Superiority Complex.

[xDenax]

So you see the problem. Also in your previous post you mentioned them not recognizing that G-d loves His children equally. Again, for a Christian to smugly think they are loved by G-d because they're special is a trap they've fallen into, and they're at great risk.

I've seen it not even so much that God loves them more but that they are "right", they are enlightened, they know more than the rest of us, they have the answers, they "have the keys to the kingdom", they "win in the end", etc. They gloat and in light of the fact they think everyone else is going to burn in hell for eternity - it's disgusting. They should be more concerned and less hateful about their superior positions.

 

[scraparcs]

There's a third and a fourth aspect of this that you're failing to account for. One is you don't really know how they feel, you only know your own perception. As big as that is, far greater is the realization the believer has to endure of exactly what they're facing, which shakes one to the core and needs to be tended to. Perhaps you've heard the story of Lazarus and the rich man?

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

-1 Corinthians 13:1-3

Then again, who am I to judge either?

 

[razeontherock]

I've heard the words that come out of their mouth and it's been bad enough to nearly bring me to tears many times.

I'm sorry you've had to endure that. Personally, my natural reaction is more likely to result in bashing some heads, no jawbone of an ass necessary. Viking blood and all. I have managed to refrain, but I'd be lying if I said it hasn't come close. Cutting my hair didn't help, either

That's actually the most recent stage of my growth, is Him being able to use that to good effect. It's amazing to watch it unfold! Hasn't happened in the context under discussion here though, and frankly I hope it doesn't. People like that are just plain no fun, huh?

 

[razeontherock]

if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

You failed to place that in context. That part where I said the believer gets shaken to the core when they realize what they're facing? Yeah, that would be Love.

 

[ephraimanesti]

My disbelief does affect my perspective, but it doesn't cloud it as completely as you are suggesting. I understand that I can't hold you accountable for all Christians, but some have a tendency to think they are more special than non-Christians. How do I know this? I know because these same Christians have treated non-Christians like myself like they are the Devil's children and not God's. It often is followed by severe shunning.

MY BROTHER,

The "No True Scotsman Fallacy" does not apply when dealing with the appellation "Christian." Our Lord set out a very detailed description in Scripture of what a TRUE believer should look like--basically an image of Himself. He is the benchmark; He is the Measuring Stick; He is the Role Model.

Scripture states, "BY THEIR FRUITS YOU WILL KNOW THEM." (Matthew 7:20) So, it spite of the fact is has become a sneered-at cliche, "What Would Jesus Do" is an excellent tool for revealing the true identity of one calling himself a Christian. Ask yourself, "Would Jesus say of do this?" If the answer is no, then the so-called "christian" is a poseur.

Jesus never shunned anyone; never looked upon any of us sinners as "the devil's children", and He related to all--including those who were nailing Him to the Cross--and beloved children of His Abba.

"Christian" has a very precise definition, and it has NOTHING to do with how one spends their Sunday mornings--it has EVERYTHING to do with their manifestation of Christ-likeness. Read the Gospels; get a mental picture in your mind--and heart--of Who and What Jesus was, and use that as your point of reference as to who is and who isn't a "Christian." To paraphrase--"You can't judge of book by its title!"

(P.S. Don't go in the other direction and evaluate a person's Christ-likeness by momentary lapses. We are all a work in progress; we all have frequent lapses in our personal areas of personal weakness; and we are all people on the way. With a little patient observation, you will be able to spot the difference between who and what a person IS as opposed to the occasional aberrations and deviations which occur within that person--and ALL people, from time to time. "Bad hair days" are temporary glitches, not enduring character traits or, as A.A. puts it, "We are seeking progress, not perfection.")

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[razeontherock]

it's disgusting. They should be more concerned and less hateful about their superior positions.

*Ahem* Any "superior position" occurs when the picture in Revelation of 24 elders on 24 thrones is fulfilled. As far as I can tell, that hasn't happened yet. And such a restrictive number indicates none of us can look forward to that part anyway.

 

[JohnCR]

MY BROTHER,

The "No True Scotsman Fallacy" does not apply when dealing with the appellation "Christian." Our Lord set out a very detailed description in Scripture of what a TRUE believer should look like--basically an image of Himself. He is the benchmark; He is the Measuring Stick; He is the Role Model.

Scripture states, "BY THEIR FRUITS YOU WILL KNOW THEM." (Matthew 7:20) So, it spite of the fact is has become a sneered-at cliche, "What Would Jesus Do" is an excellent tool for revealing the true identity of one calling himself a Christian. Ask yourself, "Would Jesus say of do this?" If the answer is no, then the so-called "christian" is a poseur.

Jesus never shunned anyone; never looked upon any of us sinners as "the devil's children", and He related to all--including those who were nailing Him to the Cross--and beloved children of His Abba.

"Christian" has a very precise definition, and it has NOTHING to do with how one spends their Sunday mornings--it has EVERYTHING to do with their manifestation of Christ-likeness. Read the Gospels; get a mental picture in your mind--and heart--of Who and What Jesus was, and use that as your point of reference as to who is and who isn't a "Christian." To paraphrase--"You can't judge of book by its title!"

(P.S. Don't go in the other direction and evaluate a person's Christ-likeness by momentary lapses. We are all a work in progress; we all have frequent lapses in our personal areas of personal weakness; and we are all people on the way. With a little patient observation, you will be able to spot the difference between who and what a person IS as opposed to the occasional aberrations and deviations which occur within that person--and ALL people, from time to time. "Bad hair days" are temporary glitches, not enduring character traits or, as A.A. puts it, "We are seeking progress, not perfection.")

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

If there are so many "fake" Christians out there, then why don't the "true" Christians stand up and confront them? It makes me wonder if "true" Christians believe a "fake" Christian is better than no Christian.

Sometimes I wish I could go around and pick out "fake" atheists. Whenever an atheist embarrasses the rest of us, I'll declare HE'S NOT A TRUE ATHEIST! He doesn't follow the example set by Sam Harris!

 

[ephraimanesti]

I've seen it not even so much that God loves them more but that they are "right", they are enlightened, they know more than the rest of us, they have the answers, they "have the keys to the kingdom", they "win in the end", etc. They gloat and in light of the fact they think everyone else is going to burn in hell for eternity - it's disgusting. They should be more concerned and less hateful about their superior positions.

MY SISTER--and the rest of you,

Those who gloat and judge and condemn and willfully cause pain to others

ARE NOT CHRISTIANS.​

Why is this fact not understood? If i came up to you and stated, "i am a Doctor, please lie down and let me perform brain surgery" would you accept his claim at face value?

"Christian" means Christ-like. If a person is not Christ-like and struggling to become more so day by day, HE/SHE IS, BY DEFINITION, NOT A "CHRISTIAN.​

"

Why is this a hard concept to grasp? In no other area would someone's self-appellation be accepted IN SPITE OF ALL THE EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY which you are all describing.

PLEASE THINK THIS THROUGH AND LOOK AT THE ILLOGICAL ASSUMPTIONS BEING MADE!

Jesus deserves better than this superficial negative assessment of those purporting to be His "followers!"

ephraim

 

[Catherineanne]

Agreed. My bad!

ephraim

Other way round, E. David Brod is in, as is all other opinion. If it is daft then people will soon realise. Remember this one:

Hear O Israel, the Lord thy God is one God. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy mind, with all thy soul and with all thy strength.

Quoting DB is part of your loving God with your mind. And that is always preferable to switching it off.

 

[Catherineanne]

My intended meaning is not that Christians are compelled to quote the Bible whenever they engage in moral debate, but that it is normal to expect that Christians engaged in a moral debate will quote the Bible; it is quite likely that they will. So complaining about it, as several posters are doing, seems a bit weird.

It all made sense in Chinese, I swear.

As I see it, the complaint is not about quoting Scripture, but about using it in order to persuade non Christians to adopt a Christian viewpoint.

Perhaps you should reconsider your pacifist stance?

I say that not only as a Christian, but as a volunteer soldier.

Thanks for the invitation, but I think it is unlikely that I would reconsider. I understand why armies exist, and I understand why wars exist, but I do not think they serve any meaningful purpose whatever.

As Tolstoy said (paraphrase as I don't have the book to hand), at some point the fighting has to stop, and people have to talk. And when we reach that point, we have usually forgotten why we started to fight in the first place.

Surely, the ability to make quotations roll off the tongue demonstrates a wide reading and perhaps a good memory. It is the interpretation and application of the quotation that requires imagination.

Given that, a Christian may interpret, explain and apply quotes, even only from the Bible, with much imagination and freshness.

Don't forget that the word of God is living and active (Heb 4:12). It's not supposed to be just some words we can recite when we want to win a debate, but:

"Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."

The Bible only has authority to Christians, so it is pointless quoting it to non Christians in order to persuade them of anything. If we are just being informative, then that is fine.

Either way, there are plenty of other sources of inspiration for Christians apart from the Scriptures.

 

[ephraimanesti]

If there are so many "fake" Christians out there, then why don't the "true" Christians stand up and confront them? It makes me wonder if "true" Christians believe a "fake" Christian" is better than no Christian.

MY BROTHER,

Absolutely not! "Fake" christians are, by their heinous actions and works, crucifying our Lord all over again and heaping disdain and ridicule upon Him every bit as horrible as what was done to Him by the Romans. i believe that the majority of atheists are so because of their interactions with those purporting to be "christians."

These poseurs are, indeed, being confronted by those truly seeking to follow our Lord as His disciples, and i see--at least in the Churches i visit or attend--a wave of cleansing occurring which hopefully will bear good fruit in the future. There are, in the last few years, also many wonderful books being published on the difference between being a Christian and being a poseur. One that happens to pop into mind is THE SCANDAL OF THE EVANGELICAL CONSCIENCE by Ronald J. Sider. (i would be more than happy to give you some titles if your interested.)

Incidentally, i believe that as it becomes more and more uncomfortable to be a Christian as our society turns more and more away from God, that the poseurs will drop away like lice--just as happened in Communist Russia, China, etc. Once there is a price to be payed--like putting your life and livelihood on the line, they will quickly disappear like smoke in the wind.

Sometimes I wish I could go around and pick out "fake" atheists. Whenever an atheist embarrasses the rest of us, I'll declare HE'S NOT A TRUE ATHEIST! He doesn't follow the example set by Sam Harris!

What's a "fake atheist?"--someone who prays when no one is looking? (Just kidding.)

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[razeontherock]

Good point E, and John might find it encouraging to know G-d has primarily used me to "reach out" within the Church for the past decade or so. It's even a common saying "don't you just love it when a Pastor gets saved?"

In fact it's so bad that the last time I really saw G-d "move" in a Church it was over 10 years ago, and a missionary, from India. Let that sink in ...

(BTW, when you have a guest praying for a congregation of 100+ individually by name, that's what you call "living right."

 

[Catherineanne]

MY DEAR SISTER,

i have found that if the Truth is spoken with Love and Compassion, it is always received in the spirit in which it was imparted.

This is just an excuse for imposing our moral values and opinions on other people, who neither ask for them nor want them. And this in turn is the exact opposite of love. It is quite simply NOT what we are called to do.

It may or may not be accepted or acted upon, but it is almost always chalked up as a sign of Love and concern--which it is--and responded to accordingly.

This is the Gospel Truth.

I am sure you would not pass off your own opinion under the guise of Scripture, would you? If this is 'Gospel Truth', that must equate to your using the EXACT words of Scripture.

So, kindly provide the Chapter and verse that you are quoting in saying this, or admit that it is not in fact the Gospel, but your own opinion of it.

Yes, St. Paul wasn't one to mince words and probably didn't own a part of velvet gloves--but, you know, he brought a multitude of souls into the Kingdom.

Indeed he did, and he did it by never forgetting that love comes first, second and third in our faith.

If we evangelise without faith, we are wasting our time. If we preach without love we are wasting our time. If we even raise the dead without love we are wasting our time.

 

[Catherineanne]

God says otherwise in His Word--"Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction." (II Timothy 4:2)

'Be prepared' is not the same thing as 'be verbose'.

You perhaps forget that Jesus never spoke to an atheist. The questions He was asked came from believers. When it was a matter of sin and repentance He was usually forthright and spoke quite forcefully. Same with Peter and Paul.

That is just silly. We have no idea whether he spoke to atheists as we understand the term or not. As I am sure you are aware, it is perfectly possible to follow a religion without believing in it, and this goes for paganism and Judaism as much as for any other faith.

What we do know is that 'atheist' in the Ancient world was not the same thing as 'atheist' today. The early Christians were persecuted for being atheists, because they did not believe in the pagan gods, and refused to worship them. Therefore, by the values of the Roman Empire in which he lived, not only was Christ himself an atheist, so were all other Jews.

ALL of the problems of life have their answers in God's Word.

God's Word is Christ, not the Bible. He does indeed have any answer we need, but the Scriptures, not so much.

 

[ephraimanesti]

Peace.

 

[Catherineanne]

"Good" and "evil" are strictly in the eye of the beholder.

What? Where on earth does the Bible say this?

It is true that great blessing can be found, even in the midst of the greatest difficulties of life. It is not true that therefore good and evil are subjective.

 

[ephraimanesti]

Peace.

 

[ephraimanesti]

PEACE!

 

[Catherineanne]

71.6% may say they are Christians but how many of them are Christians? when asked by a clip board carrying questioner how many just say C of E and move on?
according to WHYCHURCH .org.uk only 15% of Christians go to church at least once a month, it would seem that the rest are not as committed Christians as they say they are.

(I dont have enough post to post links)

Well, if you want my opinion, probably all 71.6%.

Call me an optimist.

I don't attend church regularly because I am disabled. Doesn't have any bearing whatever on my commitment to my faith.

Meanwhile, Christian to me is an absolute, not a relative. Therefore, if you are a Christian, then you are a Christian. No gradation.

 

[ephraimanesti]

'Be prepared' is not the same thing as 'be verbose'.



That is just silly. We have no idea whether he spoke to atheists as we understand the term or not. As I am sure you are aware, it is perfectly possible to follow a religion without believing in it, and this goes for paganism and Judaism as much as for any other faith.

What we do know is that 'atheist' in the Ancient world was not the same thing as 'atheist' today. The early Christians were persecuted for being atheists, because they did not believe in the pagan gods, and refused to worship them. Therefore, by the values of the Roman Empire in which he lived, not only was Christ himself an atheist, so were all other Jews.



God's Word is Christ, not the Bible. He does indeed have any answer we need, but the Scriptures, not so much.

PEACE.