Synagogue discovered with icon-like mosaics

[Macarius]

From the late 4th / early 5th century.

Mosaic in Israel shows biblical Samson - CNN.com

There are even earlier ones with icon-like images, but this just adds fuel to the fire that the Christians did not borrow their iconography wholesale from Rome in some kind of sharp break with an iconoclastic Judaism. Iconoclasm, as a calling card of non-Christian monotheism, originates with ISLAM - not Judaism. Jews were perfectly fine using images in worship so long as they did not (one presumes) worship the images.

Really interesting.

Don't read the comments underneath the article; as this is on CNN, ANY article (of ANY type) becomes nothing but an occasion for idiots to bash religion with rather poor argumentation and spelling.

 

[ArmyMatt]

very interesting. I remember reading something like that in another article a few months ago. seems iconography in Judea was not uncommon

 

[Dorothea]

Cool. And this is a new find, not connected, it seems, to the awesome find from that town of Europa (I think that's what it was called). That's pretty exciting. Thanks for sharing, Macarius!

 

[27B6]

Interesting!

 

[snowpumpkin]

Is there any evidence that they used those images as we use icons? I mean, my kids have illustrated children's bibles, but those images aren't blessed by the church or made into wonder-working icons like we do with our actual icons at church and at home. And veneration? Did they practice that?

I think those are the bigger issues, not merely having images, but how they are used.

 

[MariaRegina]

Thanks for posting this article.

Great find.

Notice the hair coloring of Samson: Light brown, like that of Christ.
Isn't Samson venerated as a Saint in Orthodoxy?

 

[Hentenza]

Cool. And this is a new find, not connected, it seems, to the awesome find from that town of Europa (I think that's what it was called). That's pretty exciting. Thanks for sharing, Macarius!

It is called the "Wall with Torah Niche" from a house synagogue in Dura-Europos, Syria and dated to 244-245AD.

 

[Macarius]

It is called the "Wall with Torah Niche" from a house synagogue in Dura-Europos, Syria and dated to 244-245AD.

Yes - to clarify, though, this article is about a new find in Israel/Palestine. It confirms what Dura-Europos has shown us as a continuing, and non-isolated, tradition within the Judaism of the late antiquity within the Roman Empire.

 

[Macarius]

Is there any evidence that they used those images as we use icons? I mean, my kids have illustrated children's bibles, but those images aren't blessed by the church or made into wonder-working icons like we do with our actual icons at church and at home. And veneration? Did they practice that?

I think those are the bigger issues, not merely having images, but how they are used.

For a lot of scholarship and popular thought (which, in the English speaking world, is deeply influenced by Protestant iconoclasm), though, the very idea of religious imagery within the worship space of a monotheistic religion is an "invention" Christianity and a fairly late one.

So evidence that the images even existed, and existed in a religion thought to be staunchly iconoclastic, and existed in their worship space... well - that's a big deal.

It doesn't impact us that much, per say, since were iconodules. But it gets harder for an iconoclast to claim that we invented icons in late antiquity as part of some broad "paganization" of Christianity, or to claim that icons were a late invention at all. If anything, Christianity held back in the early centuries, preferring to imitate classical subject matters and art and merely reinterpreting their meaning by placing them in a Christian worship space (so that the "good shepherd," a classic of Roman art, becomes an icon of Christ), or using mere decorative images (vines or designs) in their worship spaces.

 

[Dorothea]

It is called the "Wall with Torah Niche" from a house synagogue in Dura-Europos, Syria and dated to 244-245AD.

Thanks, Henry.

Yes - to clarify, though, this article is about a new find in Israel/Palestine. It confirms what Dura-Europos has shown us as a continuing, and non-isolated, tradition within the Judaism of the late antiquity within the Roman Empire.

 

[Colleen1]

For a lot of scholarship and popular thought (which, in the English speaking world, is deeply influenced by Protestant iconoclasm), though, the very idea of religious imagery within the worship space of a monotheistic religion is an "invention" Christianity and a fairly late one.

So evidence that the images even existed, and existed in a religion thought to be staunchly iconoclastic, and existed in their worship space... well - that's a big deal.

It doesn't impact us that much, per say, since were iconodules. But it gets harder for an iconoclast to claim that we invented icons in late antiquity as part of some broad "paganization" of Christianity, or to claim that icons were a late invention at all. If anything, Christianity held back in the early centuries, preferring to imitate classical subject matters and art and merely reinterpreting their meaning by placing them in a Christian worship space (so that the "good shepherd," a classic of Roman art, becomes an icon of Christ), or using mere decorative images (vines or designs) in their worship spaces.

Thanks for your post and responding to the question. This is an issue I spend a fair deal of time thinking about. It's helpful to discuss openly.

 

[Touma]

From the late 4th / early 5th century.

Mosaic in Israel shows biblical Samson - CNN.com

There are even earlier ones with icon-like images, but this just adds fuel to the fire that the Christians did not borrow their iconography wholesale from Rome in some kind of sharp break with an iconoclastic Judaism. Iconoclasm, as a calling card of non-Christian monotheism, originates with ISLAM - not Judaism. Jews were perfectly fine using images in worship so long as they did not (one presumes) worship the images.

Really interesting.

Don't read the comments underneath the article; as this is on CNN, ANY article (of ANY type) becomes nothing but an occasion for idiots to bash religion with rather poor argumentation and spelling.

I am mixed on Icons (one of the reasons I am holding back from going full force into Orthodoxy). On one hand, I wouldn't mind having them for inspirational art. On the other, I don't think I am quite comfortable with having them included in my worship. My personal struggles aside, I wonder if an iconoclast could make the case simply that both Jews and Christians were strongly influenced by the pagan society around them (not necessarily good), and that is where they get the use of Icons?


*PS* No, I am not saying that Icons are pagan or bad. I respect people who have and use them. I am simply trying to portray an argument that a strongly Reformed Christian might use.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I am mixed on Icons (one of the reasons I am holding back from going full force into Orthodoxy). On one hand, I wouldn't mind having them for inspirational art. On the other, I don't think I am quite comfortable with having them included in my worship. My personal struggles aside, I wonder if an iconoclast could make the case simply that both Jews and Christians were strongly influenced by the pagan society around them (not necessarily good), and that is where they get the use of Icons?


*PS* No, I am not saying that Icons are pagan or bad. I respect people who have and use them. I am simply trying to portray an argument that a strongly Reformed Christian might use.

the problem with that argument is that iconography is in the tabernacle and Temple in the OT, commanded to be used by God.

 

[Touma]

the problem with that argument is that iconography is in the tabernacle and Temple in the OT, commanded to be used by God.

Oh is it? I didn't know that. Could you show me where (if you remember where it is located)?

 

[Dorothea]

Oh is it? I didn't know that. Could you show me where (if you remember where it is located)?

You can read all about the background, history and all of icons here. I thought this was a very good and thorough link on this subject. Maybe it will help you.

Orthodox Icons - FAQ

 

[Touma]

You can read all about the background, history and all of icons here. I thought this was a very good and thorough link on this subject. Maybe it will help you.

Orthodox Icons - FAQ

Thank you!

 

[ArmyMatt]

Oh is it? I didn't know that. Could you show me where (if you remember where it is located)?

it's in Leviticus I know, and whatever books describe the Temple. cherubim, animals, and plants adorn the curtain, walls, ark, and tables all over when God describes how he wants His Temple and tabernacle.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Notice the hair coloring of Samson: Light brown, like that of Christ.
Isn't Samson venerated as a Saint in Orthodoxy?

What does light brown hair symbolize?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Thanks for posting this article.

Great find.

Notice the hair coloring of Samson: Light brown, like that of Christ.
Isn't Samson venerated as a Saint in Orthodoxy?

I dunno what the hair color means, but yes. he is a saint, as one of the righteous Judges of Israel.

 

[Nephi]

Fascinating article - thanks!