Taking Questions on Creationism

[AV1611VET]

How so?

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes, you said that already. I'm asking if that "maturity" included an embedded education.

You mean, as opposed to Paul, who, after getting saved, went to Arabia and was personally tutored by Jesus Christ?

Galatians 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Hooray for self-interest... the Bible orders its readers to respect it; its readers dutifully obey.

 

[AV1611VET]

The Bible doesn't say, exactly, but it implies that they did just not in the sense of experience.

Yup.

It gets down to academic understanding vs. experiential understanding.

 

[TLK Valentine]

You mean, as opposed to Paul, who, after getting saved, went to Arabia and was personally tutored by Jesus Christ?

If you like...

yes or no will do.

 

[AV1611VET]

Hooray for self-interest... the Bible orders its readers to respect it; its readers dutifully obey.

You don't do that with any of your classes?

 

[TLK Valentine]

You don't do that will any of your classes?

Can you try again, with grammar this time?

 

[AV1611VET]

yes or no will do.

I suppose so.

The word "educated" always gives me red flags; but I'll go with YES and see where it leads.

 

[AV1611VET]

Can you try again, with grammar this time?

Sorry.

It's fixed.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

The Bible doesn't say, exactly, but it implies that they did just not in the sense of experience. When the Bible says to "know" something it means in the sense of experience. Many places it will say something to the effect of, So and so didn't "know" his wife before he died...etc. Obviously Adam and Eve had mental understanding that to die was an evil thing, and also to disobey God was an evil thing. In 2:17 God warned the Adam that if he eats of the tree he will die. He obviously must have understood that this was something bad or evil. In 3:5 Satan capitalized on this and implied that Adam and Eve's eyes were not open to good and evil, but just because he said they weren't doesn't mean they had no understanding of it at all. It only means they had not yet experienced the sting of it.

Because knowing good from evil isn't a guarantee that you'll always choose good.

Just ask any alcoholic.

Right. So, Adam and Eve did or didn't die? The Bible doesn't say whether they died and went to hell, but I imagine that happened at some point? Why wouldn't that be noted, the first people ever to exist passing away and going to hell?

 

[AV1611VET]

Right. So, Adam and Eve did or didn't die? The Bible doesn't say whether they died and went to hell, but I imagine that happened at some point? Why wouldn't that be noted, the first people ever to exist passing away and going to hell?

Even my pastor doesn't know where they went.

But for the record, couldn't they have repented and gotten saved like everyone else?

Was eating the forbidden fruit their unpardonable sin?

I doubt it.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Even my pastor doesn't know where they went.

But for the record, couldn't they have repented and gotten saved like everyone else?

Was eating the forbidden fruit their unpardonable sin?

I doubt it.

Then you go against your Bible or God, one or the other is wrong...

Genesis 2:17 - "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."​

Now, it obviously wasn't a physical death, since that would've been a glaring error - so it must've been (as many apologists claim) a spiritual death. Now, "thou shalt surely die" would seem to indicate to me that God was quite adamant it was a permanent condition, otherwise some lighter language might've been more appropriate, or perhaps God isn't omniscient? or perhaps fallible men wrote and translated the Bible? Otherwise it's an open & shut case, Adam and Eve went their merry afterlife in Hell, or if you subscribe to annihilation theory, they no longer exist at all. Jesus wasn't around to scapegoat for them...

 

[AV1611VET]

Now, "thou shalt surely die" would seem to indicate to me that God was quite adamant it was a permanent condition,

Nope.

Adam lived for 930 years and could have repented at any time.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Adam was part of that "uttermost."

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Nope.

Adam live for 930 years and could have repented any time.

Okay, God was wrong to say they "shalt surely die" then, because they didn't. He must be a liar, is that what you're saying?

 

[AV1611VET]

Okay, God was wrong to say they "shalt surely die" then, because they didn't. He must be a liar, is that what you're saying?

I'm not going to dignify this with a response.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

I'm not going to dignify this with a response.

.....Okay, well I'm confused. What's your plain reading literal interpretation of what's going on here then, because it isn't matching up. How does someone "surely die" in some way (I don't care whether spiritually or physically), then not die after all without that statement being wrong?

**EDIT: Or for it to be correct, they're in hell/annihilated forever... Remember, it was so serious that all of humanity (& even creation itself) went to ruin because of it, so it has to be serious enough for this outcome to be a thing, right?

 

[AV1611VET]

.....Okay, well I'm confused. What's your plain reading literal interpretation of what's going on here then, because it isn't matching up.

It's really very simple:

Adam & Eve ate of the Forbidden Fruit and [surely] died spiritually.

Then God gave them the plan of salvation (a.k.a., the Protevangelium; or what we call the Gospel).

I'm sure they would have responded to it accordingly.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

It's really very simple:

Adam & Eve ate of the Forbidden Fruit and [surely] died spiritually.

Then God gave them the plan of salvation (a.k.a., the Protevangelium; or what we call the Gospel).

I'm sure they would have responded to it accordingly.

.....so they didn't "surely die" after all then, did they.

 

[Speedwell]

I fear that those who have trouble here do so because they want to. The original books didn't have chapter divisions so there was no chapter one and then chapter two.

Doesn't make any difference; it's a question of style elements.

There was only one parchment containing the entire book. It would have read like this:

No, it woudn't. It was written in Hebrew. And of course it was one "parchment" after the two stories were edited together.

​

 

[TLK Valentine]

I suppose so.

The word "educated" always gives me red flags; but I'll go with YES and see where it leads.

Just so we're clear: God embedded His definitions of "good" and "evil" directly into them at the time of their creation, correct?