Teacher: I Don't Like Shakespeare Because He's White

[SuperCloud]

Excerpts from a rough draft I submitted (year 2006) for a college class. The paper is titled Hamlet "To Be."

Jacqueline Rose in her essay on Hamlet notes that T.S. Eliot once described the play Hamlet as 'the Mona Lisa of Literature' (156). I don't intend to contest either Rose or Eliot on this part, certainly the ages have proven people's fascination with Shakespeare's Hamlet to be a timeless edifice of compelling drama, ambiguity, and work of oral beauty, perhaps in its own right mirroring that of the oil on canvas work The Mona Lisa. My interest, and my intent in this essay, will be to demonstrate the character Hamlet's relation to purgatory, revenge, madness, and the meaning of life.

 

[SuperCloud]

^And (part of same rough draft).

"There's a divinity that shapes our ends, Rough-hew them how we will" (Act 5, Scene 2, lines 10-11). The search for meaning in life permeates the course of the play Hamlet through the character Prince Hamlet who famously questions to himself whether it is better to exist or not exist. Hamlet himself is a character who is sensitive, sensitive to ideas and notions, notions of love and truth, this gives him the potential to be a great lover or a horrible enemy, but it is also a fragile aspect of him:

Yea, from the table of my memory
I'll wipe away all trivial fond records,
All saws of books, all forms, all pressures past
That youth and observation copied there,
And they commandment all alone shall live
Within the book and volume of my brain,
Unmixed with baser matter. Yes, by heaven
O most pernicious woman!
O villain, villain, smiling, damned villain!
My tables--meet it is I set it down
That one may smile, and smile, and be villain.
At least I am sure it may be so in Denmark
(Act 1, Scene 5, lines 99-110)
​

Prince Hamlet is saying here to King Hamlet the ghost that he means to put his mind to it to remember him his father, and to mark that it is his uncle that is a villain, and on his part to revenge his father, and so it shall be in Denmark! The ability of him to become a horrible enemy is present in these remarks. That he can be led so far into murderous rage by the ghost of his father, to whom he may not even be certain is a demon and not his father, lends to evidence of an element of fragility in him due to his sensitive nature.

 

[SuperCloud]

From a paper (on work by Shakespeare) I submitted titled: From Italianate To Nubian.

I think my teacher may have kept this paper as one of the example papers to be used by future students. If I remember correctly.

The whole of Shakepeare's sonnet 130 is about a dark woman. Her darkness has duality, she is both dark in personality and in character as she is in skin complexion and color. This dark lady is beautiful and all-consuming to his desire.

She marked the above portion of my paper (other portions as well) for grammatical mistakes.

Both the bottom couplets of Shakespeare's sonnets 131 and 132 speak of a woman's blackness. Shakespeare's uses this masterfully to speak at different times in different ways of either this woman's black-hearted character or of her radiant physical black beauty; here in the thirteenth line of 132 he says, "Then will I swear beauty herself is black..." Both sonnet 131 and 132 (Mowat and Werstine 271-273) have interpretative bearing on sonnet 130's dark woman, and the love and addiction the narrator has for her. Marvin Hunt in his essay "Be Dark But Not Too Dark: Shakespeare's Dark Lady as a Sign of Color" states "Typically, aesthetic depictions of blackness, especially in the sonnet tradition, have been viewed in the context of the ancient tradition of praising the beauty of black women, originating in the maiden of the Song of Solomon who tells the daughters of Jerusalem, 'I am black but comely.'" (379)

 

[SuperCloud]

Finally, let's look at the other book of Iceberg Slim I was referring to earlier in this thread. Again, a long time since I've read this book (over 2 decades). But I do recall Iceberg writing about the cross-dressing homosexual character with a lot of empathy. Not hatred and prejudice.

Albeit, Iceberg as I recall, viewed the homosexuality (all homosexuality actually) of his cross-dressing character as a sickness. But a "sickness" akin to say... having cancer. In other words the homosexual character is to be pitied like a friend or loved one living with cancer. As opposed to a person to be hated, beaten, and killed.



So, take some reviewers opinions on the book:



http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/mama-black-widow-iceberg-slim/1100879975?ean=9781936399208

Editorial Reviews
Publishers Weekly - Publisher's Weekly
A pimp who began writing in prison, Slim (Pimp: Story of My Life) filled his stories with the intricacies of pimping, drug dealing, numbers running and all manner of urban hustling, and between the mid-1960s and the mid '70s became the bestselling black novelist in American history. Now Old School Books has reissued his remarkable fictional memoir of a Chicago drag queen coming of age during the 1930s and '40s. At its core is the archetypal African American story: Otis Tilson's family moves from the rural South to the urban promised land of Chicago only to find more racism, abysmal slums and demeaning, low-paying jobs. Unable to provide for his family, Otis's father declines into alcoholism while the family founders, with Otis's doomed sisters and brother drifting into prostitution and petty crime. Meanwhile, the secret gay life that sets Otis apart from them is an endless nightmare of rapes, beatings and failed attempts at heterosexual love. It ain't pretty, but Slim's bracing ghetto melodrama and famously histrionic voice ("But she hesitated... for one hellish, destructive fragment of a pounding, torturous instant!") capture a core of unsentimental truth not just about homosexuality in the ghetto but also about the myths and travails of masculinity itself. (July)

http://www.amazon.com/Mama-Black-Widow-Iceberg-Slim/dp/1936399199

Review

''Remarkable . . . It ain't pretty, but Slim's bracing ghetto melodrama and famously histrionic voice capture a core of unsentimental truth not just about homosexuality in the ghetto but also about the myths and travails of masculinity itself.'' --Publishers Weekly --This text refers to the Audio CD edition.

Gritty as all get out

By bowery boy on April 11, 2006

Format: Mass Market Paperback

This is a very graphic and gritty novel but not for the squeamish, faint of heart or those who want a happy ending because a happy ending you're not going to get. A friend told me to give this a try and I must say it was probably one of the most nailbiting page turning protrayals of inner city 1930s black urban life. I seriously could not put it down as much as I wanted to at some points.

The story is about Otis Tilson, otherwise known as Sally or Tilly by his cross dressing pals or Sweet Pea by the arachnoid mother of the title.

The Tilsons, a cotton picking family living on a plantation in the South, come into a windfall from a family member "up North" and pack up their bags and move to a 1930s Chicago ghetto where racism, drugs, prostitution, violence and police brutality run rampant and unchecked.

A wake up to reality...

By C. Lewis on September 22, 2010

Format: Mass Market Paperback Verified Purchase

...of what black Americans have had to endure in this country. Coming from a white woman that has always had very close African American friends and family and never really understood the deep seeded hatred many black folks have toward their history with white folks.

I was born in 1970 and always seen white/black as equal perhaps because I've always felt us as such. But this book really took me to a place where I could recognize the oppression of black folks and what a nightmare, hellish experience for so many in the early 1900's. Beck takes you right there.

A very gritty, sad and tragic book but for some reason one of my favorites. I liked this one much more than Pimp. I'm looking forward to Trick Baby.

Mama Black Widow: A Story of Souths Black Underworld

By delaineg on July 12, 2013

Format: Kindle Edition Verified Purchase

Read this book 30-40 years ago and misplaced my copy of it (probably still in the house somewhere) It was a VERY good read, so I decided to get it again. Gives interesting insight to one mans' life growing up in the south and his family migrating to one of the northern states, and their struggles along the way and after they get there. This author been long dead, but he wrote some very interesting books that will always be in my collection, and I do recommend, if you like this genre.

4Not For the Faint of Heart

ByMs Silkon February 8, 2015

Format: Kindle Edition

Iceberg Slim tells the story of a family plagued with so many of the horrors that plague the urban neighborhoods. Poverty, prostitution, violence, murder, drug deals, and grittiness that few are able to explain in a way that others can understand are easily visualized as Iceberg Slim spins this tale. A homosexual young man is struck with the difficult question of whether the way his mother has treated him is the cause of his inability to become aroused with a woman. He struggles to grasp the understanding of her actions, actions that have led to death and distance within the family. When life has wreaked such havoc that it's only him and his mother left, a mother who manipulates everything in her power to keep him close, he finds the need to escape her grasp.

There were times where the story was a bit drawn out, places that might have been trimmed a bit. Otherwise, this is a great depiction of life in the 'hood, a life that few people will ever experience or understand and that no one should ever live.

 

[seashale76]

Apropo:
Despite holding an English degree and describing herself as voracious reader, Dusbiber’s desire to purge the dusty old Bard from her classroom is partly based on her own difficulties reading him. She confesses that she has a “personal disinterest in reading stories written in an early form of the English language that I cannot always easily navigate.”

It's as I suspected. This is a case of the teacher being functionally illiterate. How she managed to obtain an English degree and then was allowed to go on to teach English is a sad commentary on our educational system.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

It's as I suspected. This is a case of the teacher being functionally illiterate. How she managed to obtain an English degree and then was allowed to go on to teach English is a sad commentary on our educational system.

Yeah I am pretty sure there is no way to get around Shakespeare if you want an english degree. It is like trying to get a math degree and not knowing how to do algebra.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

A whole course on Shakespeare was a required class when I got my B.A. in English.

 

[grandvizier1006]

Finally, let's look at the other book of Iceberg Slim I was referring to earlier in this thread. Again, a long time since I've read this book (over 2 decades). But I do recall Iceberg writing about the cross-dressing homosexual character with a lot of empathy. Not hatred and prejudice.

Albeit, Iceberg as I recall, viewed the homosexuality (all homosexuality actually) of his cross-dressing character as a sickness. But a "sickness" akin to say... having cancer. In other words the homosexual character is to be pitied like a friend or loved one living with cancer. As opposed to a person to be hated, beaten, and killed.



So, take some reviewers opinions on the book:



http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/mama-black-widow-iceberg-slim/1100879975?ean=9781936399208



http://www.amazon.com/Mama-Black-Widow-Iceberg-Slim/dp/1936399199

Ok, listen, I misjudged you, I'm sorry. If you don't mind, I'd like to continue this at some other time. There's a lot I could say, but basically I have Asperger's syndrome, empathy is not exactly a strong suit. I thought your background growing up had to do with gay sex and drug-dealing, which was why I assumed you liked the book because it was like a story of your own life, or similar enough to your own. I didn't know you were a marine or a boxer, and in light of that thank you for your service.

I'll talk to you in a private message if you prefer, but quite frankly I'll say that as a white person that's been a bit too well-off I kind of get annoyed by collegiate liberal narratives about privilege and the evil white man and whatnot. I didn't create the racist stuff, my ancestors did. I thought this book was that sort of thing. I still don't think I'd personally like it, but I apologize. If it's any consolation, I watched the boondocks up until season 4 and live in mississppi, so I'm not entirely unfamiliar with the black narrative. I don't like it anymore than you do, but quite frankly I'm just one person and I can't fix much. Obama couldn't.

My life has been hard too, and I've had struggles as well, they just manifest themselves differently. Also, I'm only 20 so I don't exactly know everything.

Finally, the iced lettuce thing wasn't mockery, I sincerely forgot the guy's name. I changed it to iceberg later, I think.

And I don't particularly love Shakespeare either, I just thought you were being like the woman we were originally talking about and being disrespectful to it because it didn't talk about minority struggles.

 

[Mrs_RC]

It would be nice if the 'comedies' were actually funny. : )

History, fine. Tragedy, fine. Comedy ... really? Slightly fewer people die, and that is supposed to make it funny?

They are sooooo funny if you see them as plays. There's slapstick humour and witticisms in all of them. If you've only ever read them as books then I would understand.
But then I would also worry that you've never seen them performed and judged them out of context.

 

[Catherineanne]

They are sooooo funny if you see them as plays. There's slapstick humour and witticisms in all of them. If you've only ever read them as books then I would understand.
But then I would also worry that you've never seen them performed and judged them out of context.

If I have an opinion of Shakespeare that you disagree with, you assume I have never seen them as plays? Is it impossible to have a different opinion otherwise, do you think?

Others have mentioned English degrees; I have an English degree.

I have seen (and read) a lot of Shakespeare, mostly performed by the RSC, but other companies as well. I won't list them all, but there are a lot.

Shakespeare 'comedy' is often cruel, dark and tragic. It mocks unfortunate or afflicted people and treats them with a cruelty that is difficult to reconcile. Malvolio, for example, is not an attractive character, but does he really deserve to be treated the way he is? Would we really consider that funny if we saw it happening around us?

 

[Catherineanne]

Then you've never found yourself on the wrong side of the Internet. Count yourself lucky.

I do tend to avoid the dark side* if I can.

*metaphor deriving from the moon, rather than race.

 

[SuperCloud]

Ok, listen, I misjudged you, I'm sorry. If you don't mind, I'd like to continue this at some other time. There's a lot I could say, but basically I have Asperger's syndrome, empathy is not exactly a strong suit. I thought your background growing up had to do with gay sex and drug-dealing...

I grew up in middle-class background. Albeit, I spent half that portion in the "ghetto" over my black extended family's house. Spending the night. Visiting. Etc. It was not to far from were I was raised anyways. Maybe 10 minutes on bicycle to get there.

In general, I would have been considered a square then. To some extent I'm still considered one now. So, you are dealing with issues of perception and relativity now. I appreciate "Chicago Steppin" but I don't myself know how to "Chicago Step" (or "Step" as it's also known), therefore, I am a "square." Relative to those that do. Within the perception of a section of Black-Americans.

It doesn't help much that I now have some college education (Oh, please, you Southern blacks that are about to hit the "report button." Contrary to what you think every city is not in the South with black people that have a strong culture of the HBCU's. Like many of these whites, some of you never even knew what "Chicago Steppin" is and when you hear the word "Step" you think of the black college frats that do their strong stomping dances). That's okay for a black female, but for a black male it's regarded as pretty square. That does not mean going to college is held in disdain. It's just viewed as the opposite of making a commitment to the streets.

You see... knowing things, seeing things, even experiencing things does not necessarily make you "hip" or "gangster" in my hood or in the whole of the North Side of Milwaukee. I feel confident in saying it's the same thing in Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, Cleveland etc.

Yes, as an adult I've backed up a partner and pulled a sawed-off shotgun on a family, outside, had people sliding on porches on their bellies. I've done a number of things. But I'm still a square. That's just what you do where I'm from (backing up your partner). And doing it makes you reliable, not hip, or gangster, and does not diminish your squareness.

which was why I assumed you liked the book because it was like a story of your own life, or similar enough to your own. I didn't know you were a marine or a boxer, and in light of that thank you for your service.

I grew up middle-class. Not in the ghetto. Mind you... black middle-class neighborhoods in the Midwest often have lots of noise, traffic, robberies, rapes, and today gun violence too. But there are some differences. One being you're very, very, very unlikely to see two families on the same street (or one that is one or two blocks or so down from the street from the other) in mass fist fights out on the block. Or today it can be two homes across the street from one another shooting at each others houses (but I've only heard of that on the news and only once). That doesn't happen in middle-class black neighborhoods. Doesn't mean someone might not walk up to you as you stand on the corner and from behind you pull out a .38 or 9mm pistol and shoot you in the back of the head. You'd have to have some beef with someone for that though.

Iceberg had a much different life than mine. His was not square and his was steeped in the ghettos. I went to Catholic school and had a father that was an armed Federal Agent that investigated criminals, carried out raids on violent gangs, went undercover etc. And I spent part of my life around the German-American white side of my family. We used to visit some of them in the country (Wisconsin).

And I'm not sure I'd label myself a boxer. I think one needs more time in boxing than I had to be rightfully labeled a boxer. As for the Corps... no need to thank me. The Corps thanked me every 2 weeks when they gave me a paycheck. I didn't enlist out of the kindness of my heart or love of country. I got to carry assault rifles along with the potential opportunity to hunt man and kill man without going to jail. What more can you ask for? Being American or part of the American military you are almost certain to carry out the hunt of your prey in his own backyard. We don't fight wars on mainland USA. Protected by too much bodies of water. And up and down from us we got Canada and Mexico to use as human shields. When we hunt man we go on an African safari. And we bring billions of dollars of equipment with us. It is no fair fight. Semper Fi.

...so I'm not entirely unfamiliar with the black narrative. I don't like it anymore than you do, but quite frankly I'm just one person and I can't fix much. Obama couldn't.

Eh, you and I both. But it won't stop neither white or Black-Americans of accusing you of creating the drama by not holding their hands and pretending along with them that what is in fact reality is not reality.

But I'm 43 years-old and tired of playing pretend with Americans.

My life has been hard too, and I've had struggles as well, they just manifest themselves differently. Also, I'm only 20 so I don't exactly know everything.

Everyone has struggles. And material poverty by the way... is not the worst thing. That's an American and Western European fictional story. Emotional poverty is far more cruel and destructive.

You have black African families and some Mexican families that come to the USA in material poverty. But they are incredibly rich emotionally. And their emotional health, emotional prosperity, strong families, propels them to "success" in the USA.

Therefore, the irony is this. For some it would have been better they be born in Africa or Mexico and then come to the USA in all that great emotional wealth, than as they were born in to USA into emotional abject poverty within either their emotionally dead families or emotionally perverted families.

And I don't particularly love Shakespeare either, I just thought you were being like the woman we were originally talking about and being disrespectful to it because it didn't talk about minority struggles.

Really, I brought up Iceberg I think, because I was mentally recalling or mentally reflecting on the popularity of black urban fiction today among young blacks. Actually, a lot of Black-American women my age read that stuff too. I mean... that's the only genre some of them seem to read. Now, that's among those women with no college education. Those black women with some or a lot of college educations read a more diverse genre of literature.

When I'm talking black urban literature I'm talking about stuff written today too. Most of it is written today. I go in the public libraries and they have whole shelves dedicated just to that. The Milwaukee Journal wrote an article about the explosion of authors--just in Milwaukee--maybe 2 or 3 years ago. Of course, most authors don't get published. But then there is self publishing today too.

And yeah... some of this stuff (if not a lot of it) is written by Black-American female authors. So far as I can tell--I haven't read any of it (other than browsing over back covers of paperbacks)--it goes by much of the same themes. Young black woman meets a "good guy" black thug (probably dark skinned because that's what's most popular among black women today) that's a big time drug dealer. He's a tough guy. But she knows that deep down he has a heart of gold and wants to bring that out. Et cetera, et cetera. They all live materially lavish etc.

I get the impression most these authors never experienced the "streets" the way Iceberg or I have. And they like these rapper Rick Ross narratives. I could be wrong. But that's the impression I get. Obama will listen to them. I won't. Some of them might "snitch" and hit the "report button" and the moderators on this forum will listen to them. I won't.

Iceberg was more akin to the incarcerated Larry Hoover of Chicago than to the rapper Rick Ross. What I'm trying to say is a lot of black urban lit--to my impression--is akin to the rapper Rick Ross portrayal of the streets and its heroes. Which are about as reflective of truth, regarding their fictional ghetto heroes, as every Republican in Congress and the White House are sinless saints and 100% heterosexuals etc.

 

[Billnew]

Just getting into this thread.
So, if a white teacher had said this about a black writer or any black person's work in any form, would they be fired for racism?
Then why isn't this teacher fired?
I have no problem with her saying:
"I don't like Shakespeare because he's hard to read. Because it's old and not relatable." Either is a perfectly good reason.
" I don't like Shakespeare because he's white." is pure racism.

I believe the only reason this person still has a job is because of tenure and their race. I'm pretty sure tenure wouldn't save a white teacher from this racism.

 

[keith99]

Just getting into this thread.
So, if a white teacher had said this about a black writer or any black person's work in any form, would they be fired for racism?
Then why isn't this teacher fired?
I have no problem with her saying:
"I don't like Shakespeare because he's hard to read. Because it's old and not relatable." Either is a perfectly good reason.
" I don't like Shakespeare because he's white." is pure racism.

I believe the only reason this person still has a job is because of tenure and their race. I'm pretty sure tenure wouldn't save a white teacher from this racism.

Bolding mine.

Did you ever bother to read the link provided in the first post? It says in highlighted text in the first paragraph that she is white!

Oops!

 

[MrJDSmith]

I do not care for Shakespeare because it gives people ideas.

 

[DaisyDay]

A good writer should be able to empathize with the protagonist of his or her story.

Humbert Humbert?

 

[FreeSpirit74]

^^^ No, not that one!

 

[SuperCloud]

Humbert Humbert?

I had to google that name up. Sure, why not Humbert Humbert, too.

I will tell you though. Several months ago I read a great non-fiction book. The author was Jeff Hobbs. He knew personally the subject of his book. But more importantly I believe Jeff Hobbs has a grasp of Black-America more than most Black-Americans. Which is interesting because he is a white guy that grew up completely outside of the urban black reality.

I probably shouldn't tell you anything about the book but I will. And this really surprised me. Not a one of the black or Puerto Rican characters I can recall, after graduating Yale, became "successful." Well... one did but only after doing residential construction and having a nervous breakdown. Then he went to Yale and told them either they had to help him or he would be dead in x amount of time. They got him into a graduate program that pipelines psychiatrists.

This is the only book I have ever given as a gift. I ordered a book from Amazon and had it sent to a friend in prison (books have to come from Amazon or bookstores for Federal prisons to allow inmates to have them). I ordered another one and gave it to an older person I know.

Amazon reviews: http://www.amazon.com/Short-Tragic-...rds=the+short+and+tragic+life+of+robert+peace

 

[Mrs_RC]

If I have an opinion of Shakespeare that you disagree with, you assume I have never seen them as plays? Is it impossible to have a different opinion otherwise, do you think?

Others have mentioned English degrees; I have an English degree.

I have seen (and read) a lot of Shakespeare, mostly performed by the RSC, but other companies as well. I won't list them all, but there are a lot.

Shakespeare 'comedy' is often cruel, dark and tragic. It mocks unfortunate or afflicted people and treats them with a cruelty that is difficult to reconcile. Malvolio, for example, is not an attractive character, but does he really deserve to be treated the way he is? Would we really consider that funny if we saw it happening around us?

Hi Catherineanne. You may feel differently about Shakespeare than I do, but for me he describes the human condition just beautifully. Sometimes it's dark as you say, and cruel. But so often funny and distant and bonkers.

 

[Mrs_RC]

And gosh! I've skimmed through a lot of the other post.
Stop taking yourselves so seriously Shakespeare people!

It seems that a lot of our American friends seem to need to 'prove themselves'. Stop. Just see or read the plays for the silliness that so much of them are...
​