Superiority

[JGG]

I'm saying that at certain times, under certain circumstances, killing is necessary.

I'm saying that the rules have been changed.

This I find problematic. Christians like to accuse atheists of being moral relativists. That is to say that morals are actually different across cultures. We cannot criticize another culture for doing something we find immoral because morality is relative. However, these two answers suggest moral relativism. Morals are relative to time, place and culture. You even said that morals themselves changed.

So, those who killed homosexuals were breaking the law of that country?
And you want me to say they were wrong to do so?
I'm pretty sure you know the answer to that.
I'm fairly certain that you have heard the commandment "thou shalt not kill"...and that you have also heard Jesus expound on it, saying that we are not even to be angry without a cause.

And again, I would agree with you. However, I don't see it written in my Bible that we are to pull Jews from their homes and beat them, or steal from them.
Is it in yours?

No, but again, it was acceptable for the Israelites.

Let me add here that my Dad, who was also a Christian, fought in that war. I have told elsewhere about how he was shot down, and how he led a group of POWs to safety. So, evidently, there were Christians on both sides.
Is it fair to judge them by what those others were doing?

Fair enough. But my point was not that all are guilty. Just that because there are bad points to Islam does not make it any worse than Christianity.

I begin to see the problem here.
When you say "partner", do you mean "business partner"?

Not exactly, we run a research lab together. It's our business in that it's our job.

I'm going to hazard a guess that your partner and his wife live here in America, and are not subject to Islamic laws?

Well, not America. However, we live in a more progressive country that is not subject to Islamic laws. But it wasn't so long ago that many of our progressive nations were subject to puritan "Christian" laws.

I don't see any of those rules in my Bible.
Are they in yours?

It's in theirs.

 

[FireHeart]

Perhaps, my innocent and gullible friend.
Or perhaps he has a darker reason for hiding his atheism...

I have lost count of the numbers of atheists I have met who are gay.
It isn't really so much that they don't believe in God as that they are angry with Him and rejecting Him because they feel rejected by Him and by His followers.
But a partnership with a married Muslim man? He's just begging for trouble.

lol I have been told lots of times how I have a sense of innocents of a child. But even so if he was hiding his atheism like that I wouldn't suspect it was for a darker purpose. It's never good to assume.

 

[JGG]

Why do you show yourself as "Non-Denominational"?
Why not come out and admit that you are an atheist?

I forgot about that. When I first joined here I had used a different account, and my faith icon was non-denominational. When I was told I was not a Christian I just started my current account "JGG", rather than change it again so soon. Eventually I changed it to atheist.

When the big changeover happened last month my two accounts were merged, and it kept the non-denominational in there. It had said atheist for years. I didn't even notice until a couple of days ago, and now I need a mod to change it, and I just hate dealing with them for any reason. So, I'm putting up with it until I have to deal with a mod for some other reason.

That should be momentarily...

 

[JGG]

I'm going to ask you again...when you speak of your Muslim partner who is married, are you referring to a business partner?
Or is there another meaning to the term, as I suspect?

My Muslim partner is my research partner. We run a lab and publish papers together, and have for several years. He is also a good friend.

I was married. Now I'm a widower.

 

[TheBarrd]

lol I have been told lots of times how I have a sense of innocents of a child. But even so if he was hiding his atheism like that I wouldn't suspect it was for a darker purpose. It's never good to assume.

True. I could be wrong, I suppose.
However, I began to suspect that was the problem early on, when he spoke of being "shoved into a box".
I can't think of many groups who accuse Christians of shoving them into a box. And a lot of Christians are guilty of doing just that, I'm afraid.
But it was the term "partner" that really clinched it. I asked him if he meant "business partner", but he ignored the question.
I can't think of another group that habitually uses that term. I've heard bf and gf, and significant other, and then there are those who refer to their "old man" or "old lady"...but I can't remember ever having heard a straight person refer to their "other half" as their "partner". Have you?

 

[TheBarrd]

My Muslim partner is my research partner. We run a lab and publish papers together, and have for several years. He is also a good friend.

I was married. Now I'm a widower.

In that case, I apologize.
You had me thinking you were gay.
I'm still not too sure...but if you say so, I'll take your word for it.

 

[JGG]

In that case, I apologize.
You had me thinking you were gay.
I'm still not too sure...but if you say so, I'll take your word for it.

Really? I seem gay on here?

 

[FireHeart]

Really? I seem gay on here?

You didn't to me.

 

[JGG]

You didn't to me.

Not gay. I am an atheist. Which is what I meant by being shoved in a box. Of course, those are not the words I would have chosen, but again used them to mirror another poster.

 

[JGG]

So the question stands. In your opinion, why am I an atheist? Has the conversation gleaned any insights?

Do I hate God? Love Satan? Do I want to sin more? Can't accept following a God's rules?

 

[TheBarrd]

This I find problematic. Christians like to accuse atheists of being moral relativists. That is to say that morals are actually different across cultures. We cannot criticize another culture for doing something we find immoral because morality is relative. However, these two answers suggest moral relativism. Morals are relative to time, place and culture. You even said that morals themselves changed.



No, but again, it was acceptable for the Israelites.



Fair enough. But my point was not that all are guilty. Just that because there are bad points to Islam does not make it any worse than Christianity.



Not exactly, we run a research lab together. It's our business in that it's our job.



Well, not America. However, we live in a more progressive country that is not subject to Islamic laws. But it wasn't so long ago that many of our progressive nations were subject to puritan "Christian" laws.



It's in theirs.

Did you know that the Bible declares men and women to be equals?
Did you know that the wife is also equal with her husband in the marriage bed?
Did you know that the husband has an obligation to love his wife as Christ loves the church, even to the point of dying for her?
Did you know that there have been female leaders in Israel for thousands of years? Have you heard of a gal named Deborah?
Did you know that Paul actually spoke about a female apostle, saying that she was "of note among the apostles"?

Lots of folks do not know these things.
Even lots of Christians do not know them.
But I assure you...it's all in the Bible...

 

[TheBarrd]

So the question stands. In your opinion, why am I an atheist? Has the conversation gleaned any insights?

Do I hate God? Love Satan? Do I want to sin more? Can't accept following a God's rules?

I'm not sure what you are looking for here.
No one here said anything about you loving Satan or wanting to sin.
The worst thing you can say is that I mistook you for a gay person.
And again, I apologize.
You really haven't shown me much of anything...except your quick wit, which I have enjoyed.

 

[JGG]

Did you know that the Bible declares men and women to be equals?

That's not what I was taught.

Did you know that the wife is also equal with her husband in the marriage bed?

Again, not what I was taught.

Did you know that the husband has an obligation to love his wife as Christ loves the church, even to the point of dying for her?
Did you know that there have been female leaders in Israel for thousands of years? Have you heard of a gal named Deborah?
Did you know that Paul actually spoke about a female apostle, saying that she was "of note among the apostles"?

Lots of folks do not know these things.
Even lots of Christians do not know them.
But I assure you...it's all in the Bible...

This I can accept.

However, did you know that men could take many wives, but not the other way?
Wives were property to be traded to men?
Concubines were bought and sold?
Women are expected to please their masters (husband)?
Divorced women are unclean, divorced men are not?

 

[JGG]

I'm not sure what you are looking for here.
No one here said anything about you loving Satan or wanting to sin.

Nobody here. But many have. Do you believe I hate God, or am rebelling?

 

[FireHeart]

In that case, I apologize.
You had me thinking you were gay.
I'm still not too sure...but if you say so, I'll take your word for it.

Nobody here. But many have. Do you believe I hate God, or am rebelling?

I have not seen any hate for God in your words and as for rebelling I don't think that is what your doing either. I don't know the reason you became athiest but I would probably fully understand your reason from all I have seen in this life

 

[TheBarrd]

That's not what I was taught.



Again, not what I was taught.



This I can accept.

However, did you know that men could take many wives, but not the other way?
Wives were property to be traded to men?
Concubines were bought and sold?
Women are expected to please their masters (husband)?
Divorced women are unclean, divorced men are not?

Did you know that the first man in the Bible to have two wives was a murderer?
Did you know that, in Jacob's case, at least, the multiple wives thing was more their idea than his? He really only wanted the one.
Did you know that a bride price was exacted to ensure that the family would place a value on the new bride?
And did you know that, traditionally, he had to have a place for her before he could take her into his home?
Did you know that husbands were also expected to please their wives?
Did you know that Jesus says that there is only one acceptable reason for divorce, and also says that God gave that law for the hardness of men's hearts?

 

[JGG]

Did you know that the first man in the Bible to have two wives was a murderer?
Did you know that, in Jacob's case, at least, the multiple wives thing was more their idea than his? He really only wanted the one.
Did you know that a bride price was exacted to ensure that the family would place a value on the new bride?
And did you know that, traditionally, he had to have a place for her before he could take her into his home?
Did you know that husbands were also expected to please their wives?
Did you know that Jesus says that there is only one acceptable reason for divorce, and also says that God gave that law for the hardness of men's hearts?

That can all be true. But if someone reads the Bible to find reason that women are inferior they will find it.

 

[JGG]

I have not seen any hate for God in your words and as for rebelling I don't think that is what your doing either. I don't know the reason you became athiest but I would probably fully understand your reason from all I have seen in this life

Why do you think I'm not a Christian?

 

[TheBarrd]

That's not what I was taught.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus

Again, not what I was taught.

1 Corinthians 7
3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

 

[TheBarrd]

Whoever taught you evidently didn't know his Bible...