Taking the offense out of the CROSS!

[Torah613]

"A roshi meets two students in the garden. To them, he asks, "where is Hell?"
"In Heaven," the first student replies.
The roshi humphs, disappointedly. He then looks at the second.
"In the flower by your foot," the second replies. He then bends down and kisses it. The first student bows, enlightened."

what it means, i don't have a clue and can only speculate some interpretation of it, but i found it interesting for this discussion.

It means the same as the quote about the nature of enlightenment:

"A student approached a master who was weighing flax and asked him 'master what is the nature of enlightenment?' The master replied 'three pounds flax.'"

Meaning that focusing on the here and now is what is important. We can worry all we want about heaven and hell and we won't get a single part of the Master's plan on earth completed. How can we love our neighbor, feed the hungry, etc. when we are busy worrying that if we step on a crack the wrong way we will go to hell. (interestingly this is the same rebuke used by our Lord on the Pharisees).

Joe Zollars

 

[Asimov]

You're absolutely right. Burning in hell for all of eternity certainly doesn't come anywhere near being "torture." Those silly nonbelievers! God loves you, no matter what, even as he causes your fat to boil, and searing, intolerable pain on every single nerve ending in your body for all time (which is a REALLY REALLY REALLY long time).

We'll have nerve endings in Hell? I thought this was all spiritual stuff...

 

[bobhope]

We'll have nerve endings in Hell? I thought this was all spiritual stuff...

How else are we intended to feel pain? God created nerve endings for a reason, surely, so he'll probably reuse them in hell. Why not? Less work for Him!

 

[Cleany]

God wants blood sacrifices in order to be appeased

do you actually believe that god who created the universe needs blood sacrifices to be able to forgive? that gods choice of behaviour, or his very nature is determined by actions within his creation?

you actually believe that?

 

[Martinez]

do you actually believe that god who created the universe needs blood sacrifices to be able to forgive? that gods choice of behaviour, or his very nature is determined by actions within his creation?

you actually believe that?

Some people still worship Molech, their just not practicing, but they still love to preach him though!

I think He goes by a different name now!

 

[Im_A]

It means the same as the quote about the nature of enlightenment:

"A student approached a master who was weighing flax and asked him 'master what is the nature of enlightenment?' The master replied 'three pounds flax.'"

Meaning that focusing on the here and now is what is important. We can worry all we want about heaven and hell and we won't get a single part of the Master's plan on earth completed. How can we love our neighbor, feed the hungry, etc. when we are busy worrying that if we step on a crack the wrong way we will go to hell. (interestingly this is the same rebuke used by our Lord on the Pharisees).

Joe Zollars

well that's the only interpretation i could really come to myself, about it being that we need to be focused on the here and now mostly.

 

[Scrivner]

God LOVES us. That is why he sent is son to day as a propitiation for our sins. Christ won our redemption and pardon by his shed blood on the cross. God has wrath, and Christ shields us from that wrath by absorbing it on the cross.

God enforces his law by bringing the wronger to pain or rendering that pain on Christ on the cross as an atonement.

People who willingly yield themeselves to the operation of divine judgment, hoping it to be pedagogical will find that the judgment has as its end not the destruction of the evil in the person, but rather the destruction of the person himself.

You have been warned -- the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

 

[Soul Searcher]

You have been warned -- the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

Fear in this case meaning respect, not terror.

 

[non-religious]

[Soul Searcher]Fear in this case meaning respect, not terror.

Exactly... Should I come to God because He threatens me? Am I forced to love Him because He is a God of eternal punishment and wrath?
On that basis alone Christianity will lose many new converts. This twisted and negative percerption of God will not cause those who are searching or doubting to embrace Christ.
I can't equate a God of love with a God who knowingly sends His children to hell.

 

[Scrivner]

Exactly... Should I come to God because He threatens me? Am I forced to love Him because He is a God of eternal punishment and wrath?
On that basis alone Christianity will lose many new converts. This twisted and negative percerption of God will not cause those who are searching or doubting to embrace Christ.
I can't equate a God of love with a God who knowingly sends His children to hell.

God is love, but he is also holy and just and would render infinite grief upon non-believing law-breakers who doubt the plausibility of this presentation of God.

 

[Soul Searcher]

God is love, but he is also holy and just and would render infinite grief upon non-believing law-breakers who doubt the plausibility of this presentation of God.

Ohh how many times have I heard that surrounded by words that absolutely and completely contradict the same.

Is it holy to torture helpless creatures who do not understand and can not defend themselves? You say yes by impling that this punishment is done because God is holy. Should we torture our cat because it jumped onto the couch after we told it not to? You imply yes but we all know the answer is no.

Is it justice to render a penalty that is a kzillion times more severe than the crime. You say yes by saying that eternal torture is just. Should we then take all of Bill Gates money because he once stole a piece of bubble gum and has not repented for it? You imply yes but again we all know the answer is no.

These things you imply are just and holy we would find deplorable in any human, think about that for a minute. Is God creation more just and holy than God or are you just severly mistaken?

 

[Martinez]

God is love, but he is also holy and just and would render infinite grief upon non-believing law-breakers who doubt the plausibility of this presentation of God.

Wow, I've haven't heard that one before!

is it just me, or do these arguments seem to get more and more original?

 

[TScott]

...the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

God is love. Why do you fear love? Love is the only thing that gives us hope. When Jesus died on the cross, he committed the greatest act of love that can be imagined. He freed us all of our fear, and gave hope in it's place. Love is the whole point of the Christian faith, not fear.

 

[Scrivner]

The operation of divine judgment upon the non-believing sinner has as its end the destruction of the sinner. The Bible is very clear about this. If you do not receive what I tell you with credulity, I am commanded by God to symbolically shake the dust of your town off my feet and invoke the memory of what God did to Sodom -- sending down sulphur to injure people who had violated God's law:

Mt 10:14,15-AND WHOSOEVER SHALL NOT RECEIVE (or welcome) YOU, NOR HEAR (or listen to) YOUR WORDS, WHEN YE DEPART OUT OF THAT HOUSE OR CITY (or town), SHAKE OFF THE DUST OF YOUR FEET. VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, IT SHALL BE MORE TOLERABLE FOR THE LAND OF SODOM AND GOMORRHA IN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT, THAN FOR THAT CITY.

 

[Cleany]

God LOVES us.

...

You have been warned.

​

 

[Athene]

If you do not receive what I tell you with credulity, I am commanded by God to symbolically shake the dust of your town off my feet .

We're not stopping you, close the door on your way out.

 

[Cleany]

God is love, but he is also holy and just and would render infinite grief upon non-believing law-breakers who doubt the plausibility of this presentation of God.

wow you sound just like some guy called Delft who disappeared a couple of weeks ago.

"infinite grief" - thats a classic one.

 

[Athene]

wow you sound just like some guy called Delft who disappeared a couple of weeks ago.

A little too similar if ya catch my drift.

 

[Im_A]

wow you sound just like some guy called Delft who disappeared a couple of weeks ago.

"infinite grief" - thats a classic one.

EXACTLY. glad i'm not the only one that caught on. surprised the thread is still going.

 

[Torah613]

We're not stopping you, close the door on your way out.

please do leave scrivner.

Joe Zollars