Super quick question, I need an answer pronto

[JJM]

I've been told that the Orthodox do not accept Mormon 'Baptisms'.
Now I realise that there are perhaps differences in theology regarding how sacraments function if one is not EO, what I'm hoping we can keep it to is: If someone were raised Mormon had been 'baptised' by them and then wanted to become Orthodox would you guys baptise this person or not?

To see the thread this is coming from from go here
http://www.christianforums.com/t7626286/

 

[Antony in Tx]

The short answer is yes. The only slightly longer answer is, that is up to the discretion of the Bishop involved.

 

[Ioannis]

I don't believe that Mormons have the Trinitarian baptism, meaning the Orthodox Church couldn't accept it.

 

[JJM]

According to this the following is what is to be said 'Being commissioned by Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit' although technically speaking instead of 'Spirit' 'Ghost' is used. I think the descepancy is caused by the fact that the article was orginally written in Italian.

Though the Catholic Church apparently holds they mean something different by the terms.

 

[JJM]

The short answer is yes. The only slightly longer answer is, that is up to the discretion of the Bishop involved.

Is this simply because they are not trinitarian? Western Churches in theory have to accept non trinitarian baptism as far as I can tell. This means that they have to hold that the group has such different theology that their words no longer mean the same thing anymore. However I see a lot of the Orthodox Churches claiming that they will not accept non-Trinitarian baptism. That is should not have accepted the baptisms of modalist or Arians as far as I can tell.

*I should note by 'non trinitarian baptism' I don't mean 'baptisms' not using the trinitarian formula but baptisms by people who do not beleive in the Trinity*

 

[Protoevangel]

The short answer is yes. The only slightly longer answer is, that is up to the discretion of the Bishop involved.

This.


The Mormons to not have an Orthodox understanding of the Trinity, so even if they use the correct "form" (which I do not believe they do - they use a single immersion, not triple), they do not even pray to the true God... But instead to a created God... a "god" of flesh and bone.

 

[JJM]

This.


The Mormons to not have an Orthodox understanding of the Trinity, so even if they use the correct "form" (which I do not believe they do - they use a single immersion, not triple), they do not even pray to the true God... But instead to a created God... a "god" of flesh and bone.

Triple immersion is necessary? Hmm. . . don't know that I have ever heard that before.

 

[Kristos]

I think it's more about having a proper understanding of the Trinity than using some magic sequence of words - of course if we have the proper understanding we would use the proper words, but just the word themselves do not make a proper theology.

I think if there was any question, most bishops would be conservative and require an Orthodox baptism. The extreme view that all must be re-baptized has been addressed through history and the canons.

 

[Ioannis]

Very true...the understanding of the Trinity is extremely important and the Mormon view is...interesting.

 

[Protoevangel]

Triple immersion is necessary? Hmm. . . don't know that I have ever heard that before.

Well, yea, it's "necessary", but as Kristos mentioned, it's secondary to correct doctrine. But honestly, if the doctrine is pure, then the form will most likely be as well.

 

[Catherineanne]

I've been told that the Orthodox do not accept Mormon 'Baptisms'.
Now I realise that there are perhaps differences in theology regarding how sacraments function if one is not EO, what I'm hoping we can keep it to is: If someone were raised Mormon had been 'baptised' by them and then wanted to become Orthodox would you guys baptise this person or not?

To see the thread this is coming from from go here
http://www.christianforums.com/t7626286/

I don't know about the Orthodox Church, but I would be rather surprised if the Anglican Church accepted Mormon baptism as valid. I don't think my priest would.

 

[Catherineanne]

Is this simply because they are not trinitarian? Western Churches in theory have to accept non trinitarian baptism as far as I can tell.

I don't think so. There are very clear criteria for Christian baptism, and non trinitarians are unlikely to be able to meet those criteria.

This may not apply in Orthodoxy, but in Anglicanism in theory even a non Christian can carry out a valid Christian baptism as long as the wording and use of water etc is appropriate, but this would have to be with some intention of carrying out a valid Christian baptism, as for example by a midwife to a child in mortal danger, and it is only valid in situations where no priest is available or likely to become available in time.

Someone being baptised in a Mormon church would not be covered by this condition, because their situation is not one of extremis, but of choosing something other than a Nicene view of Christianity. Therefore, valid baptism and confirmation would most likely be called for before reception of the other Sacraments.

 

[JJM]

This may not apply in Orthodoxy, but in Anglicanism in theory even a non Christian can carry out a valid Christian baptism as long as the wording and use of water etc is appropriate, but this would have to be with some intention of carrying out a valid Christian baptism, as for example by a midwife to a child in mortal danger, and it is only valid in situations where no priest is available or likely to become available in time.

I was of the impression that without an extreme case it would only be ilicit not invalid.

 

[buzuxi02]

Orthodoxy holds the proper form of baptism to be triple immersion in each name of the Trinity. Mormons would have to be baptised.

 

[ArmyMatt]

If someone were raised Mormon had been 'baptised' by them and then wanted to become Orthodox would you guys baptise this person or not?

we would, because while they use the names, their understanding is way off.

in Anglicanism in theory even a non Christian can carry out a valid Christian baptism as long as the wording and use of water etc is appropriate, but this would have to be with some intention of carrying out a valid Christian baptism, as for example by a midwife to a child in mortal danger, and it is only valid in situations where no priest is available or likely to become available in time.

for us, only one in the Body of Christ can baptize.

 

[Antony in Tx]

Might I recommend reading the OrthodoxWiki page on Mormonism. It paints a very clear picture of how the Orthodox view the LDS, and why they would need to be baptised.