we are here at our own will and can leave at our discretion, and I'm sure those who are not in favor of those changes may very well do just that.

 

[Nooj]

2. There will be changes. Sorry its gonna happen. The age issue is one of them. I am just going to be honest and put that out there. (This is not the time to debate please see point 1.)

This is not me being combative, I just want information. Why was this not made public to the teens for discussion? From what I understand, the changes were going to be implemented almost immediately, without any input from the teens. What were the reasons for this?

 

[icarusforde]

This is not me being combative, I just want information. Why was this not made public to the teens for discussion? From what I understand, the changes were going to be implemented almost immediately, without any input from the teens. What were the reasons for this?

This was not the case.

The post where details were released in teens forums was not the final proposal. Discussions were in effect between Mods, Admins and Advisors.

They were days, if not weeks, off being implimented.

 

[bubblefish]

I know there have been mistakes made on both sides of this issue and it hasn't been handled in the best way but can I at least ask that the teens are consulted about the changes and allowed to discuss it with the staff involved? I know that this forum often runs on private discussions within the mods areas but this affects a lot of people and a lot of teens have already been hurt - shutting everyone out is going to make it worse.

I know that it is not always possible to consult every teen member (it often ends up out of control) but is it possible to at least get a group together to discuss this? People who can bring the concerns of the teens to the advisors and try to find some kind of middle solution. I know there are some parts that would be non-negotiable but maybe there is a way to make more than just the parents happy?

As Donna mentioned, it seems there aren't many teen staffers left and I know that a lot of the members are not exactly fans of the staff right now and don't fully trust them, especially when the remaining teen staff mainly agreeing with the changes. If this is going to take a while to sort out, at least consult some of the teen members and hear their concerns - don't just dictate and reign over them. That doesn't fix the problem.

 

[icarusforde]

Speaking from what i have gained from the Advisors, this would have gone to the teens as it was and been discussed with them before it was leaked.

 

[[serious]]

These bolt from the blue changes seem to result in these kinds of problems every single time you do them. politics, GA, NCR, all the same problems popping up after a change is tossed out with zero feedback and limited to no notice. Even moderators are caught unaware by most of these changes (not sure about this case, that's how it was for the examples I gave. With GA an admin had actually just promised GA would reopen in a week when the superadmins dropped in to announce that the close would now be permanent. No discussion, no lead time, no indication that it even might happen.



Every time you make a substantial change without consulting the people it will effect and without any notice, this is what is going to happen. It's basic human nature.

I've proposed this before, but if you started a thread outlining what the issues are, maybe pros and cons for a proposed course of action, solicited feed back for a week or so, and implemented maybe a month later, you would probably not have nearly as many problems from making changes. Even if the process is just paying lip service to the idea that your minds could be changed, it still give people an opportunity to adjust and weigh it rather than being forced into an emotional knee jerk response by having it just appear out of nowhere.

EDIT: from what it sounds like, some progress has been made at least with talkign with mods ahead of time. I'm glad to see that some of these lessons are finally being learned

 

[K9_Trainer]

You, my friend, have hit the nail on the head.

Excellent post.

 

[bubblefish]

Speaking from what i have gained from the Advisors, this would have gone to the teens as it was and been discussed with them before it was leaked.

But how much would actually be discussed and how much will be discussed now? These things often end up being 'hi - this is what we are doing and this is when we are doing it. Staff have discussed it and it is the best option'. The people who constantly use the forum and are most affected are rarely consulted.

 

[icarusforde]

But how much would actually be discussed and how much will be discussed now? These things often end up being 'hi - this is what we are doing and this is when we are doing it. Staff have discussed it and it is the best option'. The people who constantly use the forum and are most affected are rarely consulted.

I dont know - i honestly dont. We didnt have this option.

 

[ChristianWarrior]

I want to add that I do not think your teen staff team, considering it is now down to 2 or 3 people, is a very good representation of what the teens really do need or want.

The ones who politely opposed the changes initially have gone, resigned or been removed. That leaves you with nothing but people who either agree with your proposed changes or are afraid/unwilling to speak up and no voice for what the cons will be, no voice for the community of teens you have and what their needs may be.

Teenagers are in a stage where they are capable of making decisions for themselves and deciding whats best for themselves or are learning to do so, yet they are still in need guidance, not command. Implementing these changes without their input because a minority of parents are complaining just seems like a formula for disaster when the majority is not in favor of these changes.

However, we understand that this is just an internet forum. We realize we are here at our own will and can leave at our discretion, and I'm sure those who are not in favor of those changes may very well do just that.

I have to say, I agree with pretty much everything said here.

The first point is especially important. One of the biggest issues here is that the Teens are feeling under-represented. Only a limited percentage of us are able to post in CF anymore, and, as Donna has said, the few remaining staff members are the ones that never had a feather ruffled with the proposed changes.

The Teens section will likely not be the same again for quite a long time now, and I know that many people have no intention of returning to CF, even after the Teens section is re-opened (I will likely be one of them since the new changes exclude me from that section). However, I would like to help out with the reconciliation a bit. It is going to be important to have some Mods on board who aren't always going to be "Yes Men" for the Advisors. That won't completely solve all of the tensions (since the wishes of the members will never have any real power over those of the Advisors) but it will at least make things possible.

Also, as far as apologies go, I'm afraid it isn't practical to expect or even suggest one from the "Teens". The group is too diverse, and the majority of them never did anything wrong in any way, shape, or form. Maybe some individual members will offer apologies, but most of the Teens aren't even aware of who did these unfortunate things. However, the Advisors are a much smaller group, and they can more easily write something up between the three of them. Obviously it requires them to "suck it up" so to speak, but it will probably do wonders for many of the members (and displays a level of maturity that will be appreciated by many). If they are unable to make the apology because they feel that it would undermine their authority and power too much...well, that's their call, but it will appear rather selfish and will leave many people feeling incredibly insulted.

Hope that the work continues to go well.

God bless,
Dan

 

[Bamboo_Chicken]

This might seem a little off-topic, but what's considered breaking confidentiality with everything that's happened? From what I can see, people have been banned and staffers have been removed because they thought they were being helpful when confused members asked why the teens forum had disappeared (and no announcement had been posted). I cannot fathom that all of those banned/removed were campaigning and/or rallying (actually, I'd guess only a small percentage were), yet I cannot understand how 'the teen forum is closed for modifications' or 'there's been a bit of chaos - we dont really know much yet' is breaking confidentiality or campaigning.

 

[icarusforde]

I have to say, I agree with pretty much everything said here.

The first point is especially important. One of the biggest issues here is that the Teens are feeling under-represented. Only a limited percentage of us are able to post in CF anymore, and, as Donna has said, the few remaining staff members are the ones that never had a feather ruffled with the proposed changes.

The Teens section will likely not be the same again for quite a long time now, and I know that many people have no intention of returning to CF, even after the Teens section is re-opened (I will likely be one of them since the new changes exclude me from that section). However, I would like to help out with the reconciliation a bit. It is going to be important to have some Mods on board who aren't always going to be "Yes Men" for the Advisors. That won't completely solve all of the tensions (since the wishes of the members will never have any real power over those of the Advisors) but it will at least make things possible.

Also, as far as apologies go, I'm afraid it isn't practical to expect or even suggest one from the "Teens". The group is too diverse, and the majority of them never did anything wrong in any way, shape, or form. Maybe some individual members will offer apologies, but most of the Teens aren't even aware of who did these unfortunate things. However, the Advisors are a much smaller group, and they can more easily write something up between the three of them. Obviously it requires them to "suck it up" so to speak, but it will probably do wonders for many of the members (and displays a level of maturity that will be appreciated by many). If they are unable to make the apology because they feel that it would undermine their authority and power too much...well, that's their call, but it will appear rather selfish and will leave many people feeling incredibly insulted.

Hope that the work continues to go well.

God bless,
Dan

Hi dan.

Yes, some of the teens are not able to post. Its sad, i think it is anyways. A lot of my friends are among this group.

I object vaguely to being called a 'Yes Man' mod - you know im not Dan.

It would be nice to receive one from the teens group - sure, it might not be universal, but its there, ok? Also, there be more than four advisors.

 

[icarusforde]

This might seem a little off-topic, but what's considered breaking confidentiality with everything that's happened? From what I can see, people have been banned and staffers have been removed because they thought they were being helpful when confused members asked why the teens forum had disappeared (and no announcement had been posted). I cannot fathom that all of those banned/removed were campaigning and/or rallying (actually, I'd guess only a small percentage were), yet I cannot understand how 'the teen forum is closed for modifications' or 'there's been a bit of chaos - we dont really know much yet' is breaking confidentiality or campaigning.

Hey Steffi.

Breaking confidentiality is pretty much releasing what was said under confidentiality - its something that you agree to in your mod application, that you wont disclose cofidential information.

I dont know exactly who was banned, or what for, or what they were doing at the time, so i cant comment really.