Taking questions on the Creation.

[AV1611VET]

Huh...what?? Who told you that? I've never heard any discussion whatsoever of Adam being the author of anything. Your basis for this statement?

65

 

[CoderHead]

• Adam wrote Genesis 1-3.
• Seth wrote Genesis 3-5.
• Noah wrote Genesis 6-9.
• Genesis 10 & 11 I can't remember right now.
• Abraham wrote Genesis 12-25.
• etc.

It's a theory based on colophons (genealogies) --- and a very plausible one at that.

Seems to me your list is incomplete and lacking any factual basis. It's a plausible theory, sure. But me saying that Pope Clement I wrote Genesis is just as plausible, given the lack of credible evidence.

 

[AV1611VET]

Seems to me your list is incomplete and lacking any factual basis. It's a plausible theory, sure. But me saying that Pope Clement I wrote Genesis is just as plausible, given the lack of credible evidence.

1

 

[CoderHead]

http://www.christianforums.com/t5960462/#post37975061I create an apple ex nihilo into the palm of your hand.

What evidence would you use to convince your friend I did this?

1. You can't do it.
2. You'd have to reproduce it.
3. I would not presume to be able to convince my friend that you did such a thing. It defies natural laws.

Question: what does this have to do with your list of presumed authors? As of now, it's merely a claim that not even all of your fellow Christians hold as plausible.

 

[Sophophile]

Yes and no.

I believe the earth is existentially 6100 years old --- that is, it has gone around the sun 6100 times.

I also believe the earth is physically 4.57 billion years old --- that is, it has 4.57 billion years of age.Occam's Razor.

It's the simplest explanation that allows for both a literal Genesis 1, and a literal scientific dating.Both Adam and Eve were created on the 6th day.

Hi AV1611VET

Your explanation, involving existential and "embedded" age, is not simple.

Rather, your explanation is based on an extreme and complex epistemology -- which includes the concept that we cannot learn the truth about reality from direct observations of reality. Why? Because, you claim, the universe contains perfect, undetectable illusions of events that never happened, or did not happen when and where we directly observe them to happen.

I feel it behooves you to be "up front" about this aspect of your creation concept, and not potentially mislead people by calling it "simple".

There is only one way to have a "simple" explanation of scientific dating, and that is that the universe is billions of years old, because that is what our observations of reality show to be the truth about reality.

Simple.

With kind regards
S.

 

[AV1611VET]

1. You can't do it.
2. You'd have to reproduce it.
3. I would not presume to be able to convince my friend that you did such a thing. It defies natural laws.

1. I'm not God.
2. How would that help? It wouldn't be evidence I created the first apple ex nihilo.
3. So much for miracles then, eh?

Question: what does this have to do with your list of presumed authors?

It was an attempt to get back on topic.

As of now, it's merely a claim that not even all of your fellow Christians hold as plausible.

Emphasis on 'all'?

QV please: The Wiseman Hypothesis.

 

[AV1611VET]

I feel it behooves you to be "up front" about this aspect of your creation concept, and not potentially mislead people by calling it "simple".

I believe that if you were to be able to go back to Day Eight of the earth's beginning, and date the earth, the result would be 4.57 billion years, even though the earth has just started its maiden voyage around the sun.

It's quite simple --- God embedded age into His creation.

Embedded Age = maturity without history.

 

[Sophophile]

I create an apple ex nihilo into the palm of your hand.

What evidence would you use to convince your friend I did this?

1. You can't do it.
2. You'd have to reproduce it.
3. I would not presume to be able to convince my friend that you did such a thing. It defies natural laws.

Hi CoderHead

I think this hypothetical is misrepresentative of AV1611VET's actual position.



To more accurately represent the young-universe position, it should go something like this:

• I create an apple ex nihilo into the palm of your hand.
• I perfectly conceal and cover up any evidence of my creating the apple or of its existence -- you cannot see me create it, at no point can you ever see or feel or smell the apple -- to you, it is as though it never existed.
• What evidence would you use to convince your friend I did this?

Answer: The only thing I could do to convince a friend of this, would be to say: "Some guy says he created an invisible, undetectable apple in the palm of my hand, and you should believe it."

Not very persuasive.

At all.

Regards
S.

 

[Cabal]

Hi CoderHead

I think this hypothetical is misrepresentative of AV1611VET's actual position.


To more accurately represent the young-universe position, it should go something like this:

• I create an apple ex nihilo into the palm of your hand.
• I perfectly conceal and cover up any evidence of my creating the apple or of its existence -- you cannot see me create it, at no point can you ever see or feel or smell the apple -- to you, it is as though it never existed.
• What evidence would you use to convince your friend I did this?

Answer: The only thing I could do to convince of friend of this, would be to say: "Some guy says he created an invisible, undetectable apple in the palm of my hand, and you should believe it."

Not very persuasive.

At all.

Regards
S.

^ QFT

 

[The Lady Kate]

1

So, in your mind, there's no difference between ex-nihilo creation and determining authorship of a particular work? "Evidence is impossible, so whatever I can concoct must be right"?

 

[Sophophile]

I believe that if you were to be able to go back to Day Eight of the earth's beginning, and date the earth, the result would be 4.57 billion years, even though the earth has just started its maiden voyage around the sun.

It's quite simple --- God embedded age into His creation.

Embedded Age = maturity without history.

Exactly. I understand this AV1611VET.

What I believe you are failing to do is to acknowledge the necessary implications of your own concept.

According to you, the universe has only been in existence for ~6,000 yeasrs. But supernovae look like they exploded hundreds of thousands of years ago, according to the most detailed and straightforward observations. If your young-universe concept is true, then, therefore, what we are seeing in the stars must be an illusion.

I really don't understand why you are so reluctant to acknowledge this simple point. Many 6,000 year creationists do acknowledge it. Perhaps you could explain?

Cheers
S.

 

[CoderHead]

Answer: The only thing I could do to convince of friend of this, would be to say: "Some guy says he created an invisible, undetectable apple in the palm of my hand, and you should believe it."

Right. So you can see why I'm at a loss as to why he even suggested this.

1. I'm not God.

Correct, but you proposed that you created the apple.

2. How would that help? It wouldn't be evidence I created the first apple ex nihilo.

Your hypothetical states, "I create an apple." It was unclear that you intended to say, "I create the first apple." However, creating an apple in the palm of your hand ex nihilo would be very impressive, even if it weren't the first apple. Don't you think? It would also be proof positive that you, in fact, can do it.

3. So much for miracles then, eh?

Yep. I believe that sums up how I feel.

Emphasis on 'all'?

I didn't say, "all." I said, "not all." What I was positing is that there are Christians (do you want to call them "True" Christians?) that do not agree with your view on the authorship of Genesis. So I'm making the observation that your claim is just that - an unsubstantiated claim.

 

[Sophophile]

Right. So you can see why I'm at a loss as to why he even suggested this.

Ah, you haven't been here as long as many. AV1611VET's apple challenge pops up regularly.

Regards
S.

 

[CoderHead]

So, in your mind, there's no difference between ex-nihilo creation and determining authorship of a particular work? "Evidence is impossible, so whatever I can concoct must be right"?

Wow, I didn't even draw that parallel.

 

[BananaSlug]

I believe that if you were to be able to go back to Day Eight of the earth's beginning, and date the earth, the result would be 4.57 billion years, even though the earth has just started its maiden voyage around the sun.

It's quite simple --- God embedded age into His creation.

Embedded Age = maturity without history.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7347875/
^Remember this?

Care to explain why fossils are in rock with 250 million years of "embedded age"?
As for Occam's Razor, you mentioned that fossilized plant material in coal was from an "ancient race of superhumans that extracted the coal, melted it down, rolled it in leaves, then placed it back into the ground". "Embedded age" is falsified through Occam's Razor because you are required to make up wild claims to wave away evidence that supports more than 6,000 years of earth history.

 

[AV1611VET]

According to you, the universe has only been in existence for ~6,000 yeasrs. But supernovae look like they exploded hundreds of thousands of years ago, according to the most detailed and straightforward observations.

Right here is where I think you're going wrong.

How does a supernova --- that just appeared in the sky no less --- look like it exploded hundreds of thousands of years ago?

It's because you guys are trained to believe that a big universe equals an old universe.

 

[thaumaturgy]

Right here is where I think you're going wrong.

How does a supernova --- that just appeared in the sky no less --- look like it exploded hundreds of thousands of years ago?

It's because you guys are trained to believe that a big universe equals an old universe.

No. It's because of marshmallows.

Honestly I've never tried this experiment but it sounds like a nifty way to measure the speed of light using marshmallows and a microwave oven. (Kids wait until mom and dad help you)

Finding the Speed of Light with

 

[CoderHead]

No. It's because of marshmallows.

AWESOME!!!! I have got to try that.

 

[corvus_corax]

No. It's because of marshmallows.

Honestly I've never tried this experiment but it sounds like a nifty way to measure the speed of light using marshmallows and a microwave oven. (Kids wait until mom and dad help you)

Finding the Speed of Light with

Apparently Marshmallows and Chocolate Bars PWN AV's personal interpretation of the Bible.

(Awaiting dad or AV or some other YEC to invoke DSP once AGAIN)
Chocolate rules, and actually exists*!



*Interaction with chocolate is apparently much easier (and more factual) than interaction with certain interpretations of deity.

 

[JustMeSee]

What does it mean that man is in God's image?

Are women also in God's image?