Taking Question on the Creation and/or the Flood

[TheOutsider]

Last Tuesdayism is a heresy. We accept Last Thursdayism around here.

Dang. I've been working so much that I forgot what day it was. (I never could get the hang of Thursdays anyways...) And yes, AV sounds exactly like every other YEC I've come across. Why do people even bother responding to him? I'm sure that he'll admit that there is nothing that could change his mind at this point.

 

[Phred]

Dang. I've been working so much that I forgot what day it was. (I never could get the hang of Thursdays anyways...) And yes, AV sounds exactly like every other YEC I've come across. Why do people even bother responding to him? I'm sure that he'll admit that there is nothing that could change his mind at this point.

Mind?

 

[gamespotter10]

I'll take questions on the Creation and/or the Flood, and do my best to answer them from a Biblical perspective.

I major in both areas.

do you have any reliable, empirical, scientific evidence that would lead one to conclude that there was a massive global flood some 4000 years ago?

 

[mpok1519]

How old are you anyway kid?

I'm going to make this clear to these people so I can rid you of the lies you're telling them.

Australia DID EXIST back then. Australia WAS A FREE-FLOATING CONTINENT 7000 years ago.

Penguins DID exist back then, and theres plenty fof paleontological evidence to support this statement. PENGUINS didn't just APPEAR AFTER the ark.

The ark IS A BOAT. A floating water vessal IS a boat.

the supercontinent of pangea DID NOT exist 7000 years ago, but it did exist a few MILLION years ago.

continental drift occurs over long periods of time and they equate it to about one centimeter a year. 7000 centimeters is only a few hundred feet.

stop lying to people. The Bible says that lying is bad kid.

Penguins did exist in the time of the ark, but they were not on it.

the supercontinent of pangea did not exist back then.

The flood was a regional flood. THAT area of the world shows PLENTY of evidence to indicate a large area was under water for a short period of time. If the entire world flooded, the entire world would would have shown some evidence of it.

 

[Nathan Poe]

do you have any reliable, empirical, scientific evidence that would lead one to conclude that there was a massive global flood some 4000 years ago?

Save your bandwidth -- AV's not concerned with anything scientific, empirical, or reliable -- he offers "Biblical evidence" (read that as "Goddidit. Dunno how, but Goddidit.") only.

 

[mpok1519]

its people like him that Christians like me have to worry about; no wonder people are straying away from Christ. Kids with fundamental radicalism in their hearts are not good for the greater purpose of it all.

its that kind of radicalism that destroys the basic principles of Christianity.

 

[CACTUSJACKmankin]

I have not read this thread But i would like some questions answered.

1 How big was the arc?
2 how long did it take to build
3 how many animals were their on the arc?
4 how long did it take to collect the animals?
5 how could the animals that Noah collected live long enough for Noah to collect all the *other* animals?
6 were did all the food from the voyage come from?
7 was Noah rich or poor?
8 how much time did Noah have to do all this
9 were their dinos on the arc?
10 how did the genetic purity of humans and animals survive, and why has science not detected our shallow dna pools. wouldn't we all look alike (see cheetah)?
11 why did Noah not save unicorns and dragons and all the other magical creatures?
12 how did we developed such rich cultures in such a short amount of time? if god gave us different cultures through the tower of bable (and not just different speech), how could be upset with Buddhists and Hindu and Muslims for thinking differently, after all religion is mostly based on geography and culture.
13 how did our skin colors change (not just black and white)?
14 were did the excess water come from?
15 were did the water go afterwards?
16 how did the fresh water animals live when all the rivers and streams were covered in salt water. The way I see it, ether all the salt water fish died or all the fresh water fish died.
17 how did all the trees survive the flood?
18 how did animals migrate to remote islands?
19 why do some places exist that clearly show no signs of erosion (as mentioned earlier in this thread)
20 how did Noah rescue the termites?

I personally find the salinity issue particularly damning. As an aspiring marine biologist myself I can assure you that most aquatic organisms can tolerate a very narrow range of salinities. Only certain species can tolerate the wide ranges and they are mostly found in enstuaries (where rivers meet the oceans). The interesting twist i see is that not only would the freshwater fish have died when the ocean water hit the oceans but the amount of water required to raise the oceans above the mountains would have significantly diluted the oceans to the point that neither salt or freshwater fish would have survived.

On a side note, if you told somebody 5,000 years ago that the world was submerged, do you really think he would know what that meant in terms of scale and feasibility? They didnt know that the americas existed! how could they be expected to properly understand that concept? On top of that they had no concept of the hydrologic cycle, water came from the sky and seas in seemingly infinite amounts. We now know that the amount of water on the planet is relatively constant and finite, things that wouldnt have occurred to people hearing this story in ancient times.

 

[mpok1519]

that list of questions can be answered by AV in one word; goddidit.

lol

but i suppose some people are more interested than the events taking place rather than the message God was trying to provide with that story. The message was God loves us even thogh he punishes us sometimes.

 

[AV1611VET]

1 How big was the arc?

According to the Bible, the Ark is 300 x 50 x 30 cubits.

[bible]Genesis 6:15[/bible]

In English measure, this would be difficult to ascertain; as there are different lengths, depending on which cubit you are using. Notice Deuteronomy 3 here:

...nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.

The standard length, used by Bible scholars, is 18 inches; the Egyptian cubit is about 22 inches; and then there's the angel's cubit, which is enormously long.

I personally believe it is the standard 18-inch cubit, which would make the Ark 450 x 75 x 45 feet.

The Egyptian cubit would make it 550 x 92 x 55 feet.

And the angel's cubit would make it enormously large.

2 how long did it take to build

120 years:

[bible]Genesis 6:3[/bible]

3 how many animals were their on the arc?

It is not know exactly how many animals boarded the Ark. We know they arrived two-by-two, but suffice it to say, enough to repopulate the earth afterward.

4 how long did it take to collect the animals?

120 years assumed.

5 how could the animals that Noah collected live long enough for Noah to collect all the *other* animals?

Man and animals lived much longer then, than they do now. Times were much different.

6 were did all the food from the voyage come from?

The Bible is silent on this, but we are not clueless. In Elijah's time, God miraculously provided enough food for a woman and her son to live.

[bible]1 Kings 17:14[/bible]

It is probable that He did the same with those aboard the Ark.

7 was Noah rich or poor?

Probably rich --- unless he was being oppressed financially.

8 how much time did Noah have to do all this

120 years.

9 were their dinos on the arc?

Yes --- dino prototypes --- or "kinds".

10 how did the genetic purity of humans and animals survive, and why has science not detected our shallow dna pools. wouldn't we all look alike (see cheetah)?

The gene pool was perfect in Genesis 1. So much so, that it was okay for a man to marry his sister (as Cain may have done).

It began to decay in Genesis 3.

11 why did Noah not save unicorns and dragons and all the other magical creatures?

He did --- these "kinds" were not "magical creatures". The unicorn was a rhino prototype, and the dragon was a dinosaur prototype.

More later.

 

[mpok1519]

yet no fossil records indicate unicorns ever existing outside the realms of imagination.

stop lying to people kid. You're not doing Jesus any favors by lying.

 

[FishFace]

(I never could get the hang of Thursdays anyways...)

Have some reps, newcomer!

 

[FishFace]

Isn't it amusing how AV has to make statements like, "people lived longer back then," and "we had perfect genetics," and "God vanished the excess water," just to fit everything with an infallible Bible, yet, with one simple sweep, if we entertain the notion of a fallible Bible, all of these problems evaporate?

It's Ockham's razor on steroids!

 

[mpok1519]

theres a few of those radicalists out there. and many of them have bombs strapped to their torsos.....

 

[Loudmouth]

He did --- these "kinds" were not "magical creatures". The unicorn was a rhino prototype, and the dragon was a dinosaur prototype.

More later.

This is why we ask AV questions. He's the goose who laid the comedy gold.

 

[mpok1519]

he is funny, I do admit.

 

[CACTUSJACKmankin]

The gene pool was perfect in Genesis 1. So much so, that it was okay for a man to marry his sister (as Cain may have done).

Define "perfect gene pool" in biologically relevant terms. I'll give you some credit if you can demonstrate a basic understanding for the genetic basis for problems that arise from inbreeding. Clearly perfect doesnt mean they were genetically exact or closer, right?

 

[elcapitan]

The water came from two major sources:

1. A water canopy surrounding the Earth - (Genesis 1:6-7).
2. Subterranean sources - (Genesis 7:11).

Even Answers in Genesis knows that the water canopy idea is wrong. If the water canopy caused any substancial rain, the Earth's temperature would have been intolerably high.

Saying "subterranean sources" is far too vague. Since I don't know what you mean by "subterranean sources", I'll just refer you to the talk origins page that refutes many of the sources commonly referred to by creationists(including AiG).

If your explanation is not already refuted by talk origins, please tell me what the sources are.

Also, I noticed that you didn't even try to answer where the waters went to when the flood receded.

Had He done it that way, He couldn't have used it later in the New Testament as a warning that in the end of the dispensation that you and I are currently living in (Grace), we will return to the days of Noah.

If God did it my way, He still could have used it as a warning. I think if everyone except Noah's family was killed by God, people would remember (they remembered the flood, after all).

 

[mpok1519]

AV thinks that pangea existed 6000 years ago.

I don't think asking him anything is a good idea.

if pangea existed 6000 years ago, wouldn't people have noticed a sudden drastic explosion in separation of landmasses? Wouldn't people have recorded such mega catastrophes as land began to shred and pull apart from each other practically overnight? Wouldn't people have written about how thousands of miles at a time suddenly branched apart?

there would have been evidence, geological and anthropological, of such events happening.

Pangea existed MILLIONS of years ago, not 6000 years. a million years is a thousand thousands, not six. thats a pretty big difference if you ask anyone.

 

[DisgruntledPostalEmployee]

The gene pool was perfect in Genesis 1. So much so, that it was okay for a man to marry his sister (as Cain may have done).

It began to decay in Genesis 3.

I'm not surprised! There's a reason incest is a taboo in many cultures.
It does bring up the question of just how perfect God's creation was, if his genetic coding is incapable of surviving a single Biblical book without decaying.

He did --- these "kinds" were not "magical creatures". The unicorn was a rhino prototype, and the dragon was a dinosaur prototype.

More later.

So what was Pikachu a prototype for?

 

[TheOutsider]

He did --- these "kinds" were not "magical creatures". The unicorn was a rhino prototype, and the dragon was a dinosaur prototype.

More later.

Ok, two questions:

1) What is a "kind"?

2) How did we get from these prototypes to the current set of species that are all around us?

I think I know how you'll answer, but I want to hear it from you.