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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Surely this cannot be allowed...
- Thread starter CatholicAtHeart
- Start date
E
Etheldreda
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Oh dear... nothing wrong in principle (it's liturgical, it's prayer, it's the word and sacrament, and the music is to glorify and for worship - and the worship band are pretty good)... but the little dancing bits from the vicar are a bit embarassing.
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What exactly are your objections?
I can assure you the Goth eucharist has gone through the canon liturgists; its big difference is the extra candles, focus on the needs of the suffering world and its music.
I can assure you the Goth eucharist has gone through the canon liturgists; its big difference is the extra candles, focus on the needs of the suffering world and its music.
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Timothy
Mad Anglican geek at large
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Umm... 'Disgusting' is a pretty strong word to describe that. I led worship this morning in an Anglican church where apart from the drums (need to find a drumkit that our drummer can use--his are rather non-portable) our regular worship isn't that dissimilar, apart from the fact we have a vicar with rather better taste in how he acts...
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Izdaari Eristikon
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What's the problem? I'm not seeing it. Other than the guitarist is playing an acoustic instead of a Les Paul, Strat, or Tele. 
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Not my style of worship- I prefer etheria an ambient music although I do love a good cathdral choirs plain chant.
This was their worship style. It seems to be drawing from Charismatic/Pentecostal spiritual sources and yes that will be very odd if its not your spiritual home.
HOWEVER and this is a very big however- this clip did not include the Eucharist itself, it was not the preperation of the table let alone the eucharist paryer itself. I suspect they are using the UK Common Worship Eucharist rather than the BCP given the group of people present.
To comply with Canon Law and be allowed to hold this as Eucharist I can assure you none would tinker with the actual Eucharist itself which is part of the service. We do have a college of liturgists and whilst they are adaptable as liturgy should be about helping people to gather together to worship God with honesty and integrity for them the Eucharist is a sacrement in the CofE and respected as such.
You can use whatever worship music you like for hymns and songs either side of the actual Eucharist including Christian Metal or Wesleys hymns or Kendricks Praise as long as it helps the congregation gathered to enter into the liminal space to meet and leave from God.
Are these the best muscians I have heard- nope but then I have also heard church organs that badly need tuning and choirs that make the birds on the roof take flight too. If I have to be in service susing such sorts of music I make use of ear plugs- my personal cringe is Kendrick's banal praise songs but I put up with them as I know many in the congregations find them helpful and I will not take form anyone something that helps them to have a constructive growing relationship with God.
Its not my personal music taste- it would be exceptionally rare for any service to offer that.
I cannot say it is anything more than an example of charismatic worship you can find in some Evangelical/Charismatic CofE churches.
You cannot say it is about people rather than God base don a short IMHO not my taste worship clip without trying to build a relationship with the congregation concerned. That would be as wise as saying anyone who treats this as Mass using bells, smells albs and chausables is placing the drama over the spiritual aspect too.
This was their worship style. It seems to be drawing from Charismatic/Pentecostal spiritual sources and yes that will be very odd if its not your spiritual home.
HOWEVER and this is a very big however- this clip did not include the Eucharist itself, it was not the preperation of the table let alone the eucharist paryer itself. I suspect they are using the UK Common Worship Eucharist rather than the BCP given the group of people present.
To comply with Canon Law and be allowed to hold this as Eucharist I can assure you none would tinker with the actual Eucharist itself which is part of the service. We do have a college of liturgists and whilst they are adaptable as liturgy should be about helping people to gather together to worship God with honesty and integrity for them the Eucharist is a sacrement in the CofE and respected as such.
You can use whatever worship music you like for hymns and songs either side of the actual Eucharist including Christian Metal or Wesleys hymns or Kendricks Praise as long as it helps the congregation gathered to enter into the liminal space to meet and leave from God.
Are these the best muscians I have heard- nope but then I have also heard church organs that badly need tuning and choirs that make the birds on the roof take flight too. If I have to be in service susing such sorts of music I make use of ear plugs- my personal cringe is Kendrick's banal praise songs but I put up with them as I know many in the congregations find them helpful and I will not take form anyone something that helps them to have a constructive growing relationship with God.
Its not my personal music taste- it would be exceptionally rare for any service to offer that.
I cannot say it is anything more than an example of charismatic worship you can find in some Evangelical/Charismatic CofE churches.
You cannot say it is about people rather than God base don a short IMHO not my taste worship clip without trying to build a relationship with the congregation concerned. That would be as wise as saying anyone who treats this as Mass using bells, smells albs and chausables is placing the drama over the spiritual aspect too.
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- Feb 8, 2004
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I don't have a problem with the principles that I presume fed the worship, but based on that short clip I find the execution flawed on a variety of levels.
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aussieoldcatholic
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Nothing Wrong with it. The Mass has always followed popular musical trends through History.
I wouldn't like this personally cause I'm a snob who likes Baroque/Renaissance/Gregorian music fine vestments, Latin and Elizabethan English...and anything else is just pedestrian.
that being said however if someone doesn't get anything out of it, then it is pointless...God has to touch people on their own level.
I'm pleased God is present at these Mass's....cause I wouldn't be for all the all the jewels in Christendom! lol
I wouldn't like this personally cause I'm a snob who likes Baroque/Renaissance/Gregorian music fine vestments, Latin and Elizabethan English...and anything else is just pedestrian.
that being said however if someone doesn't get anything out of it, then it is pointless...God has to touch people on their own level.
I'm pleased God is present at these Mass's....cause I wouldn't be for all the all the jewels in Christendom! lol
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AndrewRD
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So long as the actual Eucharistic portion of the service followed the prayer book, and the elements were properly consecrated and served by an ordained priest, the service is valid.
Now granted, this might be a perfectly validly service that is appallingly garish and perhaps a little too centered on the congregation rather than God for my tastes... but hey, a valid service nonetheless.
Now granted, this might be a perfectly validly service that is appallingly garish and perhaps a little too centered on the congregation rather than God for my tastes... but hey, a valid service nonetheless.
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Timothy
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Agreed. It's not to my taste, and there's a number of things I would personally change musically (I do NOT like distorted acoustic, if you're doing that sort of music, use an electric guitar for goodness sake! Even a cheap strat-clone would sound better) and a number of things I would change liturgically, but I still recognise that it's a matter of taste.
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MKJ
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I didn't say anything about levels of validity. But validity is not the only issue. What are we doing when we gather for public worship? The minimum we need to make it count? Or are we really offering God the best we can with our heart and soul and mind.
The whole idea that the minimum is what we should concentrate on is wrongheaded IMO. What is the least we need to believe to be saved? What is the least we need to do to be saved? What is the bare minimum we need to offer of ourselves?
Instead what we should be asking, as far as we can, what is the fullness of truth? How can I offer God everything that I have and am? How can I keep all his commandments? What is the maximum, the best we can offer in public worship?
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