Taking "Christ" Out of "Christmas"

[adam332]

Oblio,
as can I...please read what I wrote. I said they purposely chose to observe these two events without any Biblical instructtion and purposely placed them on Pagan days. I did not say that Pagans instituted the observance of the resurrection or birth of Christ.


Why can you not address the bottom line?

Is there ANY INSTRUCTION to observe these days? NO!

Are we to participate in Pagan observances or to use Pagan traditions for any reason.? NO!

 

[Oblio]

Evolution of December 25

Pagan holiday --> (sprinkle on some holy water) "Christian" holy day --> secular day on par with Kwanzaa.

Cite !

 

[Oblio]

Is there ANY INSTRUCTION to observe these days? NO!

Are we to participate in Pagan observances or to use Pagan traditions for any reason.? NO!

Sure there is, you just choose to limit instruction and God's word to your interpretation of Holy Scripture. Most other Christians do not. There is no evidence that that the feast of the Nativity of Christ is a pagan tradition or observance. The feast of the Nativity of Christ is a celebration of the Incarnation of God as 100% God/100% man to effect our salvation. I challenge you to provide Scripture that prohibits celebrating that which the Angels themselves celebrated.

Luk 2:11-20 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (12) And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. (13) And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, (14) Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. (15) And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us. (16) And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger. (17) And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child. (18) And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds. (19) But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart. (20) And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.

 

[adam332]

I'm not going to go round and round with you about something I never said, please read and address what I actually wrote.

 

[adam332]

BTW angels celebrated when he was born...nowhere does it say that they did so as any sort of observance since then and nowhere does it say that we are to observe it. Those are the facts....can't deall with your man-made doctrines...then don't look at me I didn't forbid them, God did.

 

[adam332]

2Tim. 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Pet. 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Isa. 51:7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

John 12:43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Col. 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using; after the commandments and doctrines of men?

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain.

Psa. 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

Jer. 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

Eph. 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

1 Thes. 2:13 "...the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth..."

Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

1Cor. 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Rom. 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Acts 5:38 "...Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:"

Mark 8:33 "...Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men."

Mark 7:8 "For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men..."

Mat. 16:23 "...Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men."

Isa. 29:13 "...with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:"

Eccl. 8:11 "...the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil."

Eccl. 9:3 "...the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead."

Rev. 20:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Deu. 4:1-2 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you. Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Pro. 30:5-6 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Psa. 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever."

 

[openeyes]

Does the Word say not to celebate anything?
Isn't easier to make this new belief palitable to the pagans of old, by using thier own clebrations? I believe our Christ used some Jewish traditions to help convert Jews. Was he wrong? His doctorine was differing from that of Moses, which he also recieve some from our God.
Picking single verses out of context is the very method used to turn so many from God and make them believe that there is no hope. The doctorine of a man, be it inline with our own is not harmful, maybe it's God himself making it easier to swallow for those whose contact is limited. Docterines of man that are referenced, by the Christ, are doctorines that exclude our God or our saviour.
As a suggestion maybe instead of finger pointing and condemning you should find an approach that is more loving and compassionate. We will all be judged by our works and what is our heart. My conscience is clear and I find no sin in celebrating the birth of Jesus at any time be it Dec. 25 (winter solstice I believe) or in September.

 

[Achichem]

Isn't easier to make this new belief palitable to the pagans of old, by using thier own clebrations?

Deuteronomy 12: 26-32, NKJV:
"When the LORD your God cuts off from before you the nations which you go to dispossess, and you displace them and dwell in their land, take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, "How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.' You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.
"Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.

 

[water_ripple]

Hallehuia! A Savior is born into the world! Definte call for a celebration!

This seems to be a hot topic of late..I dunno about everyone else, but around this time of year people tend to seek for God and to be reconciled unto Him. Let them come and seek Christ. It's not about Santa or reindeer or elves..It's about peace on earth and goodwill toward men. Do I celebrate the winter solstice? No I celebrate the promise of God for a Messiah...I dunno if anyone else has noticed, but the celebration of the birth of Christ tends to move people even if they are unbelieving. A tree or a few bits of tinsel cannot stand in the way of God, and many of us are living proof of that...

Ya know my parents weren't perfect, and I felt that they had betrayed me about Santa. We always had a tree and all the trimmings..Patience, kindness, and love seemed to dwell in our home at that time of year..One year I wondered Y the star always went on top of the tree..the answer was wonderful..they told me it signified the star that led the shepards to Bethlehem...after that I realized that Christmas was about giving. That was one of the first connections I had to Jesus Christ..giving and love. I really did not understand all of that as a child, but with innocence I believed.

Later in life I was disheartend, and wondered where my Savior had gone. I rebelled against my parents (as most teens do) and God. At Christmas time though I could feel His true Spirit working through my family and strangers who were filled with love and goodwill.

I came to find out that my Savior had never left me, and after I had gone long enough trying to ignore Him that I found Him. After I had been broken spiritually I found Him. He was there for me with open arms, and I thank God that my eyes and heart have been opened so that I may receive Him. I also thank God that I was blessed with a family that could show the love of Christ despite the fact that they were inperfect.

So go ahead and teach your children about the real reasons we celebrate Christmas..It may leave a lasting impression upon them even if they are lost.

 

[dctalkexp]

Celebrating Christmas is fine, and can be honoring to God. Many people as a family read the story of Christ's birth on Christmas day as a memory of the glorious day. Yes, the Angels celebrated too. No, we aren't commanded to remember Christ's birth on a certain day, but it surely does show that we care and love Jesus Christ.
To act like someone isn't saved because they celebrate the the birth of Christ on Christmas day is a very sad thing indeed.

Galatians 5:22:
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Let's show these fruits of the spirit and not condemn people for celebrating the birth of Christ.

God bless.

 

[adam332]

2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

 

[dctalkexp]

Does the Bible say that it is wrong to have a Christmas tree?

We understand your concerns about the use of the Christmas tree, specifically in relationship to Jeremiah 10:1-5. These verses do not apply to Christmas trees, but they do condemn the idolatry practiced in Jeremiah's day. God's people were following the customs of the heathen who cut down trees, shaped the wood into idols, decorated them with silver and gold ornaments, and worshiped them as gods.

It is important that we keep Christ central and our worship of Him unhindered in our observance of Christmas. However, we do not believe it is unbiblical to have a Christmas tree lighted and decorated in the home or the church. It has been suggested that the branches of the tree pointing upward can signify praise to God. The star at the top can represent the star of Bethlehem. Also, the green of the evergreens has been recognized as symbolic of eternal life, God's gift to us through our Lord Jesus Christ.

http://www.billygraham.org/qna/qna.asp?i=565

 

[adam332]

Nowhere have I said that celebrating the Lord's human manifestation into this world to be wrong. I said that NOWHERE in the Bible is it instructed, period.

To purposely place such an observance on a Pagan day and to purposely incorporate Pagan symbols into your personal Christian observance is wrong. or to join in with those who have decided to is wrong.

If you are that adamant about celebrating his birth, then find a way that truly honors him and his wishes.

Keep yourself separate from the world and their ways.
You cannot honor God by disobeying him.

 

[Oblio]

2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

Psst.

The Christmas tree is a Western Protestant invention, coming 1500+ years after Christ was born. Has not a thing to do with that Scripture that you quoted.

 

[adam332]

Actually that is a practice that is addressed a few verses later in Jer. 10. It is different from that of cutting down a tree and decorating it which was also a heathen practice that worked it's way into todays observance. Just as the symbolic pagan use of mistletoe, holly, and yule-logs made their way in. Of course when the Pagans did that to a tree it was not called a Christmas tree, that is what Christians who incorporated this custom called it. Just as the statue of Jupiter in St.Peter's Cathedral is call Peter.

They are Pagan symbols given Christian significance, which is totally understandable in a culture that was split between these two opposites beliefs. And with a governing authority who consistently tried to mesh the two together.

 

[Oblio]

This is what you said.

The religious obeservance of Sunday was instituted by Pagans as was Dec. 25. God gave them no religious significance whatsoever, neither did he instruct anyone to observe his birth day...EVER! Man has chose to do this...by itself this may have been a harmless concept even if it was not Biblical. What makes it inherrently wrong is that MAN PURPOSELY placed these days it decided on to coincide with Pagan days and then incorporated Pagan symbols and called them Christian. You cannot honor God by disobeying him..that's the bottom line. Any effort to do so will not convince me, because I read His word and I already know how he feels. He thinks of such behavior as an abomination no matter how you try to justify it. If you have a problem with it don't whine to me...I didn't write His holy word.

God did indeed give the Feast of the Nativity and Sunday religious significance. The Nativity feast was celebrated by Angels and shepherds and God instructed us though His Church (not pagans as you assert) to do the same. The same occured with Sunday celebration of the Risen Christ.

 

[adam332]

[noflame]

[notroll]

 

[Oblio]

I never insinuated that man had authority. I said the Church, the pillar and foundation of all truth had that authority. You have forgotten a little event called Pentecost, that changed how the Holy Spirit spoke to man. The Jewish Scribes and authorities were not the Church, nor were they Prophets of old and as such had no authority to speak the word of God. The CHurch however is the Body of Christ, Militant and Triumphant with authority and teaching given through and of the Holy Spirit.

 

[g4goddess]

BTW angels celebrated when he was born...nowhere does it say that they did so as any sort of observance since then and nowhere does it say that we are to observe it. Those are the facts....can't deall with your man-made doctrines...then don't look at me I didn't forbid them, God did.

Just because it doesnt say we have to, doesn't mean we can't. Maybe there are those of us who WANT to celebrate the birth of our Saviour.

It's sad that you refuse to find joy in that. Who cares about where the traditions came from? I'm sure that God doesn't, because he knows our hearts better than we do.

 

[pmarquette]

some cat said " evil only thrives where good men do nothing to oppose it "

the world cannot celebrate christmas without christ , they do not know him . we can , we do when we help out contact ministries , salvation army , angel tree , give some spare change to a poor person ...


how about putting up a stone monument in front yard with Jesus's shopping list on it [ Matthew 25.32-42 ] ,
understand there are a lot of monuments with the 10
commandments on them available at this time ....