Switchfoot

[Switchfoot'sBiggestFan]

I don't exchange emails with strangers, but of you want to continue to chat in the forum I'm game....

okay
hey lol do you have aim?

 

[bleechers]

Iron sharpeneth iron.

These discussions over the past few weeks have driven me back to the
pages of my Bible... THANKS! I have had to search out what the Bible
truly expects of me; to find out what is "doing God's work God's way";
and just how far I can go before I infringe on someone's liberty in
Christ... All good topics! All good studies!

I think that we can protect the name of Christ and the
term "Christian" without necessarily threatening a brother's liberty.
In fact, I think we are all commanded to do this as best we can.

With that in mind, I actually took the time to look through Switchfoot's web
site. For whatever reason, the author of the
site has chosen to exclude Christ and the gospel. In the end, that
is all that matters is it not? The gospel is "the power of God unto
salvation" and Jesus is the only answer to every need, is He not?

Fearing that Jesus or the gospel will "turn people off" is not a
valid argument. Of course He will. That's OK so long as WE don't turn
people off. If they turn away because of Him, then we should rejoice!
Peter and John rejoiced. Paul rejoiced. Jesus promised reward for
bearing His reproach.

I noticed at their site that Switchfoot is not scared to make a big
deal about fighting hunger in Africa or for "AIDS Awareness," but shy
away from mentioning the lover of our souls.

To their credit, they do say this:

"Our songs are more about the politics of the heart than they are
about foreign politics. I don't think we can solve the outside
problems until we solve the ones within..."

That's good, but it'd nice if they'd give the answer to "the ones
[problems] within." That answer (the only answer) is, of course, new life in Christ.

Their album (musically very good by the way), has gone platinum. I
think that they now have a platform and a fanbase to be more open
about "solv[ing] the ones within."

Hey, doc, if you've got the cure, don't hide the medicine! If people
hate the doctor because he tells them the truth, they'll never get
healed... but that's not the doctor's fault nor his responsibility.

The doctor's responsibility is to tell his patients the problem and give them the cure... regardless of what they'll think of him... even if the news will upset them... even if it costs him a client. He has honored his calling, we should honor ours.

Giving his patients a "positive message" hoping they'll figure it out before it's too late just won't work.

 

[brettnolan]

Not that there's any point...

Switchfoot interview...Washington Square News...10/10/03
Do you keep your lyrics intentionally vague to make them accessible to a secular audience?

No. The most important things about my life are in those songs. If they were on the surface, they'd come across as trite, but as the meat of the song, where you have to dig into it, they can come to life. It's not an intentional move to make the songs appeal to anyone. It's more the way I feel good songs come about.

This is apparently your quickest selling record. Do you feel like you're taking the message to the masses?

We've never been about the numbers. Originally we were a three-piece from North County, San Diego, that wanted to put out records on our own. Obviously things have gotten a lot bigger than that. We're so excited that the world will be hearing these songs, because we really believe in them. This is bigger than we ever thought we'd be. The definition of success might be different for us than the rest of the world, and the numbers don't necessarily mean that we're successful.

There was a review of The Beautiful Letdown in the National Review Online, wherein author Mark Joseph used extended metaphor to compare Switchfoot to Jesus Christ: "Occasionally Foreman and Switchfoot hint at answers, but mostly they stick with questions, adapting the technique first perfected by One who both inspired and annoyed the masses by seeming to first offer up at least as many questions as He did answers." What do you think of that?

I think it's a compliment. But I would never say that that's the way we do things. The Socratic dialogue is nothing new. For me, the most important answers that I've found in my life have been the answers to things that I've been crying about, dreaming about, hoping for, and answers like that don't come lightly. I guess that's what we've always been about as a band - talking about what we're learning, and trying to figure out the world around us. I'll be the first to admit that I have more questions than I have answers.

Different interview...
You know, I guess part of that question is that here [Christian festival] everyone makes a big deal out of 'Are you a Christian band?' or 'Are you guys who are Christian in a band?' And that cant' really be the issue at another place?
Jon: Yeah. You're not only what you believe.
Jerome: You're judged by your music.
Jon: Well, I think sometimes -like-the people who began the Spanish Inquisition had GREAT intentions. And I'm not comparing anything in today's day and age to that, but that's a side note just saying that good intentions don't exactly mean ANYTHING at the end of the day. I feel like the biggest problem facing the church right now is our exclusivity. That we are completely boxing ourselves in. So it is so freeing to be able to express your songs to a completely new audience who has absolutely no preconceived notions of who you are. That you're simply playing a song and that song has to speak louder than the noise around you.

So burn all your Switchfoot CDs...

 

[bleechers]

So burn all your Switchfoot CDs...

You have a knack for the extreme. It's not very condusive to a discussion. I encourage everyone to read my previous post and see where I suggested anything of this sort.

Where is the biblical flaw in any of my points? If you found one, do me the honor of actually referring to something I wrote and not to a strawman.

Just one note: we don't have Jesus' ministry, we have Paul's.

 

[brettnolan]

A little off topic, but you're signature made me curious...is this a joke or real?

http://michaelscotto.com/articles/plymouth.html

You have a knack for the extreme.

Talk about a knack for the extreme...?

 

[bleechers]

A little off topic, but you're signature made me curious...is this a joke or real?

What do you think Switchfoot would say? (just to stay on topic... )

Oh, it's very real... in a way. I always say that if you put the doctrines of another (more well-known) church in a different package, the error would be obvious... but somehow people can't see beyond palaces, gold, robes and rituals to recognize when their faith is being discreditted.

I have been accused of being a "basher" countless times for merely pointing out what a certain church actually teaches... so I thought I'd create my own church with basically the same doctrines and see what people thought of it.

This way, I'm not "bashing" I'm merely promoting... and if anyone questions the PUC, I get to accuse them of bashing!

I play CCM. I listen to CCM. I think Switchfoot is a quality band

I'm impressed that you found the link! As you saw, the PUC has a whole lot of interesting doctrines.

-Michael I, Supreme Procurator of the PUC, Successor to Paul, Sole interpreter of Scripture, CCM Fan.

 

[clinzey]

I have a question regarding the latest discussion - Why does a band of Christian guys (who are all very nice, by the way) have to play music with the intent of evangelism? Why can't they simply create quality music?

 

[bleechers]

I have a question regarding the latest discussion - Why does a band of Christian guys (who are all very nice, by the way) have to play music with the intent of evangelism? Why can't they simply create quality music?

They don't "have" to do anything.

The point I have always made is why (given the audience and a microphone and the freedom to write what you want) would someone refuse to use the opportunity to do as the scripture directs and "preach the Word?"

Please understand, there is no law here. They have the liberty to say nothing... then again, they also have the liberty to get no reward and to miss out on tremendous blessings in the life to come.

The gospel and souls are eternal. "Quality music" shall pass away.

I would just exhort them to use their talents for the gospel rather than bury them in the earth to produce nothing of eternal value. I would also exhort Chrstians to support bands who openly preach the gospel (the power of God unto salvation).

But you are correct. They can do whatever they want... just like the rest of us... but we all must appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ. They must also face all those souls who looked to them to whom they failed to warn of the wrath to come. Paul said "I am free of the blood of all men" because he failed not to share the gospel with all whom he came in contact... I'm just exhorting us to "follow [Paul] as [he] followed Christ."

Jesus commanded us to "go into all the world and preach the gospel." I don't recall "go into all the world and create quality music." The best thing would be to do both!

They speak a word for "AIDS Awareness" how 'bout a word for Christ?

But they don't "have" to a thing if they don't wanna... then again, if a band calls itself "Christian" and then refuses to do as the Bible commands, well, that's another kettle of fish... we ALL need to protect what goes out in the name of "Christianity."

 

[Switchfoot'sBiggestFan]

what was this whole arugment about?
switchfoot is a quality band. it is the fact that they chose to be christian singers that matters, they could have choosen to be a pop boy band..

 

[bleechers]

what was this whole arugment about?

I guess its less of an argument and more of a clarification clinic.

It's not necessarily black and white. The two main questions are:

1. Why would Christians choose to say nothing about Christ?
2. If they call themselves Christians, does the church have the right to call them to account? And to what degree?

That's where we've been trying to sort of find our way through.

 

[clinzey]

They don't "have" to do anything.

The point I have always made is why (given the audience and a microphone and the freedom to write what you want) would someone refuse to use the opportunity to do as the scripture directs and "preach the Word?"

The Bible doesn't say from which platform we should preach the word. In all of life there are many opportunities to preach, why does it have to be from their band? What if, by keeping the band more neutral (evangelitically speaking), they are able to open even more doors and opportunities to share Jesus? You say there is no law, but your attitude is one of condemnation due to the fact that they are less vocal about their faith from the stage than you think they should be,

But they don't "have" to a thing if they don't wanna... then again, if a band calls itself "Christian" and then refuses to do as the Bible commands....

Again, the Bible doesn't command us to preach Jesus from a rock stage. Jesus commanded his disciples to go, and as they go make other disciples.

 

[bleechers]

The Bible doesn't say from which platform we should preach the word

Yes, but we are command to do it. Given that, why not use the biggest platform you have? And, again, what on earth could possibly be the reason not to?

What if, by keeping the band more neutral (evangelitically speaking), they are able to open even more doors and opportunities to share Jesus?

Sounds good, but this is just not biblical. We are repeatedly called to preach the word "when it is convenient and when it is not convenient." Sure, we all fail to do this all the time, but we should never say that "failing to do this" is our calling from God.

This approach sounds like human wisdom or cleverness. Paul says that we need simply to preach the gospel. What's so horrible about that? What's so difficult about that? Is it the word "preach" that bothers you?

Not particularly Switchfoot, but too many CCM bands openly state that they refuse to (as they put it) "shove God down people's throats" or "get in people's faces"... whatever that means. If we simply speak the truth in love (as commanded by God) then the result is left to Him. Why purposely exclude that call?

Stage. Microphone. CDs. To what "doors" do you prefer.

Again, the Bible doesn't command us to preach Jesus from a rock stage. Jesus commanded his disciples to go, and as they go make other disciples.

We are commanded to both make disciple and preach the gospel. It is a command and is repeated by Paul continually. Why would anyone choose to purposely not do this?

Is there a better platform than their "rock stage"? Is it excluded from the call?

You say there is no law, but your attitude is one of condemnation due to the fact that they are less vocal about their faith from the stage than you think they should be,

Exhortation? sure. Rebuke? possibly. Condemnation? no.

Read my last post again and smile as you read.

 

[janna_long_fan]

The point I have always made is why (given the audience and a microphone and the freedom to write what you want) would someone refuse to use the opportunity to do as the scripture directs and "preach the Word?"

Why can't a Christian (or Christians in this case) use their life as a means of evangelism? I mean, I go to school everyday and I don't always tell people about my walk with Christ. I let my actions do that. When I refuse to smoke a cigarette, resist from using curse words and other related things, that prompts questions regarding why I act the way I do. This leads to my faith.

Switchfoot can do the same thing. They can take the Word to the "mainstream market" through their lives and actions. There are plenty of other Christians celebrities in music, television and movies that aren't affiliated with Christian labels, companies and stations, but they live their life for Christ.

St. Francis said it best:

Preach the gospel at all times. Use words if necessary.

 

[Sign Of The Fish Burger]

I have their Beautiful Letdown cd adn its VERY good
I havent heared much anything else byt hem... but that cd is very good!!!

 

[bleechers]

Why can't a Christian (or Christians in this case) use their life as a means of evangelism?

Because God has stated "faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" and "God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save some." Is God a better source than Francis of Asissi? or Augustine? or whomever?

Why are you so bent out of shape about this? All I am saying is that at the end of the day, obedience is what counts. There is a "better way" and that way is the Bible way. Why does that trouble you so? Why are you fighting so vehemently about exhorting Christians to simply preach the gospel?

Our lifestyle backs our doctrine and preaching... not the other way around.

I go to school everyday and I don't always tell people about my walk with Christ. I let my actions do that. When I refuse to smoke a cigarette, resist from using curse words and other related things, that prompts questions regarding why I act the way I do. This leads to my faith.

Fine, but if they called a school assembly and told you that you could address the crowd and say anything you wanted... wouldn't it be best to preach the gospel? Why is so horrible to exhort Christian artists to do the same?

They can take the Word to the "mainstream market" through their lives and actions.

Fine, but that is not what we are called nor commanded to do... and it is not the "best" thing to do given their position. "Faith comes by hearing" the Word of God. When we are given a chance, we need to preach the Word. Never (never) are we commanded to refuse to say anything and just "act like a Christian and hope they'll figure out the way of salvation."

Can you, at least, acknowledge that telling people the gospel (as commaned by God) is better than not telling them... hoping they'll somehow figure it out?

Why is this so difficult?

St. Francis said it best:

Well, that unbiblical bit of nonsense is actually attributed to Augustine. Sounds nice... fits on a bumper-sticker... it's just not biblical.

Why are you so quick to want to believe and follow the words of indulgence-seeking Francis and so slow to want to acknowledge the absolutely clear words and instructions of God?



Actually, it is even highly doubtful that Augustine said it either. It was most likely statedby a 17th Century Lutheran theologian (for whatever its worth).

 

[janna_long_fan]

Why are you so bent out of shape about this?

Apparently I'm not as bent out of shape as you are. You're the one who keeps coming back here to correct people about what we feel on this issue.

 

[jesus died for ME!]

they are really good i had never heard them till today but it`s so funny all of my non christian friends have there CD and i don`t

 

[bleechers]

Apparently I'm not as bent out of shape as you are. You're the one who keeps coming back here to correct people about what we feel on this issue.

Not quite...

Two things:

1. I have responded to the argument that it is somehow better to "not say anything" than to preach the gospel as commanded in the Bible. This faulty argument continues to be made and defended... which leads to #2...

2. I have asked repeatedly for a biblical defense of the argument and have posted, repeatedly , the scriptures that contradict the argument. All I get is human reasoning or quotes from outside the Bible.

Please go back and read my posts. They are simple, occasionaly humorous, and to the point. As for "correcting people," if asking them to make their argument from the Bible and then pointing to the scripture is not the best way of "correcting" someone, then I don't know what is.

"Strongly rebuke, that they may be sound in the faith," "All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for correction..." If I am wrong biblically, PLEASE correct me. Just don't try to correct me by quoting other sources. Quotes are OK if they help clarify a biblical truth, but in and of themselves they are not inspired.

Again, I challenge you to read back through my posts and specifically note where I was either out-of-line or biblically wrong in my assertions.

Assertion 1: It is best to look for every given opportunity to preach the Word and spread the gospel, no matter the cost. Obedience comes before anything else. "God has chosen" (His words) the "foolishness of preaching" to save some and "faith comes by hearing... the Word." Therefore, it is BEST to seek EVERY opportunity to do so. There is no such thing as a "say nothing; don't mention Christ; refuse to share the gospel; be positive" ministry.

Assertion 2: God would rather have me not smoke, be positive, be nice, be vague, be subtle, never mention Him or the gospel than actually use the free mic time and liner notes to reach people with the gospel and with the Word.

Pick one.

If you pick #2, defend it from the Bible.

That's all I've ever asked.

 

[theRock]

Erm sorry to break in like this, but this is an appreciation of Switchfoot's music not a political debate on the fundementals of Christianity!!!!

 

[bleechers]

Erm sorry to break in like this, but this is an appreciation of Switchfoot's music

Let me quote from the first post in this thread:

Switchfoot is a Christian band...

Once somebody takes the label "Christian" or once somebody defines something as "Christian" then they should be able to defend that label and/or definition.

If not, this entire board is a waste of time and "Christianity" means whatever anybody wants it to mean. The Bible is scrapped. The command to "EARNESTLY contend for the faith" forgotten. Certainly, on a Christian board, the topics discussed are profitable.

not a political debate on the fundementals of Christianity!!!!

Debate? The question here is very simple. I melted it down in my last post. If you're going to contend that Switchfoot (or any other band) is "Christian" then be prepared to (a) biblically defend the use of the word "Christian" and (b) biblically defend their choice to "say nothing for Christ" as their calling from God.

All I've ever asked (for the 327th time) is for anybody to make a biblical defense of the "we refuse to mention Christ or the gospel" as a "Christian ministry"? Is asking that such a bad thing?

For the sake of hilighting the point, consider the following extreme statements:

1 - Black Sabbath is a Christian band! If anybody questions that label... how dare you!!!! You have no right to judge them, man!

2 - My Christian band's calling from God is to use the Book of Mormon for our lyrics.

3 - Our whole band smokes crack to show that we're not afraid of death. Maybe the teens will wonder "hey, why do these guys not fear an overdose?" and then maybe they'll realize its because we love Jesus and He's conquered death.

etc.

Now, don't you think I ought to have to defend the above statements? Or do we all just accept them at face value, ignoring the scriptures?