Superiority Complex.

[hikersong]

This is only true if the person who chooses to believe in Jesus thinks they are 100% right. 100% conviction leads to intolerance in my experience. If you have a grey-area approach and recognize the fact that other belief systems may be valid, legitimate, possible or beneficial then it allows you to see the others perspective rather than closing your ears and yelling, "I'm right! you're wrong! I'm right! you're wrong!"

I don't think my decision is any greater than yours, in fact it may not even be objectively true. Decision does not lead to superiority, does it?

Well said. I agree. Even if a person does believe they have made a superior decision (one that everyone should make), simply stating that fact doesn't convince anybody or serve any purpose beyond that of a personal statement of faith.

 

[Dragons87]

Well said. I agree. Even if a person does believe they have made a superior decision (one that everyone should make), simply stating that fact doesn't convince anybody or serve any purpose beyond that of a personal statement of faith.

I suppose the issue may be viewed in at least two ways.

When I say I have made a superior decision, I can mean either that I'm made the superior decision out of the potential decisions I can make, or I have made the superior decision compared with the decisions others have made.

It's a semantic point, but one I feel is important to distinguish. Therefore, if I claim to have made a superior decision, it does not necessarily mean that I believe that the decision is one that everyone else should make...although, in the case of coming to Christ, I do believe that!

Anyway. Don't know if I have made a point or not. Haw haw.

 

[razeontherock]

This is only true if the person who chooses to believe in Jesus thinks they are 100% right. 100% conviction leads to intolerance in my experience. If you have a grey-area approach

Nonsense. your 100% conviction scenario STILL leaves out ANY opportunity for pride 100%.

Perhaps you and Sithdoughnut can discuss amongst yourselves while I'm all verklempt. And your grey area approach has NO Spirituality to it, it's purely carnally minded. Which leaves you and your Faith in grave danger.

it allows you to see the others perspective rather than closing your ears and yelling, "I'm right! you're wrong! I'm right! you're wrong!"

Kind sir, to equate this to Biblical conviction is to create a false dichotomy.

 

[razeontherock]

just pointing out that superior does not necessarily follow on from correct

What comes from Grace is the recognition that we can do NOTHING apart from Christ. Specifically so we have no reason to boast. So the whole "superior" thing has the rug pulled out from underneath it, while y'all continue to argue the point.

because Christianity is not a definite fact,

Of course it is, you've just never gone that far; but it's irrelevant to the thread.

I still haven't managed to get you to tell me your definition on Grace,

Sure you have. It's an unspeakable gift, so words will never suffice. Each person's experience with it is unique, and it's so large there may be no overlap whatsoever. Anybody that wants to see me and a few others struggle with it, I've created a thread in the deeper fellowship sub-forum. Only 75% of the brass tacks are laid out so far, and the really good stuff doesn't even start until it's all there. It's only 12 pages currently.

 

[JohnCR]

Believing your right can certainly lead to feelings that everyone else is inferior to you.

(Not sure if you're allowed to post pictures on this site, but I didn't think anyone would feel offended by this)

 

[razeontherock]

Believing your right can certainly lead to feelings that everyone else is inferior to you.

If you actually read my posts, you'll see Christianity comes complete with it's own solution to that. No way to miss it. Granted, folks ignore it, but only at their own peril.

 

[JohnCR]

If you actually read my posts, you'll see Christianity comes complete with it's own solution to that. No way to miss it. Granted, folks ignore it, but only at their own peril.

I read everyone's posts. I'm not exactly sure what solution you've offered to counter the inevitable feelings of superiority people feel over their opposition. I'm sure almost everyone has thought at some point "how can they be so blind?" Believing you have a superior viewpoint leads to believing your opposition is lacking something in order to see the "truth." Whether it be intelligence or faith or something completely different, you believe that you have something superior to them. You have something that they lack. It's not hard to see how that can lead to thinking that I am superior because I am more intelligent or faithful.

When I say "you," I mean anybody. Not referring to you in particular, Raze.

Are pictures allowed? I'll take it down if it's against the rules. I just thought it made the point better than I could explain in words.

 

[Wicked Willow]

If you actually read my posts, you'll see Christianity comes complete with it's own solution to that. No way to miss it. Granted, folks ignore it, but only at their own peril.

Playing devil's advocate here: believing yourself to be the humble spokesperson of divinity can result in feelings of superiority, even if you believe that this superiority is not your own, and see yourself as a humble and inconsequential mouthpiece. After all, you promote the message and interests of the Most High.

 

[Dragons87]

I read everyone's posts. I'm not exactly sure what solution you've offered to counter the inevitable feelings of superiority people feel over their opposition. I'm sure almost everyone has thought at some point "how can they be so blind?" Believing you have a superior viewpoint leads to believing your opposition is lacking something in order to see the "truth." Whether it be intelligence or faith or something completely different, you believe that you have something superior to them. You have something that they lack. It's not hard to see how that can lead to thinking that I am superior because I am more intelligent or faithful.

When I say "you," I mean anybody. Not referring to you in particular, Raze.

Are pictures allowed? I'll take it down if it's against the rules. I just thought it made the point better than I could explain in words.

The only problem with this post, as I see it, is that you think your way of thinking is superior to raze's, or else you wouldn't be opposing his view.

Yes, and I believe I saw something in your post that you probably didn't realise. Am I superior to you? You bet I am!

I'm just joking. My whole point is that we, as in your picture, all feel that we are in some way "superior" to the next person; that is why we want to contribute to see if we can influence others to modify their point of views to include our own points.

There's nothing wrong with that, I don't think. It's only problematic when one thinks that absolutely everything one says or has is superior and inferior to no one else in any aspect. I don't think anyone is saying that (even though some might be acting as if they were).

 

[JohnCR]

The only problem with this post, as I see it, is that you think your way of thinking is superior to raze's, or else you wouldn't be opposing his view.

Yes, and I believe I saw something in your post that you probably didn't realise. Am I superior to you? You bet I am!

I'm just joking. My whole point is that we, as in your picture, all feel that we are in some way "superior" to the next person; that is why we want to contribute to see if we can influence others to modify their point of views to include our own points.

There's nothing wrong with that, I don't think. It's only problematic when one thinks that absolutely everything one says or has is superior and inferior to no one else in any aspect. I don't think anyone is saying that (even though some might be acting as if they were).

Funny. Yes, I am not immune to feelings of superiority over people of other religious beliefs. I just try to remind myself that a big factor is the region and family we are raised into, something that is random chance and doesn't make anyone superior.

I should ask though, what would give more of a superiority complex: an atheist believing he is intelligent for seeing through society's "superstitions" or a Christian believing that the all-powerful creator of the universe hand picked him to live in the eternal kingdom of Heaven?

 

[razeontherock]

Answering John's question, the Christian has no excuse for anything other than humility. To be accepted we have to recognize we deserve nothing other than the utter destruction Jesus received to become the Christ. That's the very basis of our acceptance; my Rock.

Playing devil's advocate here: believing yourself to be the humble spokesperson of divinity can result in feelings of superiority, even if you believe that this superiority is not your own, and see yourself as a humble and inconsequential mouthpiece. After all, you promote the message and interests of the Most High.

Very true! And exactly why the OT has G-d's people chastise themselves by sitting in sackloth and ashes. I sure am glad that in Christ all the noxious physical details are removed out of my way, so I can proceed unhindered and directly to the Spiritual Truths underlying them. As can you! In the new Covenant, the equivalent is to "rend your heart and not your garments."

Apparently I'm not good enough at that yet, as He *helps* bring that about further ...

 

[Dragons87]

Funny. Yes, I am not immune to feelings of superiority over people of other religious beliefs. I just try to remind myself that a big factor is the region and family we are raised into, something that is random chance and doesn't make anyone superior.

I should ask though, what would give more of a superiority complex: an atheist believing he is intelligent for seeing through society's "superstitions" or a Christian believing that the all-powerful creator of the universe hand picked him to live in the eternal kingdom of Heaven?

A Christian has to, or is even forced to, admit that he is inferior to God and others. One can never be "superior" enough to enter the Kingdom of Heaven unless one sees himself to be inferior to God and other people.

I pick just one teaching by Jesus to make my point:

"Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave—just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." Matthew 20:26-28

Being picked for the Kingdom of God is a wholly undeserved honour and blessing bestowed upon a person who admits his/her own inferiority. Unless one sees that one is inferior, one will not be picked for the Kingdom of God.

I hope I've gotten my point across quite clearly...:o You may see how I have freely admitted my inferiority to God and to everyone else in my testimony, "for when I am weak, then I am strong" (2 Corinthians 12:10).

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

Nonsense. your 100% conviction scenario STILL leaves out ANY opportunity for pride 100%.

Could you explain what you mean here? Are you saying that if you have 100% conviction of something that has nothing to do with you being prideful? Your sentence phrasing was just a little weird, not sure if I got the meaning.

And your grey area approach has NO Spirituality to it, it's purely carnally minded. Which leaves you and your Faith in grave danger.

To each their own. I feel like I have a deeply spiritual relationship with God. I "BELIEVE" in God, I do not think it is NECESSARILY ultimate truth. Belief does not equal objective truth. I love God, I love my spiritual life, despite its eccentricity to "normal" Christian thought.

Kind sir, to equate this to Biblical conviction is to create a false dichotomy.

I never said that believing in the Bible makes you close-minded to other perspectives. If you think it is the ONLY source of ALL truth EVER and ALL other sources (spiritual or not) are irrelevant, THEN I would be skeptical to your acceptance of people of different belief systems. That, to me, would be 100% conviction.


PS. This whole discussion reminds me of a quote:

"We would all like to be humble....but what if nobody noticed?"

 

[razeontherock]

Could you explain what you mean here? Are you saying that if you have 100% conviction of something that has nothing to do with you being prideful?

You are a believer, right? On what basis?

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

That my man, is Christianity. Just like I've been saying all along, weird phrasing or not, boasting bragging feeling superior about it is COMPLETELY removed. Just like our sin, nailed to His cross. Failing to figure that out creates all sorts of problems. (Like creating our own eccentric thoughts maybe?)

Also please note our Brit Brother's post above yours addresses it well.

I never said that believing in the Bible makes you close-minded to other perspectives. If you think it is the ONLY source of ALL truth EVER and ALL other sources (spiritual or not) are irrelevant, THEN I would be skeptical to your acceptance of people of different belief systems. That, to me, would be 100% conviction.

Like I said previously, you've just created a false dichotomy. 100% conviction has nothing to do w/ making anybody or anything else irrelevant. (Course if everybody realized that we would've never had the Crusades or inquisition, WWII, etc., etc.

 

[JohnCR]

Answering John's question, the Christian has no excuse for anything other than humility. To be accepted we have to recognize we deserve nothing other than the utter destruction Jesus received to become the Christ. That's the very basis of our acceptance; my Rock.

I can't say I've met any Christians in my daily life that follow that philosophy. The main thing I notice is many religious people I meet believe they are morally superior to other groups. There's a holier-than-thou attitude. If they are being taught that Christians are on the side of righteousness, then what does that say about the rest of us? Of course people will have a superiority complex when dealing with non-Christians because they believe they are on God's side and we are not. It doesn't matter if they are humble towards God if they aren't humble when dealing with other people.

Perhaps if what you say is the "true" Christian philosophy, then churches should start actually teaching more humility. I can't speak for all churches, but the few churches I attended when I was Christian failed to do that. The churches I went to basically taught that we were God's A-team.

 

[Riski]

All religions give believers a superiority complex because they have chosen or been given the one true religion, (that's you)
sadly for the believers of all the other religions they are all wrong. (that's you)

 

[ephraimanesti]

I can't say I've met any Christians in my daily life that follow that philosophy. The main thing I notice is many religious people I meet believe they are morally superior to other groups. There's a holier-than-thou attitude. If they are being taught that Christians are on the side of righteousness, then what does that say about the rest of us? Of course people will have a superiority complex when dealing with non-Christians because they believe they are on God's side and we are not. It doesn't matter if they are humble towards God if they aren't humble when dealing with other people.

Perhaps if what you say is the "true" Christian philosophy, then churches should start actually teaching more humility. I can't speak for all churches, but the few churches I attended when I was Christian failed to do that. The churches I went to basically taught that we were God's A-team.

MY DEAR BROTHER,

Humility and knowing/proclaiming/doing God's revealed Will are not contradictory or self-exclusionary ideals--they follow one from the other. The reason why atheists find this problematic is because, for an atheist, there are no moral absolutes--no higher Authority whose Will is Law in the universe He created.

A Christian--by definition "A follower of Christ--is an adherent to God's Laws for His universe as taught and demonstrated by His Son. i can see the temptation of those who neither believe that God exists or believe that absolute Morality--binding upon all--exists, could wrongfully judge those who have opposing views as having a "superiority complex." This, however, is a matter of perception (and, perhaps, even a few unacknowledged twinges of guilt) and not an accurate assessment of the situation.

In "modern" thinking, one person's situational moral standards are equally valid with those of another and "must" be respected as such. But in a God-governed Universe where, in fact, no such ideals of "valid personal moralities" have any basis in the reality of the situation, to assert the Truth is not evidence of a belief in the "superiority" of the holder of one belief system over the un-belief system of the other; it is evidence of Love and Compassion of Christians for those who are misguided and fatally mistaken in their beliefs, and a desire to save them from the consequences of their misunderstanding of reality and disbelief in the Truth.

This Truth MUST be told--whether or not it is accepted. Why? Because God said to do so. He also clearly reminds us of our humble status in the whole process, as Paul relates, "For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, AND OURSELVES AS YOUR SERVANTS FOR JESUS' SAKE. . . .BUT WE HAVE THIS TREASURE IN JARS OF CLAY TO SHOW THAT THIS ALL-SURPASSING POWER IS FROM GOD AND NOT FROM US." (II Corinthians 4:5;7)

What you describe in your above assessment of this Belief in Ultimates from your position of non-belief in either God or His Commandments by which Creation is ruled and judged, is similar to a drowning man yelling at those trying to throw him life perservers, "Hey, why are you acting like you are better than me?" The reply? "We are in no way "better than you, we are just standing on firmer ground."

As to how this Truth pertains to our country, John Adams, our second President, explains, "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." It seems that we are learning this Truth the hard way, as we speak.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[ephraimanesti]

Playing devil's advocate here: believing yourself to be the humble spokesperson of divinity can result in feelings of superiority, even if you believe that this superiority is not your own, and see yourself as a humble and inconsequential mouthpiece. After all, you promote the message and interests of the Most High.

MY DEAR SISTER,

Is our confusion over the meaning and application of the word "superiority?"

i wholly and most emphatically hold that belief in God and all this implies, is a "superior" position than the disbelief in God and all this disbelief implies--in that i hold the former to be True and the latter a serious error.

Differences in belief in this matter not withstanding, there is not the slightest difference in our intrinsic value as human beings. However, i would indeed grant that Belief in God is far Superior to dis-belief.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[scraparcs]

All religions give believers a superiority complex because they have chosen or been given the one true religion, (that's you)
sadly for the believers of all the other religions they are all wrong. (that's you)

If you (in a general sense) didn't think your religious beliefs were right and others wrong (or at least not as right), you would change religious beliefs.

This also seems to include holding no specific religious belief. (None are right, they're all wrong, so having no belief is right.)

 

[ephraimanesti]

All religions give believers a superiority complex because they have chosen or been given the one true religion, (that's you)
sadly for the believers of all the other religions they are all wrong. (that's you)

MY FRIEND,

i don't believe that this idea is REALLY true, given that the "one true religion" is readily available to ALL who desire it, and there is no sense of an intrinsically higher personal value being the criteria for God randomly selecting who goes and who stays. There is absolutely no basis for any feelings of personal "superiority." The "superiority" lies in the Belief, not in the personal holding the belief.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim