Syria: Broken Nation

[interpreter]

This thread is messed up. For nearly 1500 years now, Sunnis have been killing Shiites and the Shiites have been killing Sunnis. We should not get involved and let them kill each other to their hearts content UNLESS one side or the other starts killing Christians as ISIS is doing. Assad has not killed one Christian as far as I know, and is definitely the lesser of the two evils in Syria. We need to stop trying to illegally dethrone him and start backing Assad and Putin in their fight against ISIS. Any enemy of ISIS (who love to behead Christians) is our friend.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

It should be ended so the people can take their country back. The going to other countries thing should ONLY be a temporary solution. Stabilizing Syria and getting rid of ISIS would make it so they could all go back home.

About 900 refugees in Germany were given a survey (some of these were multiple choice). 52% said that they would only go back once Assad is removed (2nd only to 68% saying the war has to stop; 44% said ISIS had to leave the country). 58% thought more Syrians would stay in Syria if a NFZ was enforced to protect them from the regime's barrel bombs & aerial attacks. 79% said the Syrian authorities and their lethal military response to demonstrations are what led to the what is happening in Syria today, 70% said Assad and allied groups were responsible for the fighting (followed by 32% saying it was ISIS), and 73% said barrel bombs were a threat to their personal safety. So basically....Assad/regime is the bigger culprit to them (and his removal is essential to the majority of the refugees in order to go back). Only 8% of those surveyed said they don't want to go back to Syria.

What Refugees Think

Assad is definitely the lesser of two evils.

....yet Assad is the lesser of two evils?

We need to back Assad and Putin in their fight against ISIS.

Putin says he's only fighting ISIS in Syria. Buuuut.... Only One in Five Russian Strikes in Syria Target ISIS, Analysis Shows

"Almost 80 percent of Russia's declared targets in Syria have been in areas not held by Islamic State, a Reuters analysis of Russian Defense Ministry data shows, undermining Moscow's assertions that its aim is to defeat the group...The majority of strikes, according to the analysis, have instead been in areas held by other groups opposed to Syrian President Bashar Assad."

""If you look at the map, you can easily understand that they are not fighting Islamic State but other opposition groups," said Alexander Golts, a Moscow-based defense columnist and deputy editor of online newspaper Yezhednevny Zhurnal."

Any enemy of ISIS (who love to kill Christians) is our friend.

So you should definitely back the rebels and/or the Kurds since they're the ones fighting against ISIS the most (with the rebels also fighting the regime).

 

[seashale76]

About 900 refugees in Germany were given a survey (some of these were multiple choice). 52% said that they would only go back once Assad is removed (2nd only to 68% saying the war has to stop; 44% said ISIS had to leave the country). 58% thought more Syrians would stay in Syria if a NFZ was enforced to protect them from the regime's barrel bombs & aerial attacks. 79% said the Syrian authorities and their lethal military response to demonstrations are what led to the what is happening in Syria today, 70% said Assad and allied groups were responsible for the fighting (followed by 32% saying it was ISIS), and 73% said barrel bombs were a threat to their personal safety. So basically....Assad/regime is the bigger culprit to them (and his removal is essential to the majority of the refugees in order to go back). Only 8% of those surveyed said they don't want to go back to Syria.

What Refugees Think

....yet Assad is the lesser of two evils?



Putin says he's only fighting ISIS in Syria. Buuuut.... Only One in Five Russian Strikes in Syria Target ISIS, Analysis Shows

"Almost 80 percent of Russia's declared targets in Syria have been in areas not held by Islamic State, a Reuters analysis of Russian Defense Ministry data shows, undermining Moscow's assertions that its aim is to defeat the group...The majority of strikes, according to the analysis, have instead been in areas held by other groups opposed to Syrian President Bashar Assad."

""If you look at the map, you can easily understand that they are not fighting Islamic State but other opposition groups," said Alexander Golts, a Moscow-based defense columnist and deputy editor of online newspaper Yezhednevny Zhurnal."


So you should definitely back the rebels and/or the Kurds since they're the ones fighting against ISIS the most (with the rebels also fighting the regime).

I don't back the rebels at all. I think they're ISIS. And if Syrians are actually claiming they dislike Assad more than ISIS then that tells me that most sympathize with ISIS and I don't truck with that.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

I don't back the rebels at all. I think they're ISIS. And if Syrians are actually claiming they dislike Assad more than ISIS then that tells me that most sympathize with ISIS and I don't truck with that.

Assad hasn't been wishing death to the western world, which is probably why so many western nations back him. all the rebels are impossible to distinguish from ISIS so they all get lumped together.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

I don't back the rebels at all. I think they're ISIS.

The rebels are fighting against ISIS and most of ISIS' verified attacks in 2014 were against the rebels and Kurdish forces (whereas only 13% were against Assad). Where do you get the understanding that the rebels and ISIS are the same?

And if Syrians are actually claiming they dislike Assad more than ISIS then that tells me that most sympathize with ISIS and I don't truck with that.

They can despise both while knowing that one of them has started this whole conflict and caused greater suffering and civilian death (i.e. the regime as shown in the infographic in my previous post). I think I posted this article earlier:

Barrel Bombs, Not ISIS, Are the Greatest Threat to Syrians

Assad is the root problem.

 

[interpreter]

About 900 refugees in Germany were given a survey (some of these were multiple choice). 52% said that they would only go back once Assad is removed (2nd only to 68% saying the war has to stop; 44% said ISIS had to leave the country). 58% thought more Syrians would stay in Syria if a NFZ was enforced to protect them from the regime's barrel bombs & aerial attacks. 79% said the Syrian authorities and their lethal military response to demonstrations are what led to the what is happening in Syria today, 70% said Assad and allied groups were responsible for the fighting (followed by 32% saying it was ISIS), and 73% said barrel bombs were a threat to their personal safety. So basically....Assad/regime is the bigger culprit to them (and his removal is essential to the majority of the refugees in order to go back). Only 8% of those surveyed said they don't want to go back to Syria.

What Refugees Think

....yet Assad is the lesser of two evils?

Correct. We should not care one iota about how many Muslims Assad has killed. He has not killed one Christian, while ISIS has killed thousands of Christians.

Putin says he's only fighting ISIS in Syria. Buuuut.... Only One in Five Russian Strikes in Syria Target ISIS, Analysis Shows

"Almost 80 percent of Russia's declared targets in Syria have been in areas not held by Islamic State, a Reuters analysis of Russian Defense Ministry data shows, undermining Moscow's assertions that its aim is to defeat the group...The majority of strikes, according to the analysis, have instead been in areas held by other groups opposed to Syrian President Bashar Assad."

""If you look at the map, you can easily understand that they are not fighting Islamic State but other opposition groups," said Alexander Golts, a Moscow-based defense columnist and deputy editor of online newspaper Yezhednevny Zhurnal."

So? We should applaud any help we get.

So you should definitely back the rebels and/or the Kurds since they're the ones fighting against ISIS the most (with the rebels also fighting the regime).

We should not back anyone who is fighting against the legal ruler of Syria who has not killed one Christian. As for the Kurds, we should probably back them because they have proven to be a very strong ally in Iraq in the war against ISIS there.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I mostly remember the Vietnam war, as I served from '68-'71.....war is hell

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Putin says he's only fighting ISIS in Syria. Buuuut.... Only One in Five Russian Strikes in Syria Target ISIS, Analysis Shows

1. Putin never said any such thing.
2. The reason why Russian airstrikes have focused most strongly on al-Nusra for the simple reason that they are doing the bulk of the fighting against the Syrian government at this time.
3. It is terribly strange that any Westerner would complain about the bombing of Al-Nusra, considering how they're the Syrian affiliate of AL-QAEDA!

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

So? We should applaud any help we get.

Yes. Applaud the man who shoots down civilian planes and ambulances and strikes hospitals.

We should not back anyone who is fighting against the legal ruler of Syria who has not killed one Christian.

I posted before:

lol, I didn't know there were people who actually believed he won the election. Found this online (confirmed them):

Syrian Arab Republic election results:
1949: 99.4% Husni al-Za'im
1953: 99.7% Adib Shishakli
1958: 99.9% Nasser (during Union with Egypt)
1971: 99.2% Hafez al-Assad
1978: 99.9% Hafez al-Assad
1985: 100% Hafez al-Assad
1991: 100% Hafez al-Assad
1999: 100% Hafez al-Assad
2000: 99.7% Bashar al-Assad
2007: 97.6% Bashar al-Assad
2014: 88.7% Bashar al-Assad (probably to make it look a smidge more believable)

LOL. Seriously, this makes me laugh every time I look at it.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

1. Putin never said any such thing.

Sorry, clumsily worded. Putin said:

"Russian President Vladimir Putin said the country had begun a campaign of airstrikes in Syria targeting ISIS militants, but opposition sources and footage from the ground appeared to show that it was targeting Western-backed rebels instead."

Russia’s Anti-ISIS Airstrike Campaign Begins With Attack On Western-Backed Rebel Areas

also "The military aim of our operations will be exclusively to provide air support to Syrian government forces in their struggle against ISIS," Ivanov added.

Pentagon: Russia Airstrikes Are 'Pouring Gasoline on a Fire'

2. The reason why Russian airstrikes have focused most strongly on al-Nusra for the simple reason that they are doing the bulk of the fighting against the Syrian government at this time.
3. It is terribly strange that any Westerner would complain about the bombing of Al-Nusra, considering how they're the Syrian affiliate of AL-QAEDA!

And ugh, fox news but oh well. I think some members (especially anti-Muslim ones) may accept them more readily than other sources: Official: Russia ‘deliberately targeting’ US-backed forces in Syria

""Putin is deliberately targeting our forces," a U.S. official, who is disappointed in the U.S. response to Russia, told Fox News.

"Our guys are fighting for their lives," said the official, estimating up to 150 CIA-trained moderate rebels have been killed by the Russians."

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Citing the Pentagon and Fox News to bolster your positions, and on top of that suggesting that if the CIA trained them they must be good guys, because we all know the CIA wouldn't do anything wrong would they? Are you going neocon?

 

[Oafman]

I don't back the rebels at all. I think they're ISIS

Do you think the rebels who are fighting ISIS are ISIS?

Assad hasn't been wishing death to the western world, which is probably why so many western nations back him

Which western nations back him?

 

[Nithavela]

Sadly, the fronts are not so clear, down there. One rebel group that is fighting ISIS one week might strike up an opportune alliance with them the week after that, perhaps call in a suicide truck.

 

[Jack of Spades]

It's really tragic what's going on in there, but honestly, how many good political options there are to actually do something for Western nations?

We've seen enough times what happens if foreign ground troops go to such messy place. In those situations it won't take long before the troops and the civilians there are killing each others, tends to happen every time (f.e. Vietnam, Somalia, Iraq). Only situation which ground troops can solve, is one where there is clear foreign invasion of another country (ww2 western europe, first gulf war) but this is more like civil war, everyone entering the place will be sucked in the mess with little good to do and no reasonable way out.

I'd say the best policy (and by "best", I don't mean it's good by any standards or that it's not cynical) is to make sure ISIS won't win it, cause it has already declared war on pretty much everyone in the world. Other than that, I have no idea what should be done.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Which western nations back him?

Well I am probably just speaking for america. my apologies.

 

[Oafman]

Well I am probably just speaking for america. my apologies.

America doesn't back Assad. Quite the opposite.

Assad's only friends are Russia and Iran

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

America doesn't back Assad. Quite the opposite.

Assad's only friends are Russia and Iran

Let me downgrade yet again. I am only speaking of people I know then. My friends prefer Assad's iron fisted tyranny over potential terrorist camps that target western countries.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Citing the Pentagon and Fox News to bolster your positions, and on top of that suggesting that if the CIA trained them they must be good guys, because we all know the CIA wouldn't do anything wrong would they? Are you going neocon?

1.) Did the Pentagon force Ivanlov (the Kremlin chief-of-staff) to say that about Russia?
2.) Stop shifting the goalposts. You talked about Jabhat an-Nusra and I showed how they're targeting any rebels and not ISIS.

Sadly, the fronts are not so clear, down there. One rebel group that is fighting ISIS one week might strike up an opportune alliance with them the week after that, perhaps call in a suicide truck.

Can you tell me what you base this on and how many times it has happened since late 2013/early 2014 and by whom?

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Excellent video:

 

[Nithavela]

Can you tell me what you base this on and how many times it has happened since late 2013/early 2014 and by whom?

I read it in a german magazine a few weeks ago. I'm not sure if I can find it as an english web link, but I have little problem believing it.