Swedenborg

[Chesterton]

Well, there's no set and unalterable pattern, of course, but the nature of Swedenborg's revelations was way above what the ordinary prophet, whether genuine or not, reveals. That makes him either more important or, if we look at it the other way, much less credible.

But the stuff about Paul has to be a deal breaker for any Christian. Paul's too important to Christianity. I can't prove that a man didn't have a vision, but that kind of vision about Paul reduces his credibility to zero, or else I have to throw out Christianity.

There's no comparison. Really.

Why do you say that?

 

[Albion]

But the stuff about Paul has to be a deal breaker for any Christian. Paul's too important to Christianity.

To be sure, I don't buy it. I was, however, making a point that I think is worth mentioning. It's not the same as Catholics arguing that the Pope can be wrong on many things but is nevertheless infallible on ex cathedra pronouncements--but it's similar.

Why do you say that?

Because Swedenborg really was self-effacing. He didn't even try to convince people of his ideas and never looked to find adherents for his views. He didn't start a new church. None of that. Mohammad and Joseph Smith, Jr. OTOH seem to me to be anything BUT humble.

 

[Chesterton]

Because Swedenborg really was self-effacing. He didn't even try to convince people of his ideas and never looked to find adherents for his views. He didn't start a new church. None of that. Mohammad and Joseph Smith, Jr. OTOH seem to me to be anything BUT humble.

Some say Luther didn't want to start a new church either, but 500 years and 5,000 miles later, there's a Lutheran Church right down the street from me. Others say Luther did want to start a new church.

 

[777Sloan]

.

 

[tdidymas]

As I see it, it is not a "philosophy" that there are many ways to God. It is the living experience of many who have reached the heart of their own Faith and from that heart have been able to recognise their brothers and sisters of another.

There are many Christians who do recognise, and have always recognised, that the "one way" text gives voice to the Eternal Word that St John's Gospel proclaims as the light which lights all who come into the world, and through Whom all things are made.

As such it would be false to assert that Jesus claimed that HE was the only way. Obviously this way of understanding the text brings up such questions found time and time again on Christian Forums, such as "what about those who have never heard of Jesus?" etc etc, which quite frankly never get a satisfactory answer.

The Christian mystic Meister Eckhart said....."They do Him wrong who take God in just one particular way - they have the way rather than God."

Indeed.

( This not to mention that the authorative texts of other major Faiths have their very own "one way only" verses )

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through Me."

I didn't make this up or parroting tradition. The apostle John wrote this as quoting Jesus Himself. Believe it or not.
TD

 

[tdidymas]

It's complicated, but Swedenborg's POV is not well described by what you wrote here. He was profoundly Christian, not as it may seem, "all religions are true, etc.")

My response was based on the quote in the OP. I'm just telling you what the Bible teaches that is contrary to those statements of belief. I'm not addressing the statements that aren't contrary to Biblical teaching; but there are 2 other statements that are questionable. I simply addressed the one statement that is clearly against the teaching of scripture.

The trouble with cults is that 90% of what they say is true. If all they said was wrong, then no one would listen to them. But when 90% of what they say is actually true, or mostly acceptable, then the 10% of what they say that can send people to a destructive end is slipped in unawares. Rat poison consists of 97% cornmeal and 3% arsenic. Guess which part kills the rat? From what I've seen so far, the teachings of Swedenborg is spiritual rat poison.
TD

 

[Albion]

My response was based on the quote in the OP. I'm just telling you what the Bible teaches that is contrary to those statements of belief. I'm not addressing the statements that aren't contrary to Biblical teaching; but there are 2 other statements that are questionable. I simply addressed the one statement that is clearly against the teaching of scripture.

I know. My comment was just for clarification sake.

The trouble with cults is that 90% of what they say is true. If all they said was wrong, then no one would listen to them. But when 90% of what they say is actually true, or mostly acceptable, then the 10% of what they say that can send people to a destructive end is slipped in unawares.

I don't know that I'd agree with it being that high a percentage for cults in general, but if we're counting percentages, Swedenborgianism is really quite unlike almost any other church body, cult or not.

 

[gord44]

If those were the only 3 verses in the bible...you might have a point. But the bible contains much more about Jesus, who He was what He did and why He did it....

Of course. But the gospels always presented a way different Christianity then the rest of the Bible, in my opinion at least.

 

[nightflight]

He was a fascinating man, spoke six or more languages, proficient in several fields and sciences, an inventor, a statesman. Swedenborgism is presented sometimes as an alternative for people who have suffered under oppressive fundamentalist Christianity, but I find the teaching to be oppressive itself. Swedenborg had visions of a gruesome afterlife for those who don't go to heaven; he just believed that those in hell are exactly where they want to be.

 

[Job8]

I find him and his teaching intriguing, but there is a lot of crazy (to me) in there as well.

Heretical would be more appropriate.

God is infinitely loving and at the center of every life.
According to Scripture, the Holy Spirit is only within those who have been born again.

Truth is love in action. Actions performed out of love are genuine expressions in a physical form of what love means.
Nothing objectionable here.

There is one God whose essence is Divine Love and Wisdom.
Nothing objectionable here.

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all aspects of God just as body, mind, and soul are all aspects of one person.
Sounds like Modalism, but this is not according to Scripture.

The Bible is the inspired Word of God that provides inspiration and help to lead better and more fulfilling lives.
Nothing objectionable here.

The literal sense of Scripture tells the story of the people of God, and contains a deeper meaning that illumines the journey of the human soul.
Introduces Eastern mysticism. "The journey of the soul" is not a biblical concept.

People are essentially spirits clothed with material bodies.
True

At death, the material body is laid aside and the person continues to live on in the world of spirit choosing a heavenly life or a hellish one, based on the quality of life choices made here.
False. This is the concept of Karma from Eastern religions.

God gives everyone the freedom to choose their beliefs and live their lives accordingly.
False. Obedience to the Gospel is an imperative. Repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ is an imperative.

Salvation is available for people of all religions.
False. Salvation is in Christ alone, through His blood and righteousness.

The Second Coming has taken place—and in fact still is taking place. It is not an actual physical appearance of the Lord, but rather his return in spirit and truth that is being effected as a present reality.
False. The Second Coming is an actual physical coming of Christ to earth.

On balance there is more false doctrine in Swedenborgianism than Bible truth. Another cult.

 

[Job8]

Of course. But the gospels always presented a way different Christianity then the rest of the Bible, in my opinion at least.

The Gospels bring Old Testament truth to fruition in Christ. But salvation has always been by grace through faith in God and the Lamb of God.

 

[Arthra]

There's an interesting quote from Swedenborg about "hell":

“People who have intended and loved what is evil in the world intend and love what is evil in the other life, and then they no longer allow themselves to be led away from it. This is why people who are absorbed in evil are connected to hell and actually are there in spirit; and after death they crave above all to be where their evil is. So after death, it is we, not the Lord, who cast ourselves into hell.”
― Emanuel Swedenborg, Afterlife: A Guided Tour to Heaven and Its Wonders

 

[Fizzywig]

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through Me."

I didn't make this up or parroting tradition. The apostle John wrote this as quoting Jesus Himself. Believe it or not.
TD

I repeat, there are other ways to understand those words, other ways found in the Christian Tradition itself. Ways that help explain - without interpretive gymnastics and adding bits not found in the Bible - just how a human being can know the fullness of God's Grace without without ever having heard of Jesus.

 

[tdidymas]

I repeat, there are other ways to understand those words, other ways found in the Christian Tradition itself. Ways that help explain - without interpretive gymnastics and adding bits not found in the Bible - just how a human being can know the fullness of God's Grace without without ever having heard of Jesus.

The words of scripture are simple and clear. To make something else of it is interpretive gymnastics.
TD

 

[Fizzywig]

The words of scripture are simple and clear. To make something else of it is interpretive gymnastics.
TD

Hi again. You are welcome to claim such is so. The split of Protestants - who proclaim Sola Scriptura - into over 1000 diverse denominations, conclusively shows otherwise.

The Word as a " simple and clear" text is a phantom of the mind, often grasped at by those who, for whatever reason, seek more than Grace.

 

[-57]

Of course. But the gospels always presented a way different Christianity then the rest of the Bible, in my opinion at least.

Such as?

 

[-57]

I repeat, there are other ways to understand those words, other ways found in the Christian Tradition itself. Ways that help explain - without interpretive gymnastics and adding bits not found in the Bible - just how a human being can know the fullness of God's Grace without without ever having heard of Jesus.

So, let us in on the secret...what are those other ways?

 

[EmSw]

My response was based on the quote in the OP. I'm just telling you what the Bible teaches that is contrary to those statements of belief. I'm not addressing the statements that aren't contrary to Biblical teaching; but there are 2 other statements that are questionable. I simply addressed the one statement that is clearly against the teaching of scripture.

The trouble with cults is that 90% of what they say is true. If all they said was wrong, then no one would listen to them. But when 90% of what they say is actually true, or mostly acceptable, then the 10% of what they say that can send people to a destructive end is slipped in unawares. Rat poison consists of 97% cornmeal and 3% arsenic. Guess which part kills the rat? From what I've seen so far, the teachings of Swedenborg is spiritual rat poison.
TD

So which Christian church today is telling us 100% truth? No two denominations can totally agree on everything. This means most, if not all, are only giving us 97% (or less) truth. Are we being poisoned by today's churches? Are churches today cults? Maybe it isn't arsenic you are poisoned with, but snake venom, lead, mercury, carbon monoxide, or some other toxic substance.

 

[EmSw]

But the stuff about Paul has to be a deal breaker for any Christian. Paul's too important to Christianity. I can't prove that a man didn't have a vision, but that kind of vision about Paul reduces his credibility to zero, or else I have to throw out Christianity.

Why do you say that?

Paul was a man who received all his inspiration from visions and personal visitations from God. Paul didn't think very highly of Jesus' own disciples. Maybe that should be a deal breaker. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[EmSw]

I don't disagree...people are saved by the gift of faith and grace. That's what the bible teaches. No special interpretation needed.

Yet Jesus said people are saved by doing good. Special interpretation will be used to dispute this.