Taking Question on the Creation and/or the Flood

[mpok1519]

I guess theres no real point of debating any of this.

if anything we're only debating one's own personal interpretation/perception of what the Bible is saying which ranges widely from person to person.

 

[MoonLancer]

I probably should have asked the hard questions first, but oh well.

 

[FishFace]

If your explanation is not already refuted by talk origins, please tell me what the sources are.

If it is already refuted, do you really think AV would care? He would just say God fabricated the evidence. (But of course, in doing so, God is not deceiving you, because God left you a note saying what he did. Except he didn't, but AV will nonetheless claim he did.)

Also, I noticed that you didn't even try to answer where the waters went to when the flood receded.

Goddidit.

 

[consol]

AV1611VET,
You have turned stupidity, into an art.

 

[AV1611VET]

12 how did we developed such rich cultures in such a short amount of time?

Well, I'm not an authority on this, but I assume that's the nature of man; to be able to take what surroundings he's got and make a whole culture out of it. The Jews especially are expert at it.

if god gave us different cultures through the tower of bable (and not just different speech)...

He didn't --- see my next answer.

...how could be upset with Buddhists and Hindu and Muslims for thinking differently, after all religion is mostly based on geography and culture.

Religion indeed is mostly based on geography and culture; but let me make a point. Geography and culture are not the cause of the various religions.

Paul makes it clear in Ephesians 6 that Satan works through an infrastructure of demons.

[bible]Ephesians 6:12[/bible]

I think we can ascertain from the Scriptures that Satan has appointed a ruler over various geographical areas of the earth, with each one responsible for some form of major religion.

Be it the polytheism of Egypt, to the Zoroastrianism of Persia, to the Hinduism of India, to the Taoism of China, to the Voodoo of the Carribbeans, each area has a powerful ruler assigned to it.

Satan, himself started out in the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 28:13), then moved to Tyre (Ezekiel 28:12), then to Pergamos (Revelation 2:12-13).

Today, we don't know where he currently "calls home", but we can be sure that he walketh about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

One of the most famous battles took place over Persia, when Daniel prayed, and God's angel could not get through to Daniel because of Satan's minions. Finally, Michael had to come and take charge.

[bible]Daniel 10:13[/bible]

But Scripture records that Michael himself is no match for God's most powerful [ex]angel --- Lucifer.

When Satan tried to commandeer Moses' body, Michael had to call upon God Himself for assistance.

[bible]Jude 1:9[/bible]

 

[AV1611VET]

13 how did our skin colors change (not just black and white)?

As far as I know, it's the amount of melanin in our skin that determines our "color". We are actually one race:

[bible]Acts 17:26[/bible]

14 were did the excess water come from?

From two sources:

1. A water canopy that surrounded the earth.
2. A subterranean source(s).

I personally believe that the Grand Canyon was a major source - (just a pet theory of mine).

15 were did the water go afterwards?

This is one of those Deuteronomy 29:29 things. Not so much a "secret", as it is something that God just didn't want recorded.

Of course, we're not in the dark as to what happened to it. Since God sent it, I'm sure He was the One Who cleaned it up afterward.

16 how did the fresh water animals live when all the rivers and streams were covered in salt water.

I don't believe the Flood was salt water. When it rains, it rains fresh water. Also, well water from subterranean sources is fresh water.

The way I see it, ether all the salt water fish died or all the fresh water fish died.

That could be, but remember, these fish would not be the same types of fish we see today. Also, the salt-water fish could have stayed in the oceans, and the fresh-water fish could have stayed over land.

17 how did all the trees survive the flood?

I don't believe they did.

18 how did animals migrate to remote islands?

Islands didn't exist back then.

 

[Tomk80]

AV thinks that pangea existed 6000 years ago.

I don't think asking him anything is a good idea.

It isn't, unless it is for amusement value.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Well, I'm not an authority on this, but I assume that's the nature of man; to be able to take what surroundings he's got and make a whole culture out of it. The Jews especially are expert at it.

But we see evidence of continuous culture in many areas of the globe stretching back to well before you claim the flood occured. So I ask again, focusing on the Middle East,

When was the Paleolithic?
Specifically what is the time frame during which the Qadan and Sebilian developed in Egypt?

When was the Neolitihic
Specifically when did the the successive cultures known as Tasian, Badarian and Amratian(Naqada I) develop?
When did the Prodynastic Naqada III culture develop from the earlier Naqada cultures?

When did the Early Bronze Age begin?
For example when were upper and lower predynastic Egypt united to form the the Old Kingdom?

But the key question is Why do both Egyptian and Sumerian Cultures seem to date back continously through the Neolithic with no evidence of ever having been interupted by a global flood?

 

[AV1611VET]

19 why do some places exist that clearly show no signs of erosion (as mentioned earlier in this thread)

One of my favorite examples is to take a plastic swimming pool and fill it about 3/4 with sand. Let ants build a large infrastructure in it, then fill the whole thing with water.

Take the pool and shake it up good.

Now let the pool sit for --- oh --- about a hundred years, and then look for signs of erosion.

Also, break the pool into four major "continents".

If you could interview the current colony of ants, and ask them what happened --- I'm sure they wouldn't know.

20 how did Noah rescue the termites?

He had toothpicks for lifeboats?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

The Bible says "it repented the Lord":

[bible]Genesis 6:6[/bible]

Since "repent" means to do a 180, the point is that mans' ways (and I'm going to choose this next word carefully) forced* God to take action.

*For lack of a better term.

So a supposedly ominpotent and omniscient God was forced to take action? How could that have happened? How did his supposedly perfect (according to you) creation rather quickly end up so botched up that He was forced to do something about it?

 

[AV1611VET]

Is it any wonder that creationists aren't taken seriously?

Now that's a question I'd like to see AV answer from a Biblical perspective.

[bible]Matthew 9:24[/bible][bible]Matthew 27:63[/bible]

 

[AV1611VET]

Since God knew the Fall would happen, why did he create nature in such a way as to be imperfect after the Fall?

That's not the way He did it. He created it perfect --- then later cursed it into imperfection.

 

[AV1611VET]

thats two fold, because why would he make everything perfect before the fall? i mean its just going to be messed up after the fall right?

nice two sided para dime. i like it.

Consider this:

If you were in the business of building perfect cars, and someone bought one of your cars and wrecked it --- who's to blame?

You or the driver?

 

[AV1611VET]

How could his creation be called perfect in the first place, if it could fall?

Perfection is not immunity against failure --- omnipotence is.

How could a created human be called perfect, if it couldn't fully grasp the consequences of it's actions and hence enable the fall?

Adam and Eve were made full-aware of their consequences before eating of the forbidden fruit.

 

[AV1611VET]

If that is the case, why do we look so much like apes? Does God look like an ape too - obviously, you can't claim that that is spiritual likeness since the Bible is literal.

Or DNA (and looks) could be only .000000001% different from the apes, and we would still be "man".

We may look like apes, but God says we aren't.

[bible]Genesis 1:26[/bible][bible]1 Kings 10:22[/bible]

 

[AV1611VET]

Whilst we're here, can you give us actual dates for both the Creation and the Flood?

Creation = 4044 BC

Flood = 2450 BC

 

[thaumaturgy]

Or DNA (and looks) could be only .000000001% different from the apes, and we would still be "man".

We may look like apes, but God says we aren't.

[bible]Genesis 1:26[/bible]

So God and whomever he was addressing in this quote, are characterized by:

1. Bipedal gate.
2. Forward facing eyes with stereoscopic vision (to aid in life as an upright creature in need of high visual accuity in order to survive on the savannah or in tree-type environments.
3. Social order (Does God groom the angels and pick nits off of their fur?)
4. Having a mammalian reproductive system.
5. Having a mammalian brain with a well developed large brain.
6. Born somewhat underdeveloped.

Now we're getting somewhere, AV! Thanks! As long as we have a picture of God, then we can look for him effectively.

He might be harder to find now that we know he looks a lot like a primate, but we can simply start by asking people (and apes) if they are God.

Since God cannot do "evil" He cannot lie, ergo if I ask someone if they are God and they ARE God they will have to answer in the affirmative.

Theology is easy!

 

[AV1611VET]

Here's my question. What evidence, if found, would falsify a young earth...

Radiometric dating.

...special creation, or a world wide flood. Please provide potential falsifications for each one.

In my opinion, there is no known evidence that falsifies "special creation" or a world-wide flood.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

That's not the way He did it. He created it perfect --- then later cursed it into imperfection.

This makes absolutely no sense because if it really was perfect he could never have had any reason to curse it into imperfection.

 

[AV1611VET]

do you have any reliable, empirical, scientific evidence that would lead one to conclude that there was a massive global flood some 4000 years ago?

Yes ---