Taking it out of context?

[Blackness]

I have noticed that a lot of the things that have been posted to support Universal Salvation have been taking out of context. Are there any full verses that support it?


(I am now Agnostic and awaiting icon change, therefore I might not be able to complete the conversation, I will PM).

 

[Bernie02]

I have noticed that a lot of the things that have been posted to support Universal Salvation have been taking out of context. Are there any full verses that support it?

Taken out of whose context? This statement usually is intended to suggest that the Bible has its own "context" which others (typically those who don't believe as you or Bob or Shirley of whomever) conveniently "twist" to make say something different.

Actually, the Bible IMO is truth, and truth is not easily affixed to a single context.

Because most so-called 'theology boards' rarely get below the superficial level of discussion, virtually all the evidence to support any point of view is necessarily hashed out elsewhere, by scholars and others who take their theology seriously. What we actually have here are doctrinal discussions.

From the human point of view, any proper "context" has certain tests of truth which have to be carefully compared to competing "contexts" or points of view, and both analyzed in light of reasonable tests for truth claims to see which view is more sound. Problem is, 90% of all those on theology boards really have no interest in setting aside prejudices and presuppositions to objectively consider the views of others, anyway. This of course makes the possibility of meaningful exchange almost useless on these boards. Most of us, Calvinist, Arminian and Universalist alike, are only interested in maintaining our own view and blasting the others.

If you're serious about wanting to see the proper "context" for universalism, as a self-proclaimed agnostic I have to doubt whether you're really part of the audience for whom this discussion has much chance of bearing fruit.

 

[HomeBound]

If you don't mind me asking, why are you agnostic now?
Are you a former fundie? Have you held to strong doctrin of one particular group and feel missinformed?

 

[Blackness]

If you don't mind me asking, why are you agnostic now?
Are you a former fundie? Have you held to strong doctrin of one particular group and feel missinformed?

lol No I am not a former fundie, but just to get it clear:

I dont know if a god exists, so I cant say for sure if Atheists or Thiests are correct.

 

[StudentoftheWord]

*shrug*

I don't take seriously statements of fallacy.

It is like saying, I keep noticing keep beating a horse, is there anything to prove you that you don't?

Come on ILoveIsrael, you know better than to act like this and make such silly statements. Why don't you take the time and explain what you mean by taking things out of context?

 

[Blackness]

*shrug*

I don't take seriously statements of fallacy.

It is like saying, I keep noticing keep beating a horse, is there anything to prove you that you don't?

Come on ILoveIsrael, you know better than to act like this and make such silly statements. Why don't you take the time and explain what you mean by taking things out of context?

Taking small fractions of a verse, for example.

The dog jumped into the river and climbed out the other side

things like that.

(I have been questioning a lot of things lately)

 

[HomeBound]

I was on the road to becoming an agnostic too until someone introduced me to Near Death Experiences.

 

[Blackness]

I was on the road to becoming an agnostic too until someone introduced me to Near Death Experiences.

You mean illusions triggered by the lack of oxygen to the brain?

 

[HomeBound]

You mean illusions triggered by the lack of oxygen to the brain?

That's what I thought when I first started to research them. I've also heard ALL the attempts of explaining them away scientifically. But I've come to find that they are much much more than these explainations had to offer.

BTW I wasn't trying to turn your thread into a debate about NDE's, I was just trying to help.

 

[martymonster]

I was on the road to becoming an agnostic too until someone introduced me to Near Death Experiences.

Wow!

Now that's what I call tough love.

 

[ShanaB]

I have noticed that a lot of the things that have been posted to support Universal Salvation have been taking out of context.Are there any full verses that support it?

Hi, Colossians 1:15-20 is a good example to me:



15He is the (AJ)image of the (AK)invisible God, the (AL)firstborn of all creation.
16For (AM)by Him all things were created, (AN)both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether (AO)thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--(AP)all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17He (AQ)is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18He is also (AR)head of (AS)the body, the church; and He is (AT)the beginning, (AU)the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
19For it was (AV)the Father's good pleasure for all (AW)the fullness to dwell in Him, 20and through Him to (AX)reconcile all things to Himself, having made (AY)peace through (AZ)the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, (BA)whether things on earth or things in heaven.


Can you give an example of something taken out of context that is being used to support UR? Thanks!

 

[HomeBound]

Wow!

Now that's what I call tough love.

LOL
Not my own experiences.

 

[Logicalthinker]

Things are taken out of context because people are wrapped up in false religion. Satan has been so cleaver at it that everyone thinks their right and everyone else is wrong. And they want to prove their right so bad that they take the bible out of context or just portions of it to prove their point. The bible was made by God and does not contradict itself. If the religion your in contradicts the bible it is a false religion. No candy coating here, if it contradicts the bible it is a false religion. The other question to sniff out false religion is to ask if Jesus would do that.

Here is some examples of contradictions.

God is a loving merciful creator who loves all of mankind = You will burn in Hell forever. The punishment does not fit the crime and God is a God of Justice. He would not torture someone for eternity for maybe 80yrs of existence.

Jesus And God are one with the holy spirit. = John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.,
Plus Jesus did not know when armageddon was. Only God knows. Also God can not lie. But if he was Jesus than he lied to us by saying he was his own son. Why not just say,"I am God almighty in the flesh here to set things right." Now that would be the truth, if the trinity was true.

Mary the mother of God = No where in the bible does it claim that Mary, a human, is the mother of the almighty creator She is the mother of his son the lamb of God.

Everyone gets to go to heaven including homosexuals =Lev 20:13 and many other versus show that they do not inherit the Kingdom.

Now the other way to spot false religion. Just ask Would Jesus do that.

Would Jesus Pray to God his father? = yes
Would Jesus pray to his mother Mary? = No
Would Jesus bow in front of a cross or use a cross? = No
Would Jesus manipulate something to his own advantage? = No
Would Jesus help the sick and dieing? = Yes.
Would Jesus have sex with another man? = No
Would Jesus fly to Iraq and walk up to a complete stranger and drive a sword through their heart? = No

If Jesus will not do it, than as a Christian I am not to do it.

Pretty simple. But these two things will show all false religion and what people take out of context will not matter. You will know the truth. The whole world is wrapped in false religion and hardly anyone knows it or they don't want to believe they have been fooled by the prince of lies and are living in a false religion.

 

[Boxmaker]

I have noticed that a lot of the things that have been posted to support Universal Salvation have been taking out of context. Are there any full verses that support it?


(I am now Agnostic and awaiting icon change, therefore I might not be able to complete the conversation, I will PM).

There is no verse, taken in context, that supports Universal Salvation. Universal Salvation is built entirely on a concept of human fairness and then the Bible is quoted out of context to support that point of view.

Contrary to what others have said, the Bible does have context. The epistles are letters written to the churches of the time. They were written to specific churches for specific reasons. They must be kept within the context in which they were written for them to have truth. Taken out of context, you can make the Bible support anything you want.

And that is what the Universalists do. I have had many discussion with them and they have never been able to point to a single verse, taken in context, that supports their theology.

 

[Logicalthinker]

I was on the road to becoming an agnostic too until someone introduced me to Near Death Experiences.

If your a Christian and what you have been taught or told contradicts the bible it is a false religion.

There are no ghosts. Ghosts = demons that remember Uncle Bob
To believe in ghosts would take the standing that God makes mistakes. He told us what the dead do. Nothing. I don't think God would tell us one thing and than another happens. that would make God a liar or someone that doesn't know what he is talking about But being a christian I know God would not lie and he does know what he is talking about.

These verses show that we don't go to heaven the instant we die or become ghosts.. We stay in the Grave until judgment day.
God doesn't want everyone in heaven playing harps and watching their loved ones being raped, murdered, robbed, and committing crimes of their own in this Satan owned world. we as angels would sit and watch helplessly. Thats no heaven that would be helpless torture.


Ecclesiastes9: 9-12 9 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun. 10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. 11 I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all. 12 For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them.

If the religion contradicts the bible it is a false religion.

 

[HomeBound]

If your a Christian and what you have been taught or told contradicts the bible it is a false religion.

There are no ghosts. Ghosts = demons that remember Uncle Bob
To believe in ghosts would take the standing that God makes mistakes. He told us what the dead do. Nothing. I don't think God would tell us one thing and than another happens. that would make God a liar or someone that doesn't know what he is talking about But being a christian I know God would not lie and he does know what he is talking about.

These verses show that we don't go to heaven the instant we die or become ghosts.. We stay in the Grave until judgment day.
God doesn't want everyone in heaven playing harps and watching their loved ones being raped, murdered, robbed, and committing crimes of their own in this Satan owned world. we as angels would sit and watch helplessly. Thats no heaven that would be helpless torture.


Ecclesiastes9: 9-12 9 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun. 10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. 11 I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all. 12 For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them.

If the religion contradicts the bible it is a false religion.

What contradicts the Bible are the Christians I have met that spout out biblical references while practicing hatred towards those who don't believe as they do.

 

[HomeBound]

These verses show that we don't go to heaven the instant we die or become ghosts.. We stay in the Grave until judgment day.

Judgement day may be the day Jesus was crucified. He did tell the thief he would be in paradise that day. Not to mention a bunch of bodies came out of the grave when Jesus gave up his ghost.

 

[martymonster]

Things are taken out of context because people are wrapped up in false religion. Satan has been so cleaver at it that everyone thinks their right and everyone else is wrong. And they want to prove their right so bad that they take the bible out of context or just portions of it to prove their point. The bible was made by God and does not contradict itself. If the religion your in contradicts the bible it is a false religion. No candy coating here, if it contradicts the bible it is a false religion. The other question to sniff out false religion is to ask if Jesus would do that.

Here is some examples of contradictions.

God is a loving merciful creator who loves all of mankind = You will burn in Hell forever. The punishment does not fit the crime and God is a God of Justice. He would not torture someone for eternity for maybe 80yrs of existence.

Jesus And God are one with the holy spirit. = John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.,
Plus Jesus did not know when armageddon was. Only God knows. Also God can not lie. But if he was Jesus than he lied to us by saying he was his own son. Why not just say,"I am God almighty in the flesh here to set things right." Now that would be the truth, if the trinity was true.

Mary the mother of God = No where in the bible does it claim that Mary, a human, is the mother of the almighty creator She is the mother of his son the lamb of God.

Everyone gets to go to heaven including homosexuals =Lev 20:13 and many other versus show that they do not inherit the Kingdom.

Now the other way to spot false religion. Just ask Would Jesus do that.

Would Jesus Pray to God his father? = yes
Would Jesus pray to his mother Mary? = No
Would Jesus bow in front of a cross or use a cross? = No
Would Jesus manipulate something to his own advantage? = No
Would Jesus help the sick and dieing? = Yes.
Would Jesus have sex with another man? = No
Would Jesus fly to Iraq and walk up to a complete stranger and drive a sword through their heart? = No

If Jesus will not do it, than as a Christian I am not to do it.

Pretty simple. But these two things will show all false religion and what people take out of context will not matter. You will know the truth. The whole world is wrapped in false religion and hardly anyone knows it or they don't want to believe they have been fooled by the prince of lies and are living in a false religion.

It is nice to have a logical thinker here.

there's not many of us!

 

[Logicalthinker]

What contradicts the Bible are the Christians I have met that spout out biblical references while practicing hatred towards those who don't believe as they do.

I hate no one. I do this so people can see false religion. Satan has made this world his. I want people to see that and find the true religion that the bible tells us about.

How would following man made doctrine and commandments over God's doctrines and commandments show love for God?

Plus you are practicing hatred just by your post. Where have I singled out anyone in hatred. I will judge religions because that is my God given right. He commanded all of us to

Ephesians 4:4-7 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

One Faith, Well I say that the one faith that God is talking about is one that follows his commandments and doctrine. Not man. I will never put my faith in man. Look at how imperfect man is. So all those creeds out there are garbage. I will put my faith in God and his word. So if a religion or government directly disobeys God it is a false religion.

Now please show me scripture that says it is ok for a religion to disobey God just a little bit.

People disobey God all the time. But have the chance to ask for forgivness. A religion is the place where people learn about God. It is not to defy God at all. Or it is not his religion.

Now please anyone. Show me where the scripture says a religion can disobey God a little bit.

 

[HomeBound]

I hate no one. I do this so people can see false religion. Satan has made this world his. I want people to see that and find the true religion that the bible tells us about.

How would following man made doctrine and commandments over God's doctrines and commandments show love for God?

Plus you are practicing hatred just by your post. Where have I singled out anyone in hatred. I will judge religions because that is my God given right. He commanded all of us to

Ephesians 4:4-7 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

One Faith, Well I say that the one faith that God is talking about is one that follows his commandments and doctrine. Not man. I will never put my faith in man. Look at how imperfect man is. So all those creeds out there are garbage. I will put my faith in God and his word. So if a religion or government directly disobeys God it is a false religion.

Now please show me scripture that says it is ok for a religion to disobey God just a little bit.

People disobey God all the time. But have the chance to ask for forgivness. A religion is the place where people learn about God. It is not to defy God at all. Or it is not his religion.

Now please anyone. Show me where the scripture says a religion can disobey God a little bit.

I wasn't actually talking about you. But now that you mention it, just by saying that Christianity is the only true religion and all others aren't going to Heaven is a hateful point of view.