TATOO'S - for CHRISTIANS ????

[probinson]

I already responded to your question in another post...perhaps you did not see it. As far as clipping the beard goes, I don't fully understand that particular verse so I am unable to give a clear yes or no in regards to sideburns. After studying several different opinions (especially from the Jewish perspective) on the subject, I have no opinion. I personally don't think that sideburns are what the scripture is talking about, you do. Oh well. Yet, you continued to hound me when I'd already answered you. I DON'T KNOW.

I'm not sure how asking a question a second time could be considered "hounding", but you did not answer me saying you did not know the first time I asked (I just went back and looked). Here's how you responded after I asked the question the first time;

How is it though that we can take two items from the list (shaving and tatooing) and say they don't matter but everything else on the list does? How are we coming to our conclusions as to what we can erase off the list of what God says "do not do"?
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This is what I objected to. Your assertion throughout this thread has been that people are erasing things off "the list". I then went on to explain that wasn't true; that most people aren't "picking and choosing" things off of a list in Leviticus that they find palatable to them, but rather they are compelled by the Love of God that leads and guides them.

I'm not ignoring it, I just don't have an answer. I already told you that in a previous post. Why force me to give an answer when I don't have one? I know you would not prefer that I make something up. If I don't know, I don't know, and I'll say so.

OK. You've made it abundantly clear in this post that you don't know. Duly noted.

I would tell them I don't know and then I would refer them to the same sites I found info on and let them do their own research and come to their own conclusions about what that verse is actually saying. Do not get tatoo's is a pretty clear verse though, there is no wondering if God meant pink tatoos, blue tatoos, large tatoos, or any other tatoos. It says "no tatoos".

Interestingly enough, the Amplified Bible says this in Isaiah 44 (emphasis added);

Isaiah 44:5 (AMP)
One will say, I am the Lord's; and another will call himself by the name of Jacob; and another will write [even brand or tattoo] upon his hand, I am the Lord's, and surname himself by the [honorable] name of Israel.
​

It seems odd that God would say this if He were as dead set against all tattoos as you seem to be implying.

Actually in its context, Leviticus 19 says no tattoo marks immediately after an admonishment not to cut oneself for the dead. Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable to believe that perhaps this has something to do with tattoos for the dead... but I digress.

Leviticus 19 contains a pretty big list of things not to do, from not reaping a harvest from the edge of your field to not wearing clothing woven of 2 different kinds of material. It also contains the instruction to not eat fruit from fruit trees you plant for 5 years. These are all in the list of don'ts, and are equally as clear as the instruction to not get a tattoo. Oddly enough, I've never heard anyone tell someone else that by eating the fruit from a tree they've planted before year 5 that they are in disobedience to God's commands.

I do not believe that Leviticus 19 is the baseline for what God doesn't want us to do. I believe it contains, as the NIV subtitle of the chapter indicates, "Various Laws" for a specific people and purpose.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Usually the Christians who already have tattoos are the ones who are most likely to say that Leviticus doesn't refer to them. The trouble is their attitude could always cause another to likewise stumble.

 

[LOCO]

Anyone here who is opposing tatoos put any fast food into the temple this week? How bout last week? The week before?

That seems a good place to start. After everyone has answered this, we'll move on to other things.

I don't do fast food. It just doesn't look appetising at all to me. When I do eat out I eat at proper restaurants that serve healthy foods that take longer than 5minutes to prepare.

 

[Faulty]

Not taking sides here, but if the getting of the tattoo's is lumped in with cutting the body for the dead in chapter 19, then why isn't it also lumped in with the similar command in chapter 21?

 

[lismore]

Sorry I missed the sarcasm.

np

 

[lismore]

Usually the Christians who already have tattoos are the ones who are most likely to say that Leviticus doesn't refer to them. The trouble is their attitude could always cause another to likewise stumble.

That's a fair point.

Romans 14:20
All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.

 

[Laura Phillips]

YES
They are great as a statement of where you've been and how far you've come, and some people will trust you more who might otherwise feel unwelcome in a church. plus they are cute. and tredny,. if you already have one why should it bother you>?

Probably been done b4. Please vote and comment as led..

Either YES, NO or NOT SURE

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I'm not sure how asking a question a second time could be considered "hounding", but you did not answer me saying you did not know the first time I asked (I just went back and looked). Here's how you responded after I asked the question the first time;

Pete, you first brought it up on your post #17 however, you did not pose it as a question that you expected me to answer.

I did make a ref to your comment in post #20 but did not go into my thoughts on it.

In your post #24 you asked a specific question regarding sideburns. In post #25 I answered. I did not specifically say "I don't know" but what I did say showed that I really had no opinion since I did not understand what marring the beard was anyway. I added there are several interpretaions on the meaning from ancient explanation to modern. I made no commitment to an opinion. Showing, in my opinion, that I had no opinion on it.

Your post #76 you bring it up again... That's 3 times now and you've added the word disingenuous. That's where, in my opinion, it become hounding.

In post #78 I spell it out I DON'T KNOW. Yet you still are calling me disinginuous and you tell me that you are not hounding me, when you asked 3 times (when I answered the first time, you just did not like my answer) and called me disingenuous.

There are other posters in this thead who believe God meant "don't" when He said it, why is it that you are only going after my posts? Is it because I have a strong opinion and I don't have an issue with the word "don't" when God says it? What part of "don't" do people not understand?

As far as all those "other" scriptures that you refer to goes, if God says "don't" then He means "don't, do not, nada, never". Period. Some of them I don't have the understanding of why God said don't, but he did.

Do I think people are disobeying God when they know He said "don't" on a particular subject and they do it anyway, Yes. I believe the same when HE says "do" and we don't. When you tell your kids "don't" or "do" do you expect them to do as you tell them? Do they get to debate with you over how long that "don't" or "do" is for? Do you have to tell them more than once for them to know that you meant it and lasts until you tell them differently ?

Do I think people are going to hell for getting tatoo's? No. But they are disobeying. I'm not always successful at obedience, but I'm trying to at least look it in the face when He shows it to me and respond with repentance and then obedience. Are we to teach others any less?

That's what I believe for me Pete. I'm not going to tell others though, they are free to do whatever they feel (except if what they feel agrees with God) when we are not. If you don't like it then stop reading my posts. If people ask me "should I get a tatoo" (after all that IS the subject of this thread), maybe instead of just saying "no" I will say, "here is the scripture where God says what He feels about it. Read it and then do what He says". God forbid that I should be disingenuous and have a strong opinion.

If you want my opinion on those "other" laws, start another thread and if I have an opinion I will give it. I'M NOT DISINGENUOUS..

Honestly, I'm tired of the arguing. Unless I find a scripture somewhere where God specifically says, "you know that law where I said I don't like tatoo's? Forget about it. Do what you want", I'm going to believe what I believe. No point in arguing anymore.

This is what I objected to. Your assertion throughout this thread has been that people are erasing things off "the list". I then went on to explain that wasn't true; that most people aren't "picking and choosing" things off of a list in Leviticus that they find palatable to them, but rather they are compelled by the Love of God that leads and guides them.

Pete, I have grown up in the church. All my life I've been taught this scripture here, this scripture there does not matter any more. Yet, when it came to tithe time the OT scriptures were being pulled out of the wall paper to get people to give their money. Of course this happened with other things too. OT does not matter, but it sure seemed to matter when they wanted to fleece the flock. I agree that "we here" are not necessarily the one's who pick and choose, but someone, somewhere did...my opinion. And the people (not everyone but as you can see by how many Christians think sex without marriage, sex changes, getting drunk, high, etc. is ok) are now just going by what they are told instead of actually doing the study themselves....again, my opinion.

Interestingly enough, the Amplified Bible says this in Isaiah 44 (emphasis added);

Isaiah 44:5 (AMP)
One will say, I am the Lord's; and another will call himself by the name of Jacob; and another will write [even brand or tattoo] upon his hand, I am the Lord's, and surname himself by the [honorable] name of Israel.
​

It seems odd that God would say this if He were as dead set against all tattoos as you seem to be implying.

As much as I love the Amplified Bible, they add words for emphasis, for added explanation. I'm not confident that God really said in that verse that people would tatoo themselves with His name. None of the other versions (I checked 5) implied they tatooed themselves. There are scriptures though where God say HE will tatoo His name on people. Personally, if I'm going to be tatooed, I'd rather God do it than me do it to myself. Him doing it is HIS signature. Me doing it is just me. My opinion, not to be implied as every one else must feel the same way.

Actually in its context, Leviticus 19 says no tattoo marks immediately after an admonishment not to cut oneself for the dead. Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable to believe that perhaps this has something to do with tattoos for the dead... but I digress.

I don't buy that explanation and find it reasonable only to those who want to convince themselves it's ok to do something God said "don't" to. My opinion.

Leviticus 19 contains a pretty big list of things not to do, from not reaping a harvest from the edge of your field to not wearing clothing woven of 2 different kinds of material. It also contains the instruction to not eat fruit from fruit trees you plant for 5 years. These are all in the list of don'ts, and are equally as clear as the instruction to not get a tattoo. Oddly enough, I've never heard anyone tell someone else that by eating the fruit from a tree they've planted before year 5 that they are in disobedience to God's commands.

I do not believe that Leviticus 19 is the baseline for what God doesn't want us to do. I believe it contains, as the NIV subtitle of the chapter indicates, "Various Laws" for a specific people and purpose.

I never said it was a baseline. I don't believe it's a baseline. The thread was about tatoo's, I looked for the scriptures on tatoo's, I shared them, and I gave my opinion on my opinion of the scripture. I added others scriptures to further show why I have the opinion that I do. To some that may be strong, but it is my opinion. That's all. I have many other opinions based on a great quantity of other scriptures. My opinions are not limited to just Leviticus or just the OT.

When I share an opinion I do try to back up my opinion with as much scripture as I can so as to show why I believe what I believe. Perhaps that can be intimidating. I do feel though, that if I don't do that then I am doing a disservice to whoever may be reading by not giving them enough scripture so they may form their own opinion. Whether it be the same as mine or not.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Here's something I found on Biblegateway.com. I searched the word "tatoo" and find it mentioned once in the NIV version and it was the Leviticus verse. Attached to the find were a couple of articles. I thought they were interesting.

Do Old Testament laws and restrictions still apply to us today?



Do Commandments On Tattoos and Hair Still Apply?

​

 

[FoundInGrace]

Perhaps the Leviticus verses refer more to those who self injure/cut themselves.
I personally think there is more similarity between the people in Leviticus who cut themselves to appease false gods when people had died, and those who cut themselves to appease their pain at the 'death' and 'sorrow' in their lives.

God loves those who self injure/cut their bodies with such incredible compassion and mercy.
perhaps it is to those tormented in such a way that the Leviticus verses apply more closely to today rather than those who cut themselves not out of pain/sorrow/appeasement but for decoration.

 

[probinson]

Honestly, I'm tired of the arguing.

Me too.

Have a good day.

 

[ivanthegood]

well considering todays christianity is adopting and incorperating and becoming as worldly as possible, i think christians should get as many tattoos as their skin can possibly hold, i like the horn implants also, kinda begs for who's behind this kind of art form, not to mention just a glance in a tattoo book leaves one wondering why any follower of Christ would want to partake of this tradition that goes back as far in history as the false religion that started it

 

[probinson]

Do Commandments On Tattoos and Hair Still Apply?
​

From the link above;

"...Rightly or wrongly, people judge by appearances. As Christians, we need to avoid doing anything that would cause others to be uncomfortable with the way we look, or would cause them to fail to recognize us as followers of Christ. This is particularly true when we are witnessing to non-Christians..."
​

This presupposes that there is a certain way to "look" (from outward appearance) like a Christian.

It makes me wonder when I read stuff like this if these people have ever read Jesus' admonishment to the Pharisees in Matthew 23. After all, it was the Pharisees that were concerned with outward appearances, and Jesus had some pretty strong words for them;

Matthew 23:25-26 (NIV)
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
​

 

[TasManOfGod]

Me too.

Have a good day.

but alas you cant help yourself

Do Commandments On Tattoos and Hair Still Apply?
​

From the link above;

"...Rightly or wrongly, people judge by appearances. As Christians, we need to avoid doing anything that would cause others to be uncomfortable with the way we look, or would cause them to fail to recognize us as followers of Christ. This is particularly true when we are witnessing to non-Christians..."
​

This presupposes that there is a certain way to "look" (from outward appearance) like a Christian.

It makes me wonder when I read stuff like this if these people have ever read Jesus' admonishment to the Pharisees in Matthew 23. After all, it was the Pharisees that were concerned with outward appearances, and Jesus had some pretty strong words for them;

Matthew 23:25-26 (NIV)
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
​

This indeed might easily refer to a new believer in Christ (behold all things become new) but what about the believer who then goes and puts an indelible markings on his cup which are reminiscent of the previous worldly existence. It would not therefore be presumptuous to think that the inside might also be polluted . In any case the marking could encourage other cups to get similar markings so ultimately worldly cups and "regenerated" cups would be hard to tell apart.

 

[ivanthegood]

​

From the link above;

"...Rightly or wrongly, people judge by appearances. As Christians, we need to avoid doing anything that would cause others to be uncomfortable with the way we look, or would cause them to fail to recognize us as followers of Christ. This is particularly true when we are witnessing to non-Christians..."
​

This presupposes that there is a certain way to "look" (from outward appearance) like a Christian.

It makes me wonder when I read stuff like this if these people have ever read Jesus' admonishment to the Pharisees in Matthew 23. After all, it was the Pharisees that were concerned with outward appearances, and Jesus had some pretty strong words for them;

Matthew 23:25-26 (NIV)
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
​

still not sure why you think people should look like a pagan, your pharisee passage refers to folks wearing long flowing robes much like the Catholics and how they reinvented the priesthood, looking like a pharisee and looking like satans off spring are two ends of the spectrum, why do people need to look like anyone, why not just look common

 

[probinson]

still not sure why you think people should look like a pagan,

I don't even know what that means.

How exactly would someone look like a Christian? Is there an acceptable appearance clause that I've missed somewhere?

 

[probinson]

This indeed might easily refer to a new believer in Christ (behold all things become new) but what about the believer who then goes and puts an indelible markings on his cup which are reminiscent of the previous worldly existence.

So let's say someone decides to get a tattoo that says "Jesus Loves Me" on their arm. How would you say that is that reminiscent of their previous worldly existence?

It would not therefore be presumptuous to think that the inside might also be polluted .

You do realize that you're suggesting that it's completely OK to judge people by their outward appearance, and that it's not presumptuous to make a judgement based solely on the way someone looks. I'd have to disagree.

In any case the marking could encourage other cups to get similar markings so ultimately worldly cups and "regenerated" cups would be hard to tell apart.

Huh?

This is a bit like saying, "Worldly people and regenerated people both wear jeans and t-shirts, so how will we be able to tell them apart?" Jesus said we would be known as His disciples by our Love for one another, not because we don't "look like" (literally) worldly people. The way we are set apart has nothing at all to do with what we look like.

Outward appearance has nothing to do with what the inside of the cup looks like, at least not according to Jesus.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Perhaps a tattoo maybe considered to be fruit by which we will know them in view of God telling us that they are not holy.

 

[probinson]

Perhaps a tattoo maybe considered to be fruit by which we will know them in view of God telling us that they are not holy.

Perhaps, but there's absolutely no scriptural basis for such a belief.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Perhaps, but there's absolutely no scriptural basis for such a belief.

Neither is there any scriptual basis that suggests that God has changed His mind since Leviticus.