Taking "Christ" Out of "Christmas"

[water_ripple]

The church has no authority for determining Biblical instruction. Only God does. His holy word stands with no need for man to invent his own little additions. To insinuate that man has the authority of that which is divine, is blasphemy. Christ spoke often and condemned man-made doctrines about his word...then you expect us to believe that he made a mistake and really meant it was okay based on your interpretation of a single passage. One verse does not a doctrine make. Christ is the rock of our foundation...not Peter and not the RCC which continued in the same exact mistakes as did the Jewish authorities.

Humans are creative by nature..It is good to honor God with creativity that comes from your heart. The birth of Christ the Messiah is not a man-made doctrine. It is God's doctrine, and so is the joy and hope that surrounds His birth. It is also scripturally sound.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Oblio,
as can I...please read what I wrote. I said they purposely chose to observe these two events without any Biblical instructtion and purposely placed them on Pagan days. I did not say that Pagans instituted the observance of the resurrection or birth of Christ.


Why can you not address the bottom line?

Is there ANY INSTRUCTION to observe these days? NO!

Are we to participate in Pagan observances or to use Pagan traditions for any reason.? NO!

Are there any instruction not to observe these days?

 

[openeyes]

Deuteronomy 12: 26-32, NKJV:
"When the LORD your God cuts off from before you the nations which you go to dispossess, and you displace them and dwell in their land, take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, "How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.' You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.
"Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.

We do not celebrate their traditions..... we only placed our own on their day.
The scripture only tells of one celebration, Passover. So by your own interpretation we cannot celebrate our own birthdays, independence days, or any other "holidays".
Also this was written before Jesus was born, and is part of the old covenent.

 

[Achichem]

We do not celebrate their traditions..... we only placed our own on their day.

but it says "You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way"

" Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it."

The scripture only tells of one celebration, Passover. So by your own interpretation we cannot celebrate our own birthdays, independence days, or any other "holidays".

scripture says to celerbrate many thing other then passover;
plus, I am not talking about what day you celebrate, nor what you celebrate, for all day our the LORDs, and Christ is always a good subject, but that does not change that the traditions of y-mas are pagan, or the fact that G-d comdems the combing of His worship with pagan ways.You can not sow together two diffrent cloths...Some christian do this(keep what is christ, alone), and that is why I earlier said best fo luck to them, but most do not.

Also this was written before Jesus was born, and is part of the old covenent.

, not this again,
Hey if you don't want to celebrate the feasts G-d said were His,that your choice, If you want ot make you own day to celebrate,that your choice,isn't charis great.
but remember:
"G-d is the same yesterday,today,and forever", Rabbi Saul
and
"A shadow reflects it keeper", Rabbi Til'mon

 

[water_ripple]

but it says "You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way"

" Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it."

Giving, loving, and hope in Jesus Christ is what Christmas is all about..and what a beautiful way the Spirit can touch someone at this time..Over all the darkness and confusion the light shines through, and God's love for His children is made very plain. Winter solstice is refered as yule..This of course is not the reason our family celebrates Christmas. He knows what is in our hearts..Make some cookies and give them to people in your neighborhood..there is nothing better than seeing happiness appear on the faces of others..It is not the cookie itself that makes them happy, but the Spirit that moves.

scripture says to celerbrate many thing other then passover;
plus, I am not talking about what day you celebrate, nor what you celebrate, for all day our the LORDs, and Christ is always a good subject, but that does not change that the traditions of y-mas are pagan, or the fact that G-d comdems the combing of His worship with pagan ways.You can not sow together two diffrent cloths...Some christian do this(keep what is christ, alone), and that is why I earlier said best fo luck to them, but most do not.

I am sure pagans do not celebrate Christmas because of the birth of the Messiah. I am sure though that they celebrate winter solstice, and out of the mouth of a pagan I have heard..Yes Christians should boycott Christmas because it is messing up what I am teaching them about yule..I suppose peace and goodwill toward men speaks louder than pagan celebrations of the winter solstice..

but remember:
"G-d is the same yesterday,today,and forever", Rabbi Saul
and
"A shadow reflects it keeper", Rabbi Til'mon

Yes he is the same always..and likewise we should celebrate Christ. Our shadows will reflect their keeper as the Spirit moves us, and when we move as one we are blessed. Since when does it matter that a certian day is what pagans consider their day? Every day belongs to God. There is no such thing as winter solstice or yule to God..the birth of Christ IS.

 

[Achichem]

Water ripple,

Don't get me wrong, I am not against the day, I am only agist the pagan part(oblgatory gifts,holly,evergreen trees,y-mas trees, many offenive christmas storys/songs)

and Most of all;
I am not impressed at how y-mas replaced G-d's own Holy Feasts!
So remember;if you can keep your y-mas, remember the Spirit when his Holy Days come around(lev. 23).

 

[FatherApe]

Tonight was the seasonal celebration over to the elementary school. The choir director announced we would be singing songs to celebrate "that holiday in December". Then, the children proceeded to sing "Rudolph", a Kwanza song, "Felice Navidad" and 2 or 3 other songs.

The entire event managed to pass without a single mention of the words "Christ" or "Christmas" in spoken voice or in song. It's absurd the lengths we've gone to in our silly school system to protect children from having to hear that name.

 

[water_ripple]

Water ripple,

Don't get me wrong, I am not against the day, I am only agist the pagan part(oblgatory gifts,holly,evergreen trees,y-mas trees, many offenive christmas storys/songs)

My hubby said Christmas is a time of want and I said no Christmas is a time of giving and hope..The thing is both of the sides are true..When someone wants for something giving should come freely with love..not out of "obligation" or for materalistic purposes..IMO people should slow down and listen to the quietness of what Christmas is all about. Family, love, hope, and faith in Jesus Christ. Actually the birth of Christ when we celebrate it is filled with joy, but the other side of this is that the great peace that Christ fills the soul with is so silencing that what the pagans are doing is completely overshadowed by God and has been for centuries. Actions that are done in reverence to God have litteraly silenced people because His peace is consuming and awesome...In our house we have a Christmas tree. An angel sits on top (representing the angel of the Lord) Every ornament represents the blessings of God, and the little lights represent the light that shines in the darkness. The gifts I give are gifts of love in the spirit of Christ. The Nativity is the complete reason for all of this and at this time of year all Christians move as one. All of the sudden denomonations take a backseat to what God wants of His children. Personally I feel we could all learn a lesson this time of year, and act as one all year round for when we act in the Spirit as one we are doing God's will.

and Most of all;
I am not impressed at how y-mas replaced G-d's own Holy Feasts!
So remember;if you can keep your y-mas, remember the Spirit when his Holy Days come around(lev. 23).

All days are Holy, and to be used for God all year long. Christmas and Easter are very effective days that they are "placed" on. The pagans may think seasonal celebrations and magic are overshadowing God on those days, but in reality nobody can ignore the peace and hope of those holidays. It is up to us as Christians to teach our children about Y we observe holidays...for the only way that secularism or paganism will be rid of is if we act with one accord in the Spirit of Christ...the way in which we are intended to function.

 

[openeyes]

but it says "You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way"

" Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it."
scripture says to celerbrate many thing other then passover;
plus, I am not talking about what day you celebrate, nor what you celebrate, for all day our the LORDs, and Christ is always a good subject, but that does not change that the traditions of y-mas are pagan, or the fact that G-d comdems the combing of His worship with pagan ways.You can not sow together two diffrent cloths...Some christian do this(keep what is christ, alone), and that is why I earlier said best fo luck to them, but most do not.
, not this again,
Hey if you don't want to celebrate the feasts G-d said were His,that your choice, If you want ot make you own day to celebrate,that your choice,isn't charis great.
but remember:
"G-d is the same yesterday,today,and forever", Rabbi Saul
and
"A shadow reflects it keeper", Rabbi Til'mon

I see, obviously we compare oranges to tangerines, (same basic family yet different).
In our household we keep our meaning very forfront, giving to each other represents the gifts given to our Christ at his birth, they are given in love not by obligation.
Thank you for your insite.
God bless.

 

[Sinai]

Every Christian down in Christville liked Christmas a lot…

But the Grinch, who lived just north of Christville, did NOT!

The Grinch hated Christmas! The whole Christmas season!

Now, please don’t ask why. No one quite knows the reason.

It could be his head wasn’t screwed on just right.

It could be, perhaps, that his shoes were too tight.

But I think that the most likely reason of all

May have been that his heart was two sizes too small.

But, whether it’s his heart or shoes, or whatever the reason,

He stood there on Christmas Eve, hating the whole Christmas season.

Staring down from his cave with a sour, Grinchy frown

At the warm lighted windows below in the town.

For he knew every Christian down in Christville beneath

Was busy now hanging up a Christmas wreath.

“And they’re wrapping their packages!” he snarled with a sneer.

“Tomorrow is Christmas! It’s practically here!”

Then he growled, with his Grinch fingers nervously drumming,

“I MUST find some way to stop Christmas from coming!”

For he knew the Christians would do what he liked least of all:

Every Christian in Christville, the tall and the small,

Would read about Jesus, with Christmas bells ringing.

Then they’d stand hand-in-hand. And then they’d start singing!

And the more the Grinch thought of the carols they’d sing,

The more the Grinch thought, “I must stop this whole thing!

“Why, for 53 years I’ve put up with it now!

“I MUST stop this Christmas from coming! …..But HOW?”

Then he got an idea! An awful idea!

THE GRINCH GOT A WONDERFUL, AWFUL IDEA!

“I know just what to do!” the Grinch’s voice soared.

And away he flew to his computer keyboard.

He looked up “Christmas” when he got on line,

And found pagan customs it had replaced way back in time.

“If I can convince the Christians down there

“That celebrating Christmas is a satanic snare,

“Then they’ll stop remembering the Christ child’s birth.

“No goodwill to men! No more ‘Peace on Earth!’”

So he posted his message on each Christian board

That celebrating Christmas wasn’t really honoring the Lord.

“No, Indeed!” the Grinch posted. “Haven’t you heard?

“By celebrating His birth, you’re violating His word.

“Especially by celebrating at this time of year,

“You’ve left yourself open to pagan influences, I fear.

“All Christians repent!” he told each girl and each boy,

“And stop all this nonsense about Yuletide Joy!

“Christ said honor His death---but said naught of his birth.

“So you’re really in error to proclaim ‘Peace on Earth!’”

The Christians responded by taking the Grinch to task.

“Why’s this guy so riled up?” they tended to ask.

But the Grinch was ready. He was clever and quick:

He next posed questions about dear old Saint Nick.

He combined various scriptures so that all could see

That the pretty decorations made an idol of the tree.

“When you get the presents out from under those trees,

“You’re in a worship position: You’re down on your knees!”

The Christians protested, “The tree’s not our god!”

But the Grinch responded, “Don’t you think that it’s odd

“That the Bible never commanded this particular celebration?

“It’s not a Jewish holiday for the Israeli nation.

“Celebrating Christmas violates God’s word!”

But the Christians objected, “This is really absurd!”

And they started fighting among one another

And forgot God’s commandment to love each other.

As the bickering spread across the boards,

The Grinch’s smile widened and his spirits soared.

For he had turned the attention away from God’s love---

Away from God’s gift from Heaven above.

If Christians forget the commission God gave

For us to tell the world how He came to save

All people from the power of sin,

And we lose sight of those we’re to love and to win

Then Christmas will no longer be that time of year

When we recall how the Word became flesh and dwelt with us here.

Don’t let that happen. Remember God’s love,

And remember His marvelous gift from above.

So tell the good news of the Eternal Light:

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night!

 

[water_ripple]

Romans 14:5-10 One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. (7) For none of us liveth to himself, an no man dieth to himself. (8) For wether we live, we live unto the Lord; and wether we die, we die unto the Lord; wther we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. (9) For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and the living. (10) But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ.

 

[adam332]

This would be the same church that has named their self-introduced observance of the resurrection after the Teutonic Goddess of fertitlity, Easter. And incorporated eggs and rabbits(Pagan fertility symbols) into said observance. Interestingly they also change the Sunday that their observance is held every 7 years to make sure that it does not coincide with passover...in effort to separate themselves from anything that appeared Jewish.

All you have is a consistent blasphemous pattern and claims of the church with circular logic to back it up, all the while in direct contradiction to the Bible. The RCC is not the Church all true believers of the Lord are the church. You and I belong to a church denomination. My denomination is not "THE" church anymore than yours is. The people are the church, period.

 

[adam332]

Water ripple,
that is not contextually relevant to this conversation. Paul is speaking specifically about feasting and fasting days.

 

[water_ripple]

Water ripple,
that is not contextually relevant to this conversation. Paul is speaking specifically about feasting and fasting days.

Actually he is speaking about harmony in Christianity..this fits quite well..as well as the fact of not judging others salvation because all of us will be going to the judgement seat of Christ.

 

[water_ripple]

This would be the same church that has named their self-introduced observance of the resurrection after the Teutonic Goddess of fertitlity, Easter. And incorporated eggs and rabbits(Pagan fertility symbols) into said observance. Interestingly they also change the Sunday that their observance is held every 7 years to make sure that it does not coincide with passover...in effort to separate themselves from anything that appeared Jewish.

All you have is a consistent blasphemous pattern and claims of the church with circular logic to back it up, all the while in direct contradiction to the Bible. The RCC is not the Church all true believers of the Lord are the church. You and I belong to a church denomination. My denomination is not "THE" church anymore than yours is. The people are the church, period.

As I remeber correctly Paul was ordained by God to minister. I have no specific denomination. I am merely a Christian. My salvation is not found in stone buildings or lack thereof neither is it found in laws, but rather in faith of Jesus Christ our Lord. For nobody stands righteous according to the law..everyone falls short to the glory of God and are convicted by them. That is what the grace of Christ is all about..for if one only lives by the law and not the faith thereby they are convicted of the law. If I be guilty because of my faith in Christ then my punishment will be fitting. Faith comes through circumsion of the heart..not of the body. For yes we must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[Oblio]

This would be the same church that has named their self-introduced observance of the resurrection after the Teutonic Goddess of fertitlity, Easter. And incorporated eggs and rabbits(Pagan fertility symbols) into said observance. Interestingly they also change the Sunday that their observance is held every 7 years to make sure that it does not coincide with passover...in effort to separate themselves from anything that appeared Jewish.

All you have is a consistent blasphemous pattern and claims of the church with circular logic to back it up, all the while in direct contradiction to the Bible. The RCC is not the Church all true believers of the Lord are the church. You and I belong to a church denomination. My denomination is not "THE" church anymore than yours is. The people are the church, period.

Please show evidence that the feast of Pascha is anything other than the celebration of the Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. You have not once shown where Traditions of the Church are contrary to Holy Scripture, in fact to say so is nonsense as Scripture is part of Holy Tradition and Tradition cannot contradict itself.

I would also be careful of calling the works of the Holy Spirit blasphemous.

 

[Oblio]

Oh, eggs dyed red and blessed on Pascha are symbolic of the new birth that we all have through His blood. I guess you can call that pagan, if you deny the Ressurection ...

 

[adam332]

No it does not fit well. He was speaking of specific days. That is removing the context and trying to make it apply to any day you so choose. It holds no bearing on this conversation. That is like someone taking scripture where the Lord instructed his people to destroy some specific ungodly people and using it to justify someone you feel is ungodly and think it's ok to kill.

 

[adam332]

YOU REFUSE TO ADDRESS THE BOTTOM LINE!

You cannot honor God by disobeying him!!

 

[Oblio]

Please show us where God is being disobeyed (in your opinion of course)