Teacher: I Don't Like Shakespeare Because He's White

[FreeSpirit74]

Agreed. In addition I doubt she fully comprehends or understands Shakespeare.

Which means that reading him with her as a teacher will leave students thinking he is a total bore. I had to take a Shakespeare course for my B.A., and it was the English Dept. Head (who is now the Academic Dean) who taught the class. He made the readings interesting, like having us watch parts of Looking for Richard when we read "Richard III", or the movie version of "Henry V." I also had him for a course where we read literature based on the King Arthur legends... I don't think I need mention which movie we watched for that class!

 

[HonestTruth]

So she looks at it from a purely racial angle; therefore she is a racist.

She questions Eurocentric emphasis in American classrooms and lack of inclusive studies.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

Apropo:
Despite holding an English degree and describing herself as voracious reader, Dusbiber’s desire to purge the dusty old Bard from her classroom is partly based on her own difficulties reading him. She confesses that she has a “personal disinterest in reading stories written in an early form of the English language that I cannot always easily navigate.”

*roll eyes*

Then maybe she should have put more time and energy into purging that difficulty. I have an English degree myself, and I would have hated having her for a teacher. Not when the entire English dept. at my alma mater held Ph.D degrees, and the Dept. Head did his dissertation on Old English.

We need to get more students back off of the electronics and back into reading. Her attitude is not going to help any of them gain an appreciation for real literature.

 

[HonestTruth]

Education in and of itself is of no value if society does not reform and give opportunities for many to utilize it to advance their lot in life. I, too, have an English degree which I got with high honors. In fact the department chairman called me his best student, ever. I got still another degree but only got as far as being a floor sweeper. If I were alone in this type of deal, I'd say the problem was me. But I've come across a number of others who have had similar experiences.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

The language difference between Elizabethan and New English is easily overcome by watching productions on the stage/film before attempting to read them.

Or being lucky to have a teacher who actually enjoys both reading and teaching the literature. I was very lucky in that regard.

 

[Cearbhall]

Where in that video does she specifically say she will not teach Shakespeare because he is white?

I think it's pretty obvious that the article is biased and isn't interested in reporting her views constructively to open a discussion. I still don't agree with leaving Shakespeare out of a US curriculum.

Despite holding an English degree and describing herself as voracious reader, Dusbiber’s desire to purge the dusty old Bard from her classroom is partly based on her own difficulties reading him. She confesses that she has a “personal disinterest in reading stories written in an early form of the English language that I cannot always easily navigate.”

Ugh. I would hope that anyone with an English degree would know that Shakespeare is early modern English. At least she didn't actually call it Middle English or Old English. I've heard that before.

 

[HonestTruth]

I think it's pretty obvious that the article is biased and isn't interested in reporting her views constructively to open a discussion. I still don't agree with leaving Shakespeare out of a US curriculum.

You are correct.

Note how she was immediately branded as a racist by people who obviously did not pay any attention to what she actually said or meant. I saw this same attack used on her in another forum. Obviously the link deliberately misquoted her to inflame people and some took the bait.

 

[KarateCowboy]

I think it's pretty obvious that the article is biased and isn't interested in reporting her views constructively to open a discussion. I still don't agree with leaving Shakespeare out of a US curriculum.

Yes. It is a bad title. But, I usually do not alter the article's title.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

Education in and of itself is of no value if society does not reform and give opportunities for many to utilize it to advance their lot in life. I, too, have an English degree which I got with high honors. In fact the department chairman called me his best student, ever. I got still another degree but only got as far as being a floor sweeper. If I were alone in this type of deal, I'd say the problem was me. But I've come across a number of others who have had similar experiences.

IMO an English degree is best if you are going to actually teach, or do something in the writing field. My first choice of major was Spanish, but they didn't have enough teachers to teach the higher level courses, beyond Basic, which I had already taken at the college I transferred from. I was also going for NYS Teaching Certification for VI Education besides (which didn't pan out). Since English was my best subject in school, I went with that, and got my Honors tassel on the basis of some very high course grades.

 

[KarateCowboy]

You are correct.

Note how she was immediately branded as a racist by people who obviously did not pay any attention to what she actually said or meant. I saw this same attack used on her in another forum. Obviously the link deliberately misquoted her to inflame people and some took the bait.

The title is not a quote of her but a description. It is important to note that racists generally camouflage their poison by mixing it up with other things that have a non-racial element.

 

[Cearbhall]

Note how she was immediately branded as a racist by people who obviously did not pay any attention to what she actually said or meant. I saw this same attack used on her in another forum. Obviously the link deliberately misquoted her to inflame people and some took the bait.

She did kind of dig a hole for herself by saying he's just a "dead white guy." That's a direct quote. She could have been more constructive herself.

 

[HonestTruth]

No surprise that a right wing source uses that tactic to inflame.

 

[HonestTruth]

She did kind of dig a hole for herself by saying he's just a "dead white guy." That's a direct quote. She could have been more constructive herself.

Taking quotes out of context only makes it worse. But as we have seen, many people are quick to ignore the rest of her words while eagerly labeling her as racist.

 

[JustOneWay]

Wow. The teacher had so many reasons to dislike Shakespeare, yet all we can discuss is some tangent about him being white.

Here then, is my argument: If we only teach students of color, as I have been fortunate to do my entire career, then it is far past the time for us to dispense with our Eurocentric presentation of the literary world. Conversely, if we only teach white students, it is our imperative duty to open them up to a world of diversity through literature that they may never encounter anywhere else in their lives. I admit that this proposal, that we leave Shakespeare out of the English curriculum entirely, will offend many.

 

[HonestTruth]

All the teacher is saying in a round about way is, let's be more inclusive to our approach to the study of literature.

A good idea, indeed. And while we are at it, let us also teach kids about literature and art forms from every corner of the world, not just from Europe.

 

[KarateCowboy]

All the teacher is saying in a round about way is, let's be more inclusive to our approach to the study of literature.

A good idea, indeed. And while we are at it, let us also teach kids about literature and art forms from every corner of the world, not just from Europe.

Yes yes, be inclusive by excluding the most prominent author in our culture's history, at least partly because he's white.

 

[SuperCloud]

England/the UK and the US retained close connections during those 300 years; it isn't as if we split and never spoke again.

And my black grandfather used to say that Country Music is the white man's Blues.

So, ought American high school musical programs focus exclusively on country music and I don't know... classical music but ignore Blues, Jazz, Rap, House Music, Pop and so on?

I've read some Shakespeare. What has it done for me? I've read at least two books by Iceberg Slim too. His famous autobiography Pimp: The Story of My Life had at least as much dramatic impact on me that Shakespeare. Truth be told... Iceberg's book educated me more about my America than anything from Shakespeare. And Shakespeare was no where near as racist or anti-Catholic as say... almost a centuries worth of Southern Jim Crow in the USA.

Shakespeare has been viewed as possibly Catholic in an era of Catholic persecution in England. The conception of vengeance being more ruthless and pronounced by murdering a before he has a chance to confess his sins is culturally and doctrinally in keeping with a Catholic orientation of life in this world and after death.

The United States--even its Catholicism--is often more influenced by Calvinism.

But the USA is the size of a continent. England can be fitted into the State of California and certain aspects of American culture can shift across state and regional lines. The French and Spanish have left as dramatic--if not more--an influence on Louisiana. And I should include the Amerindians, Black-American slaves and free class Creoles, and even the Haitians that fled from Haiti during what was far more a monumental revolution (in Haiti) than that patrician revolt against the Crown of England called "The American Revolution" (which would not have succeeded without the help of the French, Spanish, and the black and mulatto Cuban soldiers under the Spanish Crown.)

To understand certain aspects of Chicago and Milwaukee life on the black streets, it is more enlightening to read Iceberg Slim than Shakespeare.

 

[SuperCloud]

Urban literature is back in vogue in Black-America. Albeit, a certain portion of it is poorly written according to some Black-American literary critics and professional writers. I haven't read any of the more modern stuff. Well... unless you count some stuff from the 1980s like Monster by Monster Kody Scott that former LA Crip member.

But if literature is to help one's mind better understand their own environment. If that is one aspect to it. Then hands down Iceberg's Slim's "Pimp" autobiography (regarded as a classic in urban Black-America) is far more important in understanding the culture and tradition of where Pimp Snooky came from, especially in terms of his craft or skill, and this most Milwaukee story (Chicago and Milwaukee are supposedly considered "the vortex" of pimping in the USA).

Iceberg Slim actually first began pimping in Milwaukee. That's what he basically says in his autobiography. He became big time when he moved to Chicago to a much bigger league and also where he was mentored under a more skilled pimp.




http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/...-to-20-years-in-prison-vm4vpvv-147413205.html


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceberg_Slim


http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/pimp-iceberg-slim/1100247438?ean=9781451617139

From 3rd link:

Overview
The book that brought black literature to the streets is back to show the Hip-Hop generation what it’s all about, where they came from.

A blueprint. A bible. What Sun Tzu’s Art of War was to ancient China, Pimp is to the streets. This is the story of Iceberg Slim’s life as he saw, felt, tasted, and smelled it. A trip through hell by the one man who lived to tell the tale. The dangers of jail, addiction, and death that are still all too familiar.

By telling the story of one man’s struggles and triumphs in an underground world, Pimp shows us the game doesn’t change, it just has a different swagger.

 

[KarateCowboy]

Truth be told... Iceberg's book educated me more about my America than anything from Shakespeare. And Shakespeare was no where near as racist or anti-Catholic as say... almost a centuries worth of Southern Jim Crow in the USA.

...

To understand certain aspects of Chicago and Milwaukee life on the black streets, it is more enlightening to read Iceberg Slim than Shakespeare.

And this is exactly why Shakespeare should be taught and not Iceberg Lettuce. Shakespeare's works are called timeless classics because they are timeless --meaning relevant to any era, not a specific one-- and speak universal truths about the human experience in a way to which people from Jamaica to Japan can relate. From your description, it seems Icecream Slim's work speaks to a very small segment of society living in cloistered urban settings during a specific period of time. Coincidentally, I grew up near Milwaukee and currently reside in the Chicago area. I've never heard of Iceberg Jim, but a quick read through the Amazon preview of "Mama Black Widow" tells me this is not timeless, far-reaching literature in the vein of Shakespeare or Steinbeck. My experience of Milwaukee and Chicago are not anything like this.

 

[SuperCloud]

And this is exactly why Shakespeare should be taught and not Iceberg Lettuce. Shakespeare's works are called timeless classics because they are timeless --meaning relevant to any era, not a specific one-- and speak universal truths about the human experience in a way to which people from Jamaica to Japan can relate. From your description, it seems Icecream Slim's work speaks to a very small portion of people living in cloistered urban settings during a specific period of time. Coincidentally, I grew up near Milwaukee and currently reside in the Chicago area. I've never heard of Iceberg Jim, but a quick read through the Amazon preview of "Mama Black Widow" tells me this is not timeless, far-reaching literature in the vein of Shakespeare or Steinbeck. My experience of Milwaukee and Chicago are not anything like this.

I see you are not part of the Hip Hop culture? You would be wrong. Stretching to California people like Ice T and Snoop Dog have an appreciation for Iceberg Slim. His books--including Donald Goines--are to Black-American urban literature what Shaft and Superfly are to film.

Also, when you say, "I grew up near Milwaukee..." we both know what that means. The City of Milwaukee itself is not anymore racially segregated than say... New York City. Not anymore than what I saw and experience in NYC the 2 times I visited. But the County of Milwaukee is hyper-segregated. Almost to the point of what one thinks of when thinking of the former Jim Crow South. Nearly all black people in the County of Milwaukee live in the City of Milwaukee. With most of those living on the North Side.

It was worse when I was younger. Today its been becoming less racially segregated--even around the County. The Near South Side of Milwaukee is now the most racially diverse area of the entire state of Wisconsin. It's pretty much what one thinks of when they imagine a diverse NYC or London. Although, possibly, neither the Near South Side of Milwaukee or NYC are as diverse as modern day London. (Speaking of which... Zadie Smith's book White Teeth would probably reflect modern day London a lot more than anything penned by Shakespeare.)

But in sum... you know as well as I do that in cultural terms... the gap between you and I is as far as the gap between a Frenchman and a Mexican. Minus the language because we both speak English (Er... maybe we share the same drinking culture too, as the whole of Wisconsin has a strong drinking culture).