Superiority Complex.

[ephraimanesti]

Then that is just tough. You still have to wait.

MY DEAR SISTER,

God says otherwise in His Word--"Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction." (II Timothy 4:2)

The Holy Spirit says otherwise in my Heart.

Who am i going to listen to and obey? Hmmmm . . . let me think.

Look at the gospels. See whether people came to the Lord and asked him a question, or whether he went to them and imposed an answer without a question being asked.

Then go and do likewise. Don't take my word for it; look for yourself. The Lord NEVER imposes himself on anyone, and neither should we.

You perhaps forget that Jesus never spoke to an atheist. The questions He was asked came from believers. When it was a matter of sin and repentance He was usually forthright and spoke quite forcefully. Same with Peter and Paul.

All that will be imprinted on their mind is that they have just encountered yet another self centred, arrogant, presumptuous believer, who thinks that all the problems of life can be answered with trite soundbytes. They can't.

This gets tiring, my sister!

ALL of the problems of life have their answers in God's Word.

All of the problems of life stem from our sinfulness which stems from our rebellion against God's Word and Will for us which stems from our hubris and egocentrism.

The above must be pointed out--clearly, forcefully, and with Love. Anything less destroys souls. As the Lord states, "When I say to a sinful man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood." (Ezekiel 2:18)

I have already given my view on this one. It accords with that of St Francis. If our faith is not who we are, first, second and third, then our words are just so much waste of hot air.

This is true. However, in my vanity and blindness perhaps, i am deluded enough to believe that though i am a sinner, my Faith is indeed what i am--in fact ALL that i am, given that my wretched sinfulness was nailed to the Cross with my Lord and the putrid remains buried in the waters of Baptism. i am not one whit better than those i address and remonstrate with, and i think that comes across clearly to most of them and engenders a willingness to listen--if perhaps not accept. i do what i can; i do it will all the love i can muster; and i feel the results are pleasing to my Lord. That's the best i can do--first, second, and third.

We are, however, responsible for putting people off our faith by being obnoxious. A bit of self control goes a long way.

You know absolutely nothing about me--why in the world would you label me variously an "obnoxious" and "presumptuous believer" full of "trite sound bites"?

Or a better question perhaps, is why am i embarrassing myself by exhibiting such stupid defensiveness.

Got no answer to either question. Bummer!

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[JohnCR]

All of the problems of life stem from our sinfulness which stems from our rebellion against God's Word and Will for us which stems from our hubris and egocentrism.

Does that include natural disasters?

 

[JohnCR]

You know Ephraimanesti, if I believed what you believed, I probably wouldn't act any differently. Bravo for having the courage of your convictions. I mean, if I believed that people's immortal souls were at stake, I would be trying to convert as many people as I could. Hehehe, is that hypocritical?

 

[razeontherock]

Not in the least. And as for natural disasters, if you take it literally then before the flood you couldn't even get a suntan let alone sunburn. Radiation would've been completely different, and weather patterns presumably non-exist or close to it. So in the really really big picture, you might say yes natural disasters are also a result of sin.

There is of course room for an opposing point of view, and neither conclusion will affect anything any of us do in our lifetimes one iota.

 

[ephraimanesti]

Does that include natural disasters?

MY BROTHER,

Natural disasters are a consequence of a fallen world which God allows as a means for us to exercise our Love for our suffering brothers and sisters.

Parents of developmentally disabled children often report receiving the same message when they inquire of Abba as to the why of their child's disability.

"Good" and "evil" are strictly in the eye of the beholder.

ephraim

 

[ephraimanesti]

You know Ephraimanesti, if I believed what you believed, I probably wouldn't act any differently. Bravo for having the courage of your convictions. I mean, if I believed that people's immortal souls were at stake, I would be trying to convert as many people as I could. Hehehe, is that hypocritical?

God only knows, my brother.

Ask Him.

ephraim

 

[ephraimanesti]

Note how that verse refers to the 'man of God', as opposed the unbeliever. The Bible is invaluable as guidance if you already believe it, but is useless to someone who doesn't. As Catherineanne said, it is more effective to preach through actions than words.

MY BROTHER,
Actions without words are much like a movie without a soundtrack.

On the other hand, of course, words without actions are meaningless pipe-dreams.

There is a middle road between the poles which unites them into a harmonious whole.

ephraim

 

[ephraimanesti]

Not at all. If you are going to quote the Bible, it is imperative to make sure you quote it properly, and don't wander off into your own imagination.

MY DEAR SISTER,

Where have i done so? My imagination, in the past, has put me and those around me through hell for a considerable number of years. i think i have gotten pretty good at keeping the lid on that coffin. To what, exactly, are you referring?

If talking to people, you can choose to base what you say on the Bible, and you can also choose to base it on other reference points. Again, always assuming you quote them correctly.

No inconsistency at all.

Does it not depend on the topic? For example, if i was dealing with Christian beliefs with an unbeliever, i would stick to Biblical Scriptures because it is the benchmark Word from God. I would not use the Koran, even though, as a mostly plagiarized document, it repeats much of what is in the Bible and agrees with it on many points. Best to stick with the known qualities!

You are assuming that every other argument is going to contradict Scripture. Why would you think that, exactly?

Again, when discussing Christianity with non-believers, i think it is best to stick to Biblical writings because they have the reputation as THE Word of God. This is not to say that other sources don't contain much useable truth-- its just that the Bible is looked upon--even if not accepted--as the "Owner's Manual" for Christians.

You are entitled to your opinion on this one.

Thank you! Makes me feel all grown-up.

However, to me, Christ may well be the cornerstone of our faith, and indeed he is, but that does not mean that we cannot quote Gandhi, the Duke of Wellington, or the Dalai Lama if we wish to do so. A Christian quoting the Dalai Lama does not suddenly change into a Buddhist.

As was said somewhere on this Thread--"For everything there is a time." i think that when dealing with non-believers the old adage "Keep It Simple" applies. If i bombard a non-Christian with a bunch of different source materials, things tend to get tangled up and confused because it gives the impression that all sources of spiritual information are equal--in truth content, in intent, and in applicability. This is obviously not the case. Until the Bible is read and understood, the is no adequate foundation for judging the quality of other sources of spiritual information. (The Holy Spirit, of course, can guide a Christian, but a non-believer does not have that luxury.)

In other situations, i freely quote the Buddha (who, in my opinion, was a great teacher in many areas), Lao Tzu (ditto), Jerry Garcia, Sigmund Freud, and even Charles Darwin (when nobody's looking), etc., and a host of others whose opinions i enjoy and accept as true, at least in a limited sense. But even in these cases, the Bible's pronouncements trump all else.

If we are talking to those who do not understand what the Bible is, or who Christ is to us, it makes far more sense to start from where they are, rather than where they are not.

In all honesty, i have never met anyone in my wanderings who didn't know what Christians believe about the Bible and Who Jesus is to us.

Your point would be well taken in the Third World and, in fact, that is exactly what successful missionaries do to engage those they serve--they seek common ground and then build upon it. But here in the West, i think it is generally safe to cut to the chase. i've never had a "Bible? What's that?" or "Jesus? Who is that?" occur. But then perhaps i have led a sheltered life.

It has been nice talking with you. PEACE BE TO YOU AND YOUR HOUSE.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[Riski]

UK religions:

Christian 42,079,000 71.6%

71.6% may say they are Christians but how many of them are Christians? when asked by a clip board carrying questioner how many just say C of E and move on?
according to WHYCHURCH .org.uk only 15% of Christians go to church at least once a month, it would seem that the rest are not as committed Christians as they say they are.

(I dont have enough post to post links)

 

[razeontherock]

Good point Riski, polls aren't so very reliable on a subject like this. In another thread someone mentioned the news media's pronouncement of who is going to hell, and I wondered if they have a helicopter at it's gates that they're reporting from?

 

[ephraimanesti]

i would ask forgiveness from both the victims and the audience to my unwarranted argument yesterday which brought shame on my brothers and sisters, my beliefs, and my Lord.

i've been there before, done that before, been remonstrated with by the Spirit because of it before, repented before, promised to cease and desist in the future before, and failed to do so before. Not at all a good track record!

i ask God's forgiveness--AGAIN--for my sin of seeking to be right rather than seeking to be Loving, and the terrible witness that proclivity bears before non-believers.

LORD HAVE MERCY!

ephraim

 

[razeontherock]

You mean you're human? And this thread topic has a reason to exist? (LOL) Yup.

 

[sentipente]

Christians have always felt superior. It begins with their superior decision to accept Jesus Christ as Savior.

 

[razeontherock]

Welcome to the thread, but you're basing your opinion on what? (LOL)

HINT: Since it's not first-hand experience, it's assumption. Read the beginning of the thread. I lay out your flawed logic very clearly. If you have questions about that because it's not clear to you, please specify what needs clarification.

 

[sentipente]

Welcome to the thread, but you're basing your opinion on what? (LOL)

HINT: Since it's not first-hand experience, it's assumption. Read the beginning of the thread. I lay out your flawed logic very clearly. If you have questions about that because it's not clear to you, please specify what needs clarification.

If salvation is based on acceptance of Jesus Christ then anyone who chooses to accept has made a superior decision. Superiority comes with the decision. The extent to which it is expressed depends on the individual.

 

[razeontherock]

That perspective is fatally flawed. Again, please read the beginning of the thread. Clearly you haven't, as you haven't responded to it.

 

[SithDoughnut]

If salvation is based on acceptance of Jesus Christ then anyone who chooses to accept has made a superior decision. Superiority comes with the decision. The extent to which it is expressed depends on the individual.

Correct = Superior within this context, especially if it's not a definite fact that you are correct.

 

[razeontherock]

Just venting today Sir Sith, or did you have something to say? Enter whatever you knew of Grace into the mix, and your assertion falls apart.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

Thanks for all the replies. I leave the forums for a week after starting this and end up having to read 16 pages of writing...whew!

If salvation is based on acceptance of Jesus Christ then anyone who chooses to accept has made a superior decision. Superiority comes with the decision. The extent to which it is expressed depends on the individual.

This is only true if the person who chooses to believe in Jesus thinks they are 100% right. 100% conviction leads to intolerance in my experience. If you have a grey-area approach and recognize the fact that other belief systems may be valid, legitimate, possible or beneficial then it allows you to see the others perspective rather than closing your ears and yelling, "I'm right! you're wrong! I'm right! you're wrong!"

I don't think my decision is any greater than yours, in fact it may not even be objectively true. Decision does not lead to superiority, does it?

 

[SithDoughnut]

Just venting today Sir Sith, or did you have something to say? Enter whatever you knew of Grace into the mix, and your assertion falls apart.

Not venting, just pointing out that superior does not necessarily follow on from correct, because Christianity is not a definite fact, and even then it wouldn't necessarily be superior.

I still haven't managed to get you to tell me your definition on Grace, especially given that I am pretty sure that I have always used a different definition than you. The definition of grace that I have always known is similar in many ways to mercy, any chance you could tell me yours or is this going to demand a new thread?