Ted Williams was an atheist

[crazyfingers]

Originally posted by brian_z_babe
I would never ever think bad of others even if they arnt religious!who cares!If they can't find God and don't want him in their life so let it be!Some of the nicest people I know dont belive in God,but they most surtinly DO NOT go around bad mouthing any people that belive in God! [/B]

I have said that 45% or so of people in the US think that one has to believe in a god to be moral. I equate moral with good person and immoral with bad person and I think that most people also loosely equate the two.

If you don't think badly of nontheists, then you are fortunately not one of the 45% or so.

 

[crazyfingers]

I will addres the other posts later.

 

[crazyfingers]

Originally posted by strathyboy
I have some issues with your source and with your presentation of the statistics presented within.

Well, you’ll have to take that up with the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, a part of The Pew Charitable Trusts.

It’s their report, not mine.

First off, your source says that 47% of Christians say that belief in God is necessary to be moral. This does not mean that 47% of Christians think that atheists are bad people. I do not equate morality with the worth of a person in any way. For instance, I have a roommate who, to put it mildly, gets around. He's a real ladies man. I think his actions are immoral, but I do not hate him, think he's a bad person, or otherwise discriminate against him because he does not share my beliefs.

Like I said above, I think that most people loosely equate morality with good and immorality with bad.

Second, the first few pages of the essay seem blatantly anti-religious. It mocks those who have joined a religion since September 11th, suggesting that religion as a whole was to blame for the attacks, and is still to blame for much of the conflict in the world today. I would question just how "objective" the poll used to gain that 47% statistic is.

I think that you would be hard pressed to find too many people who are critical of their objectivity. They do a lot of very objective work.

Pew Forum

Pew Charitable Trusts

Do you think badly about Christians for "no good reason"?

Since I’m married to a Christian, I’d say "no" to your question.

I still question why Ted Williams was used as an example. Using him to try to push an atheist agenda by proving to Christians that some non-Christians can be famous too seems low.

Again, I asked the question would people think differently of him if they knew that he was an atheist. It’s a reasonable question given the widespread prejudice against atheists in the US. And, I did not use him as an example a famous non-believer but someone who is thought very highly of for the things that he has done. And I asked if people would continue to think so highly of him if they generally knew he was an atheist.

EDIT: Apparently you didn't even read the website you gave. There are several reasons in there why that website believes Christians would believe atheists to be immoral. Again, if I think an atheist is immoral, I do not think that they are bad or desire to harm them in any way.
Your suggestion that Christians near you have such feelings is a thoroughly unconvincing argument. Using unproveable personal examples to attempt to prove a generalization about the whole of Christianity is simply bad logic.

If you really want, I’d be happy to find for you a lot more situations.

By the way, this was in my newspaper today. I found it in another because my paper doesn’t post these columns on their website.

Hateful column

Against what other group would newspapers across the US actually feel free to publish such rubbish? Not against Jews. Not against blacks, and in many places not against gays. But I guess that it's OK to stir public hatred against atheists. Why is that OK?

 

[Gunny]

Originally posted by Raging Atheist


Or maybe he was a real jerk

Well, many former players stated that Ted Williams was sort of a jerk.

I view it more that Ted Williams lived with an intensity, the very thing that makes men pursue excellence.

Honestly, I beleive Ted Williams would get pretty bored with never ending debate on atheism or God.



GySgt James

 

[Starscream]

I notice that no other atheists are jumping up to declare that they are also discriminated against by the US.

Oops, allow me to chime in then. I've only been out of the closet for about 3 years now. The topic of atheism hardly comes up (most people just assume I'm a polite Christian) but when it does come up - oh boy!

Just this morning I was having a very nice talk with a woman on the bus on the way to work. She was telling me about the trials and tribulations of finishing her Ph.D in molecular biology and evolution. I then asked her about how she felt about all the hoopla regarding evolution in U.S. schools. The response was quite similar to this:

"Oh! That is so annoying! It's just like those stupid atheists who want God taken out of the Pledge! All the atheists I know are miserable, hateful people! Arghh...it just makes me so angry, know what I'm saying?"

I was shocked. Can't even talk to some people about science without getting an earfull of the good ol atheist bashing.

I don't remeber ever having a problem while I lived in Canada though (except for my in-laws that didn't want my wife to date a heathen). Perhaps that is why you are doubtful.

 

[Starscream]

I still question why Ted Williams was used as an example. Using him to try to push an atheist agenda by proving to Christians that some non-Christians can be famous too seems low.

I don't understand what is so low about it. Had Ted's last words been, "Oh Jesus please enter my heart, blah, blah, blah..." would you not expect it to be celebrated here?

 

[KeepTheFaith15]

im a new christian and it makes me mad to see the atheist come on here and bring up the subject on athiest people and how badly they get treated, why they came on here to tell about some famous person being athiest so it's ok and not expect to get negative feedback, i think athesism is wrong, maybe it seems right to you but it's not god exsist wether you like it or not and come judgement day your gonna be on your knees begging to be forgiven,you dont want to go to hell and it's gonna be to late, i know even though im forgiven when judgement day comes im still gonna fall on my face at his throne for all the wonderful things he's given to me and done for me, im gonna be on my knees praising him for the mighty,power and control he has over me, the difference between atheist people and christians is that christians are much more happier with their lifes, we can see the positive things in life, it gets hard just cause were saved we still have problem but we can do all thing through christ who gives us strength, now i tend to ramble and im doing that now just saying that atheism is wrong in my opinion but some of my friends are non-believers but i dont hate them. because when i get the opportunity to tell my story of god's love for me, i can have at least the chance to turn their life around for the better, but i think you atheist should worry about their religion and not others and if you want SOME christians to stop judging you then quit judgeing them, worry about your problems and what you havent accoplished in your life instead of whats going on in others life and what religion are, and not all christians are so eager to hate someone because their athiest.

 

[Raging Atheist]

Aye, me too, I posted my gripes in another thread just for it, but since no one seems to have bother reading it, I'll have throw in my 0.02.

i think athesism is wrong, maybe it seems right to you but it's not god exsist wether you like it or not and come judgement day your gonna be on your knees begging to be forgiven

Short of being forced to my knees in such an event, I will stand and make no excuses... I am responsible for my actions... perhaps if some christians accepted responsibility for their actions instead of blaming the devil...

because when i get the opportunity to tell my story of god's love for me, i can have at least the chance to turn their life around for the better

No, this is an opportunity to annoy us and give us further reason to dislike your beliefs because they clearly don't have the strength to stand on their own...

Well, many former players stated that Ted Williams was sort of a jerk.
I view it more that Ted Williams lived with an intensity, the very thing that makes men pursue excellence.
Honestly, I beleive Ted Williams would get pretty bored with never ending debate on atheism or God.

I can live with that statement gunny

I found the intention of this post pretty dubious at first, but I think crazyfingers has justified himself pretty well. Yes, atheists are a minority. And a silent minority at that. We take just as much bashing as most minorities, but we never bother to refute it publicly, because atheism is a personal choices, and so this hate proliferates.

I think I met that same woman, starscream... how about this one, "Oh, I'm sure you believe in god. You're just not sure what you're talking about is all. You'll find faith soon."

 

[Starscream]

I think I met that same woman, starscream... how about this one, "Oh, I'm sure you believe in god. You're just not sure what you're talking about is all. You'll find faith soon."

Well, I've spoken to her before (we share the same routine on the bus it seems) and she's actually a very nice and mostly polite and caring person. She just doesn't understand atheism at all.

I don't think many people realize how a lack of understanding creates hatred.

 

[KeepTheFaith15]

yea well raging atheist, and you think your non-belief in god isnt annoying?? you must think your better then others cause thats what your attitude makes me think, my faith in god is perfectly good standing on it's own, you have no right to judge me because you dont know me and you dont know my beliefs therefor by judging me i guess you think it makes you a better person.yea right. well see on judgement day,when you see GOD'S face before you, if youll stand up for your actions, more like you'll be on your face crying like a baby, we all mess up and we all make mistakes and your foolish for judging us. and if youll excuse me i'd rather spend my time worshipping god on my hands in knees rather then fighting with you, discussions over.

 

[strathyboy]

Originally posted by crazyfingers

I think that your perception might be tainted by your location. Generally Canada is seen as a much more hospitable place to be an atheist than the US.

I guess I'll just have to take your word on this one. Where I live, as well as in several internet forums including this one, the only examples of discrimination and hatred I've seen are against religious folks, usually Christians.
It's annoying to no end the disrespect I receive at other forums (which are populated primarily by Americans) whenever I announce that I am a Christian. Immediately it is assumed that I have no sense of logic or reason, and am incapable of engaging in a debate.
These are the reasons why I was skeptical about your claim that atheists were discriminated against.

 

[Gunny]

I honestly believe that the majority of people could care less if one chooses to be an atheist.

Someone who professes non-belief is a smaller target for individuals who want to judge an individual's belief system and all its attending characteristics.

What is one to say to the atheist? Well, you don't believe in any God, Creator or Supreme being? Response: No, I don't.

Not much a critical thinking person can do with that. It's cut and dried.

A Christian can be verbally challenged on countless areas. The Holy Bible we believe in. Allot of information contained within the Bible is used relentlessly by non-Christians to refute the validity of Christianity.

The so-called fallen Christians are held up to other Christians by non-Christians as the poster children of Christian duplicity, hypocrisy and contradiction.

History is utilized by non-Christians to once again show the hypocrisy and contradiction that the non-Christians love to proudly proclaim.

There are so many, many more ways the Christian is challenged by the non-Christian, concerning what they believe, the list could go on, ad infinitum

Sort of like a turkey shoot.


GySgt James

 

[Raging Atheist]

Originally posted by gunnysgt
There are so many, many more ways the Christian is challenged by the non-Christian, concerning what they believe, the list could go on, ad infinitum

Sort of like a turkey shoot.


GySgt James

I would tend to agree, gunny. Atheists are always looking for evidence that points to their "righteousness". In my mind, there are two reasons for that.

1) We're a silent minority. It is only on these boards that atheists bother voicing their opinion. Does that ever happen in real life? No way... would be torn apart...

2) We base our anti-faith ON facts and so it strengthens us when we find more facts. The Christian, on the other hand, doesn't really have any use of facts or validity to justify himself. He simply believes, and no carbon dating or logic can convince him otherwise. Thus, it is a NECESSITY for us, and an option for the Christian...

good points though...

 

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally posted by crazyfingers
Hateful column

Wow what a dummy.

I just have to wonder how many of them have seen an atom. No, not a picture of an atom -- there are paintings of God, too -- but how many of them, with their own eyes have seen an atom, or an electron or a quark?

I bet this deep thinker has never been to Nepal, but he'd tell you the peak of Mt. Everest is the highest point above sea level on earth. How could he possibly know such a thing!

Maybe one or two of them have seen an atom or an electron, but, so far as I know, no one has ever seen a quark or any of the tinier atomic elements.

I assume "element" here means fundamental particle. You have to wonder about somebody that refers to fundamental particles as "elements." And he's apparently unaware that scientists at CERN in Switzerland produced and witnessed a fourth state of matter nearly two years ago, quark-gluon plasma.

Obviously no one has ever directly observed an electron either, but I doubt this guy is writing his boneheaded column with a chisel and a stone tablet. Although I wouldn't be suprised if he was.

In fact, scientists only know that those incredibly small bits of matter or electrical charge or whatever exist because that's the only way they can explain how other parts of the atom react.

Actually it doesn't really matter whether they "exist" or not so long as they explain, predict, and retrodict phenomena according to atomic theory.

I hate to break the news to them, but that is something like, on a different plane, a Christian looking at a flower or hearing a bird and saying, "There's proof that God exists."

By the same token I suppose he might point to a BM swishing around in the lavatory and say the same thing. But he probably wouldn't.

What a dreary and pointless column. Quark ergo God. Brilliant.

Oh and KeepTheFaith15, excellent rants there. One can easily identify the Christian love and compassion with which you're oozing.

 

[Gunny]

Originally posted by Raging Atheist

We base our anti-faith ON facts and so it strengthens us when we find more facts.

Christians born again of God's Spirit base faith on spiritual truth contained within the Holy Bible.

As Christians we believe by the power of the Holy Spirit(the same Holy Spirit that rasied Jesus from the dead along with many others mentioned in the Bible) that God's Word is exactly what it claims to be. Not what anyman claims it to be but what it claims about itself thoughout OT and NT.

Perfect

Inerrant

Authoritative


The more the Holy Spirit filled Christian studies scripture the stronger our faith becomes just as yours(anti-faith) does with your acquisition of facts.


GySgt James