Swedenborg

[Noxot]

What think ye of Emmanuel Swedenborg, the 18th century mystic who claimed to have seen the afterlife? Was he wrong? Right? Somewhere in between?

I find him and his teaching intriguing, but there is a lot of crazy (to me) in there as well.

Basics:

• God is infinitely loving and at the center of every life.
• Truth is love in action. Actions performed out of love are genuine expressions in a physical form of what love means.
• There is one God whose essence is Divine Love and Wisdom. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all aspects of God just as body, mind, and soul are all aspects of one person.
• The Bible is the inspired Word of God that provides inspiration and help to lead better and more fulfilling lives. The literal sense of Scripture tells the story of the people of God, and contains a deeper meaning that illumines the journey of the human soul.
• People are essentially spirits clothed with material bodies. At death, the material body is laid aside and the person continues to live on in the world of spirit choosing a heavenly life or a hellish one, based on the quality of life choices made here.
• God gives everyone the freedom to choose their beliefs and live their lives accordingly. Salvation is available for people of all religions.
• The Second Coming has taken place—and in fact still is taking place. It is not an actual physical appearance of the Lord, but rather his return in spirit and truth that is being effected as a present reality.
• God is infinitely loving and at the center of every life.

http://www.swedenborg.org/Beliefs.aspx

Famous Swedenborgians:
Andrew Carnegie
Helen Keller
John Chapman (Johnny Appleseed)

William Blake and Emerson weren't "followers" but were intrigued by ES's teachings.

I'm just wondering what others here may think.

I like him. I like anyone who loves God, especially those really near to him. I have always sought out those saints and mystics who would properly nourish and draw me nearer to God, the angels being the ones who guide me to them. heaven is more than he says it is but that is to be expected. there are a lot of saints that did some amazing things. another less well known is the Italian catholic saint who wrote "Poem of the Man-God", her name was Maria Valtorta and she had daily visions of Jesus and wrote a detailed gospel consisting of several book volumes.

 

[Noxot]

Interesting. I will have to read more on them. Thanks for sharing!

I have not yet watched this so I dunno if it is any good but i'm gonna watch it today and thought you might be interested in it.

 

[Noxot]

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through Me."

I didn't make this up or parroting tradition. The apostle John wrote this as quoting Jesus Himself. Believe it or not.
TD

yeah well i'm part of the body of Christ so you might want to use some reasoning as to what that could mean.

 

[Fizzywig]

The trouble with cults is that 90% of what they say is true. If all they said was wrong, then no one would listen to them.

When does a cult become an orthodoxy? Is it by democratic vote? Truth by numbers?

 

[Fizzywig]

Yet Jesus said people are saved by doing good. Special interpretation will be used to dispute this.

I would say that true works proceed naturally from true faith. And true faith is itself a gift. At least, so says the Pure Land. Christians are of course quite free to continue the on-going disputes on this point - based upon a book that is "quite clear" according to recent posts on this thread.

Proof of the pudding.......

 

[Fizzywig]

Deleted - double post

 

[-57]

Yet Jesus said people are saved by doing good. Special interpretation will be used to dispute this.

Where?

 

[Fizzywig]

So, let us in on the secret...what are those other ways?

No secret. The words are expressive of the Eternal Word. The Bible, for those Christians who see this, is not "The Word made Text".

All this is quite clear in the Pure Land. Maybe not so clear to the "natural man".

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Swedenborg was REALLY important to the Victorian era, and also informed William Blake's visionary poetry a few decades before that.

The Spiritualist movement (i.e. people who held seances to communicate with the "other side", i.e. their deceased loved ones) owed a great deal to Swedenborg, even if they were far less egalitarian than his writings might have suggested. Still, the role of medium was an interesting subversion of Victorian gender roles, placing women in a position of power *exactly because* of the supposed qualities that made them subservient in virtually any other context.

 

[Chesterton]

Paul was a man who received all his inspiration from visions and personal visitations from God. Paul didn't think very highly of Jesus' own disciples. Maybe that should be a deal breaker. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I was going to ask you what you meant, then I read your sig. Never mind.

 

[Noxot]

He was a fascinating man, spoke six or more languages, proficient in several fields and sciences, an inventor, a statesman. Swedenborgism is presented sometimes as an alternative for people who have suffered under oppressive fundamentalist Christianity, but I find the teaching to be oppressive itself. Swedenborg had visions of a gruesome afterlife for those who don't go to heaven; he just believed that those in hell are exactly where they want to be.

God can't force you to be sane, if he did there would be no evils in the world. God does not lord it over others because if he did he would be satan. the greatest possible love requires freedom but freedom means that evil can be.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

It's a spot-on description of Paul and his relationship with the "Jerusalem Pillars". Read his epistles: there is little love lost between them, even after the Jerusalem Council. Paul goes to great lengths to point out that knowing Jesus "in the flesh" (like they do) is of no consequence, and that the only thing that TRULY matters is knowing him in the spirit, as the risen Saviour God (the way he does).

 

[Albion]

He was a fascinating man, spoke six or more languages, proficient in several fields and sciences, an inventor, a statesman. Swedenborgism is presented sometimes as an alternative for people who have suffered under oppressive fundamentalist Christianity, but I find the teaching to be oppressive itself. Swedenborg had visions of a gruesome afterlife for those who don't go to heaven; he just believed that those in hell are exactly where they want to be.

I don't disagree entirely, but if hell is gruesome, this is hardly a POV that Swedenborg introduced. In fact, his view of it (that you correctly described but only in passing) is much less horrific, I think it's safe to say, when compared to what the Catholic and Protestant churches of his day were preaching.

To Swedenborg, those in hell go there because they want to be there and would not want to be in heaven. They are not "sentenced" to hell, and the nature of hell (to Swedenborg) is not one of fiery torture, etc. The reason it's not pleasant is because of the character of the inhabitants themselves. They are cheaters, haters, and so on and inflict themselves on other souls like themselves.

 

[Chesterton]

I don't disagree entirely, but if hell is gruesome, this is hardly a POV that Swedenborg introduced. In fact, his view of it (that you correctly described but only in passing) is much less horrific, I think it's safe to say, when compared to what the Catholic and Protestant churches of his day were preaching.

To Swedenborg, those in hell go there because they want to be there and would not want to be in heaven. They are not "sentenced" to hell, and the nature of hell (to Swedenborg) is not one of fiery torture, etc. The reason it's not pleasant is because of the character of the inhabitants themselves. They are cheaters, haters, and so on and inflict themselves on other souls like themselves.

That's an Eastern Orthodox view from early on, and one expounded by Lewis, as exemplified in The Great Divorce.

 

[Albion]

That's an Eastern Orthodox view from early on, and one expounded by Lewis, as exemplified in The Great Divorce.

You're right to say that Swedenborg's view of things does remind us of EO theology, both on this and on other matters. At least, that's my thinking.

 

[-57]

No secret. The words are expressive of the Eternal Word. The Bible, for those Christians who see this, is not "The Word made Text".

All this is quite clear in the Pure Land. Maybe not so clear to the "natural man".

Pure land requires being washed by the blood of Christ.

 

[Noxot]

the only people who need to be washed are sinners and sinners don't get to judge who else is a sinner and who is not and they have no authority to say what God assigns this or that being to do in heaven. it is like a child trying to tell their grown up siblings what they can and can not do. we shall only be entertained and entertain so far.

 

[EmSw]

Where?

John 5
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

 

[EmSw]

I was going to ask you what you meant, then I read your sig. Never mind.

What in the sig bothers you? This was written to show the reasoning of some protestants.

 

[nightflight]

You're right to say that Swedenborg's view of things does remind us of EO theology, both on this and on other matters. At least, that's my thinking.

I know a Swedenborg pastor who said the same thing.